Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[From Despair To Where?]

From our experienced earlier this season, not paying the players results in points deductions, not paying HMRC results in a winding up petitions.

[Dirk Gently]

When is the next HMRC bill due?

I assume this is for employer tax and Ni contributions so if he doesn't pay the players then no tax and NI is due.
So in theory if they didn't pay any wages but instead gave all the players and staff an interest free loan, they might be able to defer tax and NI... could then write the loans off and claim tax relief on them, although technically the players would still be entitled to backdated wages.

None of this will work in practice, but it's great bad accounting theory which I find fascinating.

Also, is the penalty worse for paying players late or paying the tax man late? - if more severe for tax then they might want to hold back player wages until they have enough funds for both.

Loans to staff in lieu of pay are still seen as taxable benefits and HMRC would be down like a ton of bricks on this sort of thing. Not just having to pay NI & PAYE, but probably also prosecution.

This is exactly the type of scheme that got Jimmy Carr into so much trouble - money in goes to offshore company (in his case IoM), and he doesn't take salary, he takes "Director's Loans" from that company - which are never paid off so no tax is ever due on them...

And the process for "Director's Loans" is much more friendly than for employee loans.

[Elm Park Kid]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

[PieEater]

That aligns with the what STAR said in the EFL meeting

ST noted sales in the January window are funding the Club, and that the original expectation was that this would fund to April but may now only cover up to, or part of, March

[Orion1871]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

Not exactly a revelation. Is anyone expecting us not to get the two points suspended taken from us?

[Armadillo Roadkill]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

Not exactly a revelation. Is anyone expecting us not to get the two points suspended taken from us?

Maybe hoping we don't get further points deducted rather than expecting. And even if we get a further deduction, hoping that we have enough points to avoid being relegated by it.

It makes sense to me to try to remain positive. This is all hard enough to cope with without giving up hope.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

It could be as soon as March if as STAR says the money runs out this month. The next tax bill is due 2 weeks Friday.

[Stranded]

It doesn't change much really, we are reliant on Dai deciding it is in his best interest to fund the club for the last 2 months of the season.

If he doesn't do so, then we will get a bare minimum 2pt deduction, if not more. The Commission knew this when they handed down the verdict, hence no point giving us 4 off as there won't be time to go through the process of deducting more when we eventually miss some form of payment.

[WestYorksRoyal]

If the money is running out a month sooner than planned, could SCL step in one last time? It sounds like late April was always the timescale Howe had in mind.

How very painful this all is. I just dream of against either Northampton, Lincoln or Blackpool we can celebrate a new owner and L1 survival. What a day that would be, full of hope for next season.

[Elm Park Kid]

It doesn't change much really, we are reliant on Dai deciding it is in his best interest to fund the club for the last 2 months of the season.

If he doesn't do so, then we will get a bare minimum 2pt deduction, if not more. The Commission knew this when they handed down the verdict, hence no point giving us 4 off as there won't be time to go through the process of deducting more when we eventually miss some form of payment.

If we do find a buyer then they are allowed to fund us in the interim period from exclusivity to EFL approval/final completion.

[Snowflake Royal]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

I guess it's useful to have someone itk confirm this, but it has to be what everyone expected right?

When the the 2(2) deduction was announced we were all just like 'well the other two are off within a month'

[Snowflake Royal]

I just got some troubling information concerning our finances. Basically, if Dai doesn't agree to the sale very soon then we'll be getting the 2-point suspended deduction in April. Even if he does it depends on whether the new owner is willing to give us money before the sale is finalised.

Not exactly a revelation. Is anyone expecting us not to get the two points suspended taken from us?

Maybe hoping we don't get further points deducted rather than expecting. And even if we get a further deduction, hoping that we have enough points to avoid being relegated by it.

It makes sense to me to try to remain positive. This is all hard enough to cope with without giving up hope.

Definitely finding it easier having given up any real hope about two and a half months ago.

[morganb]

STAR update meeting with Nigel Howe. Not so positive today - things moving along in the background but we are fighting against time. We have a shortfall as expected this month and everyone at the club is working hard considering all funding options.

https://twitter.com/STARReading/status/ ... tu2PQ&s=19

[windermereROYAL]

Who could blame the players if they go on strike if they don`t get paid this month, I reckon the latest deduction is a given.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Am I right there's a cut off to apply deductions for new offences? So even if we are late with everything 2 more points is the limit this season? Obviously we don't want to start next season on negative points and the risk is ultimately liquidation.

Anybody telling Dai how serious this is? This will all make buyers less likely to meet his asking price, and worst case scenario he's left with white elephant real estate assets with no team to use them.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Am I right there's a cut off to apply deductions for new offences? So even if we are late with everything 2 more points is the limit this season? Obviously we don't want to start next season on negative points and the risk is ultimately liquidation.

Anybody telling Dai how serious this is? This will all make buyers less likely to meet his asking price, and worst case scenario he's left with white elephant real estate assets with no team to use them.

That's been said on here that there's a cut off for new offences at some point this month so if that's right the max is -2 for this season as not paying wages on time is technically a new offence.

To avoid the -2 we have to get to exclusivity by 22nd March or maybe SCL will help out again.

This is all on basis of course that Dai can't, or won't, plug the funding gap.

[WestYorksRoyal]

It just needs one buyer show some urgency and force the issue. The company I work for has done a few acquisitions in the past few years, and they generally move slowly until somebody with authority decides they want it to be done, at which point it gets done. You may not get the perfect deal, but you can do due diligence and procrastinate in perpetuity without setting yourself a deadline.

We can all see what is for sale. A loss making football club in L1 with a good academy and real estate assets. What are buyers trying to achieve with 2 months due diligence?

[PieEater]

It just needs one buyer show some urgency and force the issue. The company I work for has done a few acquisitions in the past few years, and they generally move slowly until somebody with authority decides they want it to be done, at which point it gets done. You may not get the perfect deal, but you can do due diligence and procrastinate in perpetuity without setting yourself a deadline.

We can all see what is for sale. A loss making football club in L1 with a good academy and real estate assets. What are buyers trying to achieve with 2 months due diligence?

Who owns what and what they are buying, and where the money needs to go to run it. Not getting the car park will undoubtedly be a surprise but it shouldn't take this long, just PM Ian.

[morganb]

Assuming the issue is with paying the players, could the players offer to play for a reduced wage for a couple of months? I'm sure none of them are pennyless at the moment and they can be reimbursed by the new owner when they come in. It has been reported previously that Selles and Bowen have delayed their wage payments before.

Could we send back the loan players early or terminate contracts of non-playing players (Dean, Hutchinson) just to save a few pennies?

Also, have seen mention of SCL bailing us out again. Surely we have other minor sponsors who could also chip in?

[Elm Park Kid]

In terms of points deduction, it won't make any difference to whether the players agree to a wage deferral or not.

It's going to be hard to get anyone to invest in the club whilst Dai appears to be acting in bad faith.