Long - time for a change?

[Snowball]

Wyc, Hoop, I think you're missing the point a little.


Never in my wildest dreams would I be comparing Long to Thierry Henry or Alan Shearer as "equals". The question was asked, do some goal-scorers blossom late and the answer is yes. Despite this being Long's sixth season he is still a fair way off 9,000 minutes (100 full games)

Just checked and he's on 93.7 x 90, almost there if you include his games for Ireland


But Henry and Shearer are two of the greatest-ever strikers, one world-class, and one debatably world-class.


I have always believed that Long has the potential to be a top striker. I still think that.
Agree with Hoop it might not be the main goal-getter, but a very good and important
player. Knowing our luck it'll be for another club

[Hoop Blah]

But you're comparing Henry's socring rate as a world class forward to a time when he was playing as a winger. Do you not see the difference there?

He came to Arsenal, took the pretty standard season to adjust to the football here as well as a new position and then took off.

Shearer, as I said, is a much more interesting comparison. He was a young man leading the line in a poor'ish side and didn't score that many goals. He's record obviously improved as he got older and played in better teams. My point is that, unlike Long and Church, he was a prolific scorer at youth level so he was always a scorer but took a while to take that into senior football, which isn't a surprise when you consider the level he was playing at and the team he started in.

I didn't think you were suggesting Long was anywhere near Shearer or Henry's quality....not even you would go that far away from reality.

[Scarface]

Yet another draw and yet again Shane Long costs us 2 points, that's 10 points in the last 5 games.

Snowball, even you can't defend the bloke when he misses 5 glorious chances in one game? Before you start I know one was flagged offside.

[facaldaqui]

Yet another draw and yet again Shane Long costs us 2 points, that's 10 points in the last 5 games.

Harsh. It's a team game. Looking at it another way, Long was the closest member of the team to winning us three points. Criticism of Long is valid, but what did Hunt do on Saturday?

[facaldaqui]

I think Long is a similar case to Darius Henderson. We brought Henderson up, but he was a frustrating player to watch and I was glad when we let him go instead of building around him. He's done reasonably since, but I've never wished we had him back.

[facaldaqui]

On the question of duds who become prolific, maybe Shearer is a fair shout--he never did have notable ball skills but he gradually made himself into a top striker. Henry, I think, went from a winger to a striker. What about the Championship, though? Did any Kevin Lisbie types emerge as prolific strikers after several seasons as plodders? Tommy Smith did have his one good season of high-scoring at Watford after being fairly low-scoring up till then, but he's the closest to an example I can think of. Luke Varney has now got into the premier, but I always rated Varney, who on his day has a shot on him that Shane can only dream of--such as that one with which he lacerated us at The Valley.

[pea]

Yet another draw and yet again Shane Long costs us 2 points, that's 10 points in the last 5 games.

Harsh. It's a team game. Looking at it another way, Long was the closest member of the team to winning us three points. Criticism of Long is valid, but what did Hunt do on Saturday?

To be fair though, the team put it on Longs head time after time, several times with the goal at his mercy. I think Hunt was the only player who really should have buried one of his opportunities but Long could and probably should have had a hattrick with the chances he had.

[brendywendy]

at leats hes had chances - nhunt was totally invisible for the last 180 minutes of football

[Snowball]

To be fair though, the team put it on Longs head time after time, several times with the goal at his mercy. I think Hunt was the only player who really should have buried one of his opportunities but Long could and probably should have had a hattrick with the chances he had.

I love reading stuff like this. "the team put it on Longs head time after time, several times with the goal at his mercy..."

He had one shot went just wide of the post, another shot hit the post (that's two SHOTS)

He had one header over the bar, and I presume one wide. I'm told he had four chances, all missed.

But this is "headers, time after time," after time, after time, no doubt. TWO.

[Snowball]

Forgetting Long for a minute.

Hunt wasn't exactly brilliant v Leeds and Brendy says he was invisible v Coventry too.

Church has looked lost for a few games now.

And we had the surprise dropping of Zurab.




Is there something wrong in the dressing room or am I reading too much into this?

[Stranded]

at leats hes had chances - nhunt was totally invisible for the last 180 minutes of football

Apart from when Long stole in front of the better placed Hunt to power a header wide you mean

[Snowball]

at leats hes had chances - nhunt was totally invisible for the last 180 minutes of football

Apart from when Long stole in front of the better placed Hunt to power a header wide you mean

Proof that Hunt was invisible. Long didn't see him

[Hoop Blah]

Talk about knee jerk rections and unsubstantiated opinions...

We're not quite good enough and on a bad run, of course players will have a bad few games, that's what you get from the quality of players we have, inconsistency.

McDermott, like all other managers, has his favourite players who he plays through thick and thin. Mills and Long appear to be two of those, Kishanisvili isn't.

I do think McDermott might've missed a trick with certain selections which mean there is a lack of healthy competiton within the squad, but I wouldn't goons far as to say there a problem in the dressing room, other than some of the players in it being crap that is.

[Snowball]

Not knee-jerking, Hoop. I'm not even thinking there IS a problem there.

Just saying that there's a peculiar "flatness" at the moment, maybe just due to missing chances, OR...?

[Snowball]

While poor old Longy gets his weekly beating up, here's all players.

At the moment the TEAM is converting about 1 in ten shots/headers

That is probably about 1 in ten chances with the few that have been crowded out

09.50 Average

Here are the rest. Raiak is a bit of a false one, but..

Why McAnuff bothers to shoot is beyond me... ditto Howard. There are a LOT of players firing blanks

Total Shots/Headers then Goals, then 1 in X

03 1 1 in 03.00 Rasiak
13 4 1 in 03.25 Harte
13 4 1 in 03.25 Mills
12 2 1 in 06.00 Gylfi
19 3 1 in 06.33 Hunt
28 4 1 in 07.00 Kebe
08 1 1 in 08.00 HRK
08 1 1 in 08.00 Pearce
26 3 1 in 08.67 Church
39 4 1 in 09.75 Long
10 1 1 in 10.00 Antonio
23 2 1 in 11.50 Karacan
33 1 1 in 33.00 McAnuff <<<<<<<<<<<<< That's a lot of wasted chances

23 0 00.00 Howard <<<<<<<<<<<<< That's a lot of wasted chances
03 0 00.00 Tabb
03 0 00.00 Gunnar
02 0 00.00 Zurab
01 0 00.00 Williams
01 0 00.00 Stretch

[floyd__streete]

Just saying that there's a peculiar "flatness" at the moment, maybe just due to missing chances, OR...?

Are we talking about Long here again? Perhaps his inherrent sh*tness is getting to him.

[Hoop Blah]

While poor old Longy gets his weekly beating up, here's all players.

At the moment the TEAM is converting about 1 in ten shots/headers

That is probably about 1 in ten chances with the few that have been crowded out

09.50 Average

Here are the rest. Raiak is a bit of a false one, but..

Why McAnuff bothers to shoot is beyond me... ditto Howard. There are a LOT of players firing blanks

Total Shots/Headers then Goals, then 1 in X

03 1 1 in 03.00 Rasiak
13 4 1 in 03.25 Harte
13 4 1 in 03.25 Mills
12 2 1 in 06.00 Gylfi
19 3 1 in 06.33 Hunt
28 4 1 in 07.00 Kebe
08 1 1 in 08.00 HRK
08 1 1 in 08.00 Pearce
26 3 1 in 08.67 Church
39 4 1 in 09.75 Long
10 1 1 in 10.00 Antonio
23 2 1 in 11.50 Karacan
33 1 1 in 33.00 McAnuff <<<<<<<<<<<<< That's a lot of wasted chances

23 0 00.00 Howard <<<<<<<<<<<<< That's a lot of wasted chances
03 0 00.00 Tabb
03 0 00.00 Gunnar
02 0 00.00 Zurab
01 0 00.00 Williams
01 0 00.00 Stretch

But none of them is our first choice centre forward who's missed some absolute sitters and, rightly or wrongly, is judged on his goal return because he's our main centre forward!

Stats just can't show you the ease or importance of those chances or the situation in the game that they arose. When you accept that you'll realise why Long gets the grief he does.

[facaldaqui]

Is there something wrong in the dressing room or am I reading too much into this?

If McDermott is saying the same things in the dressing room that he is to the press (hopefully not) then I do see a problem. McDermott has been saying all season (not just the last five as he admitted on Saturday) that we deserved to win games that we drew or lost. This started during our opening weak spell, where McD claimed we should have won most of the games, including the one at Portsmouth. He also has been saying "we are almost there" since the start of the season.

If the players believe this then that could be a problem, as it was under Rodgers, when we were playing at the bottom of the league yet believing we were good enough to be at the top. The belief that we are better than we are could be a source of complacency among the players. I can understand that McDermott would want to encourage and support his team, but they need to fear for their places too.

[Snowball]

Stats just can't show you the ease or importance of those chances or the situation in the game that they arose. When you accept that you'll realise why Long gets the grief he does.

Like Karacan's open goals? Like Hunt passing to the keeper v Leeds?

[Yorkshire Royal]

He's just a bit shit really.