by Sanguine » 28 Mar 2024 09:06
by BRO_BOT » 28 Mar 2024 09:22
SanguineBRO_BOTURZZZZ
Agreed with most of that
As someone who isn’t always fond of Southgate, and some of his decisions, I do still however find the general overall reaction to him as utter bizarre. You only have to point to the difference in results prior to his appointment and through his appointment to realise how well he’s done. I’m not sure he can take us to the next level (I.e winning a tournament) however he’s done a grand job of setting the foundations. Can see this being his last major tournament and I think it may be the right time
He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
by Sanguine » 28 Mar 2024 09:40
by BRO_BOT » 28 Mar 2024 10:06
Sanguine We probably don't need to play any matches then in June. Just award the title to France.
England only played Croatia in the 2018 World Cup semi finals because Croatia topped a group that included Argentina, and because Russia beat Spain in R16. The Ukraine game at the Euros only happened because Spain couldn't top their group over Sweden. There's a real cognitive dissonance on this - it isn't 'a lucky draw' to avoid Spain at the Euros, for example, if Spain couldn't beat Sweden or Poland in the group stages, and only won one game in the tournament in 90 minutes.
by Sanguine » 28 Mar 2024 10:11
by BRO_BOT » 28 Mar 2024 13:18
Sanguine Again, you are defining 'easier' by ranking, when one of the higher ranked sides, Spain, only avoided England because they couldn't beat Sweden or Poland in the group stage. If they couldn't beat Sweden or Poland, why would they have been tougher opposition for England?
by BRO_BOT » 28 Mar 2024 13:23
by Snowflake Royal » 30 Mar 2024 13:33
SanguineBRO_BOTURZZZZ
Agreed with most of that
As someone who isn’t always fond of Southgate, and some of his decisions, I do still however find the general overall reaction to him as utter bizarre. You only have to point to the difference in results prior to his appointment and through his appointment to realise how well he’s done. I’m not sure he can take us to the next level (I.e winning a tournament) however he’s done a grand job of setting the foundations. Can see this being his last major tournament and I think it may be the right time
He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
by Sutekh » 30 Mar 2024 16:46
Snowflake RoyalSanguineBRO_BOT
He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
Come on, you surely can't dispute that first run to the semi's was about as easy a route as you could get.
by Snowflake Royal » 30 Mar 2024 16:59
SutekhSnowflake RoyalSanguine
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
Come on, you surely can't dispute that first run to the semi's was about as easy a route as you could get.
it's not GS' fault England got an easier route (we all want an easier route in finals) but it is his fault that they still managed to **** it up.
by Sutekh » 30 Mar 2024 17:04
Snowflake RoyalSutekhSnowflake Royal Come on, you surely can't dispute that first run to the semi's was about as easy a route as you could get.
it's not GS' fault England got an easier route (we all want an easier route in finals) but it is his fault that they still managed to **** it up.
I'm not one of his critics. He's done a bang up job. Yes England lost to the first decent team that played that tournament, but he's followed it up with a Finals win over Germnay, lesser or not, made a final and another deep run.
I don’t recall the routes after that first tournament being particularly easy, and plenty of England managers have failed on easy routes, but pretending Southgate didn’t get an easy finals route at least to start with just undermines the person making the argument he's one of England's greatest managers. Which he simply is. His success certainly didn’t start out with any golden generation, and he did better than the last golden generation.
by Royal Rother » 30 Mar 2024 19:40
SutekhSnowflake RoyalSutekh
it's not GS' fault England got an easier route (we all want an easier route in finals) but it is his fault that they still managed to **** it up.
I'm not one of his critics. He's done a bang up job. Yes England lost to the first decent team that played that tournament, but he's followed it up with a Finals win over Germnay, lesser or not, made a final and another deep run.
I don’t recall the routes after that first tournament being particularly easy, and plenty of England managers have failed on easy routes, but pretending Southgate didn’t get an easy finals route at least to start with just undermines the person making the argument he's one of England's greatest managers. Which he simply is. His success certainly didn’t start out with any golden generation, and he did better than the last golden generation.
Would agree with that, one of those who is fairly hopeless at club management but with different model that international management brings is quite superb. He just lacks that "killer" instinct when it's needed but hopefully he can find something when it matters in Germany this summer.
by BRO_BOT » 30 Mar 2024 21:21
by Sutekh » 31 Mar 2024 08:08
Royal RotherSutekhSnowflake Royal I'm not one of his critics. He's done a bang up job. Yes England lost to the first decent team that played that tournament, but he's followed it up with a Finals win over Germnay, lesser or not, made a final and another deep run.
I don’t recall the routes after that first tournament being particularly easy, and plenty of England managers have failed on easy routes, but pretending Southgate didn’t get an easy finals route at least to start with just undermines the person making the argument he's one of England's greatest managers. Which he simply is. His success certainly didn’t start out with any golden generation, and he did better than the last golden generation.
Would agree with that, one of those who is fairly hopeless at club management but with different model that international management brings is quite superb. He just lacks that "killer" instinct when it's needed but hopefully he can find something when it matters in Germany this summer.
In the last few weeks you’ve called him a pillock, a numpty, over-cautious and said that England will never win anything with him in charge.
And now you call him “quite superb”!!
by bcubed » 31 Mar 2024 10:09
BRO_BOT Remember that time GS made that gr8 tactical change that really changed the game in our favour?
nah...me neither!
by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2024 10:56
by bcubed » 31 Mar 2024 11:35
by BRO_BOT » 31 Mar 2024 17:26
Snowflake Royal With a 62% win rate, he doesn't often need to make tactical changes, because he's set thevteam up right from the start.
by Sanguine » 02 Apr 2024 09:24
Snowflake RoyalSanguineBRO_BOT
He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
Come on, you surely can't dispute that first run to the semi's was about as easy a route as you could get.
by URZZZZ » 02 Apr 2024 10:09
SanguineSnowflake RoyalSanguine
Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?
Come on, you surely can't dispute that first run to the semi's was about as easy a route as you could get.
England played Sweden in the QFs essentially because Germany lost to South Korea in the group stage. I don't buy the 'easy route' stuff. If you don't play someone because they've already gone out to a crap side, then on what basis would they be stiffer opposition?
I also find the 'went out to the first decent team they faced' stuff really dull. That's actually what happens to most teams in every tournament. Or teams loser to lesser sides. Take that same 2018 World Cup. Brazil beat Costa Rica, Serbia and Mexico, and then lost to Belgium. Spain won their group but only beat Iran, and then lost to Russia. Argentina beat Nigeria, drew with Iceland, and then lost to France in R16.
And separately actually, I'd say this, notionally 'weaker' draws? Bring it on. In 2010 we got a very, very good Germany in R16. 2014 we got Italy and Uruguay in our group and didn't get out of it. And then we get an apparently 'easier' draw in 2018, and some fans feel entitled enough to say that we 'should' have reached only our second World Cup final ever. Does my head in, tbh.
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