What If

[Huntley & Palmer]

Top 4 anyone?

That, quite frankly, is laughable

Really, why? a win against watford and if Arse and Pool had not done the double over us how close would we be?

If Liverpool had fielded their reserve side (like they did in their game against Fulham) we would have beaten them with the performance we put in at the mad stad this season.

We could have won the league if we beat all the teams in front of us. I am rather disappointed

[Cookie]

If my auntie had bollox she'd be my uncle.

[Royal Rother]

H&P, would I be correct in my vague recollection that you were predicting likely relegation for Reading at the start of the season?

[RoyalBird]

Sorry, but I don't see why most people reckon Convey would make a big difference from Stephen Hunt this season. While Convey didn't do much wrong, he didn't do that much to think 'Wow he had an awesome match today' when he did play in the matches in Premiership, compared to his performances in the Championship when everyone was impressed by him most matches. Stephen Hunt has showed he can be a regular in the premiership through his grit and determination, and not the quality Convey has. It maybe different next season when everyone's expecting loads from Hunt and not much from Convey but I can't see much difference in our league position now because Convey was unfit for most of the season.

[RG30]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

The target next season should and will be get 40 points asap, then see where we can go from there.

[The 17 Bus]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

The target next season should and will be get 40 points asap, then see where we can go from there.

It is not so long ago that Leeds thought they would never fall, Chelsea are there due to a Russians money, Spurs could def be in with a shout, and IMHO would be higher had they not had all the UEFA cup games to play.

Also is it really a top 4, Liverpool and Arsenal are as far from Chelsea as we are from them, so you might say they will never win the title.

[RG30]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

The target next season should and will be get 40 points asap, then see where we can go from there.

It is not so long ago that Leeds thought they would never fall, Chelsea are there due to a Russians money, Spurs could def be in with a shout, and IMHO would be higher had they not had all the UEFA cup games to play.

So the fact that Chelsea finished 4th before Roman's money is irrelevant then? Spurs will never be a top 4 club, and that was summed up by they're failure to hold onto Michael Carrick.

[The 17 Bus]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

The target next season should and will be get 40 points asap, then see where we can go from there.

It is not so long ago that Leeds thought they would never fall, Chelsea are there due to a Russians money, Spurs could def be in with a shout, and IMHO would be higher had they not had all the UEFA cup games to play.

So the fact that Chelsea finished 4th before Roman's money is irrelevant then? Spurs will never be a top 4 club, and that was summed up by they're failure to hold onto Michael Carrick.

No but it does not mean that they are there for eternity, all sorts happens in football, I even remember Man U in the second tier. But for Roman they could have gone the way of Leeds,
from Wikipedia

In June 2003 he became the owner of the companies that control Chelsea Football Club in the United Kingdom. He had, apparently, investigated the possibility of purchasing several other clubs before deciding on Chelsea, who were financially vulnerable at the time.

[One Beer is never enough.]

Sorry, but I don't see why most people reckon Convey would make a big difference from Stephen Hunt this season. While Convey didn't do much wrong, he didn't do that much to think 'Wow he had an awesome match today' when he did play in the matches in Premiership, compared to his performances in the Championship when everyone was impressed by him most matches. Stephen Hunt has showed he can be a regular in the premiership through his grit and determination, and not the quality Convey has. It maybe different next season when everyone's expecting loads from Hunt and not much from Convey but I can't see much difference in our league position now because Convey was unfit for most of the season.

Possibly because he had been carrying an injury from the world cup..... hence the gist of the question at the start, What if .... they had all been FIT throughout the season.

[Behindu]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

.

I suspect that is the sort of quote that will come back to haunt you....

Whilst I'd agree that short term the game is so heavily rigged that for anyone else to finish in the top 4 will be a huge achievement I also think it is near enough certain that in the mid term (say 5 years) the group will either change or expand.

There is already a danger of Arsenal hitting the rocks if Wenger decides that the sacking of Dein undermines his position. Arsenal must be the best example of a one man club around !
As and when either Mouriniho or Abrahamovic go then Chelsea may find things tough and who can predict the effect of Fergie finally retiring - the last time Man Utd tried to replace a figurehead of his stature it took them a long, long time to get it right.

With huge sums of money coming into other clubs it is possible that Villa (for example) may bridge the gap and make it a group of 5.

It is undoubtably harder now than it was 20 years ago for a 'smaller' club to make it to the top, but to say the top 4 will 'never' change just doesn;t seem plausible.

[RG30]

Even Michael Owen admitted it on "The Game" podcast yesterday that the top 4 are the top 4, and for clubs like Newcastle, Spurs and Everton to break in is virtually a near impossible job.

[Huntley & Palmer]

H&P, would I be correct in my vague recollection that you were predicting likely relegation for Reading at the start of the season?

In my vague recollection, probably. I was of the viewpoint that if we stayed up then I would be happy but based on the signings going into the season and then the game at Wigan that we would really struggle. I don't see this as negative, I don't think anyone can honestly say that we were definitely going to stay up pre season and do so well placing wise.

[Behindu]

Even Michael Owen admitted it on "The Game" podcast yesterday that the top 4 are the top 4, and for clubs like Newcastle, Spurs and Everton to break in is virtually a near impossible job.

Despite the fact that it isn't true (excpet in the short term ?)

Do you not think the scenarios that would mean one or more of the Top 4 sliding are plausible ?

Or that massive investment such as is already coming in to clubs outside the Top 4 will make a big difference ?

I'm not convinced Michael Owen is such a great witness for the prosecution to be honest - on a par with Beckham in terms of spouting cliches....

[Stranded]

Even Michael Owen admitted it on "The Game" podcast yesterday that the top 4 are the top 4, and for clubs like Newcastle, Spurs and Everton to break in is virtually a near impossible job.

At the moment, yes - over the next 5/10 years, no.

[Huntley & Palmer]

LOL at those who believe Top 4 could be a realistic aim. The top 4 will never change, it's only a matter of who finishes where amongst that mini league.

.

I suspect that is the sort of quote that will come back to haunt you....

Whilst I'd agree that short term the game is so heavily rigged that for anyone else to finish in the top 4 will be a huge achievement I also think it is near enough certain that in the mid term (say 5 years) the group will either change or expand.

There is already a danger of Arsenal hitting the rocks if Wenger decides that the sacking of Dein undermines his position. Arsenal must be the best example of a one man club around !
As and when either Mouriniho or Abrahamovic go then Chelsea may find things tough and who can predict the effect of Fergie finally retiring - the last time Man Utd tried to replace a figurehead of his stature it took them a long, long time to get it right.

With huge sums of money coming into other clubs it is possible that Villa (for example) may bridge the gap and make it a group of 5.

It is undoubtably harder now than it was 20 years ago for a 'smaller' club to make it to the top, but to say the top 4 will 'never' change just doesn;t seem plausible.

I don't think it will haunt anyone, it's spot on in my opinion. The current top two are the richest clubs in the world, they continually increase their profits and even with buyouts of other clubs around them will still retain this title. Arsenal and Liverpool will finally have the investment backing that they need to keep up with Utd, they already have the brand and tradition. All this extra money is pretty irrelevant, as it just means that everyone moves up a gear in spending or gets left behind. This means that the current top four have even more money to entice the best players from Europe and lower Premiership clubs to join them.

As pointed out by RG30, Spurs could not keep hold of Carrick and Spurs have one of the richest boards in Europe (ENIC) backing them. Playing for any of the current top four is the pinnacle of a players career in England, there is not a chance in hell of Villa or Everton or Bolton or anyone else gatecrashing the party unless a foreign backer decides to spend £500 million on the squad and a world class manager in a few seasons

[Royal Rother]

H&P, would I be correct in my vague recollection that you were predicting likely relegation for Reading at the start of the season?

In my vague recollection, probably. I was of the viewpoint that if we stayed up then I would be happy but based on the signings going into the season and then the game at Wigan that we would really struggle. I don't see this as negative, I don't think anyone can honestly say that we were definitely going to stay up pre season and do so well placing wise.

I am not suggesting you were negative, merely pointing out that we have already exceeded your expectations (probably your wildest dreams) so saying that "There was not/is not a cat in hell's chance of us challenging the top four for the foreseeable..." is wrong.

We probably won't of course, but there is a chance that we can continue to prove the doubters wrong. Someone, some day will break the mould and the refreshing values and style that Reading have brought to The Premiership this season mean that we are one of the possible, if somewhat unlikely, candidates.

[lovetoscore]

The one player we have missed is Little-absolute class.We need quality cover for him as Seol and Oster not fit to clean his boots. Hunty has done well and I dont think Convey would have made much difference but at least we have 2 reasonable left sided midfield players.

I dont rate bikey at all as a cb but hes a possibility as central midfield cover. Duberry as been excellent as cover for Sonks

We are going to need to quality central midfielders and right midfield cover for next year

[Royal Rother]

To suggest the Top 4 have an unbreakable hold on those positions because of their wealth is just naivety and stupidity of the highest order combined. IMHO.

[Behindu]

Spurs sold Carrick because United offered a crazy sum for him. I don;t think that suggests they have no chance of breaking into the top 4 at some time in the future. They seem to be quite capable of keeping Berbatov...

You seem to ignore the fact that any of the top 4 could disintegrate. You are totally wrong about Chelsea being one of the richest 2 clubs in the world, they aren;t. they have a very rich owner. As soon as he decides to walk away then their finances look very weak. We also know Man United have huge debts as part of the takeover and whilst the Glazers seem to have got the formula right it would only take a poor season forpanic to set in. Imagine if Ronaldho and Rooney got crocked early next season - all of a sudden an early CL exit and an iffy league season and they would be in trouble.

There is no doubt that the Top 4 have an (unfair) advantage and I beleive the PL rules need changing to at least make things more even (not that it will happen...). But I do think it is very short sighted to suggest that for ever and ever there will only be a top 4 and no one can leave or join that group.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Surely it all comes down to the quality of your squad though? Which in reality means one hell of a scouting system that can find players before any of the big clubs can or a stupid amount of riches. A squad reaches a peak and then cannot go any further without continuous investment which always sees players of a higher calibre coming in, just look at any of those that have broken the mould and made the top four in the last few seasons. They don't have the money to continue investing.

Everton have a £12 million purchase option on Fernandes who has looked a level above most players at Everton, Moyes has already said they do not see enough value in that to spend it and the player will probably now end up at a club who can. These are the sort of players that teams like Everton need to have to continue stepping up a level, instead they give Alan Stubbs and Carsley one year extensions in case Moyes can't sign the players he needs.