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woody61 · by **woody61** » 22 May 2007 15:25

Behindu
Biscuit Because Switzerland is just a mish-mash of 'Cantons' filled with people speaking 4 different languages. It's not a country as such, more a land populated by disparate peoples who are simply artificially stuck together by money!

Like all the other federal countries in the world then - like the USA, Germany, Australia....

Much looser - it's a confederation, with relatively little power ceded to Berne from the cantons.

brendywendy · by **brendywendy** » 22 May 2007 15:38

this thread should be preserved in perpetuity

i learn another interesting thing everytime i log on!

Fat_Septic · by **Fat_Septic** » 23 May 2007 13:11

As long as we're completely off football and onto politics and the politics of race: does any European country have an elected official who is of non-european background, higher, say than a member of parliament?

Just curious

Deadlock · by **Deadlock** » 23 May 2007 14:18

David Lammy and Parmjit Dhanda? Though Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Departments of Culture, Media and Sport or Education and Skills respectively isn't that much higher than a plain MP.

Hampshire Royal · by **Hampshire Royal** » 23 May 2007 14:23

Keith Vaz - Minister of State for Europe

Paul Boateng - Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Minister of State for Home Affairs

brendywendy · by **brendywendy** » 23 May 2007 14:26

Hampshire Royal Keith Vaz - Minister of State for Europe

Paul Boateng - Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Minister of State for Home Affairs

surely their background is british anyway?or were they born elsewhere?

Fat_Septic · by **Fat_Septic** » 23 May 2007 14:50

Their background can be British, I was just curious as to how ready Europeans are to accept Persons of Color at a high level of government. I wasn't surprised to know that England has some. Would be more surprised to see Germany or France achieve that.

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 23 May 2007 14:54

Fat_Septic Their background can be British, I was just curious as to how ready Europeans are to accept Persons of Color at a high level of government. I wasn't surprised to know that England has some. Would be more surprised to see Germany or France achieve that.

I don't think France has any, and I'm fairly sure Italy doesn't. Can easily check the Italian one.

Fat_Septic · by **Fat_Septic** » 23 May 2007 15:12

I always caught quite a lot of stick from my Continental friends back in the 70s and 80s about "racist America", but honestly, having travelled extensively across Europe for the past twenty years - other than England - I'm amazed at how much more ingrained racism is in Europe.

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 23 May 2007 15:40

Fat_Septic I always caught quite a lot of stick from my Continental friends back in the 70s and 80s about "racist America", but honestly, having travelled extensively across Europe for the past twenty years - other than England - I'm amazed at how much more ingrained racism is in Europe.

At the time of the riots in France last year? two years ago? I suggested that they were their equivalent of the Brixton riots we had in the 1980s.

brendywendy · by **brendywendy** » 23 May 2007 15:44

Fat_Septic Their background can be British, I was just curious as to how ready Europeans are to accept Persons of Color at a high level of government. I wasn't surprised to know that England has some. Would be more surprised to see Germany or France achieve that.

aaahhhh i see your point now

well it would be no surprise to see that the Uk is the only truly multicutural country in europe

Behindu · by **Behindu** » 23 May 2007 15:51

Isn't Sarkozy half Jewish and half Portugese or something ?

Peter Hain is South African.

Although by 'non European' did you mean black ?

The USA has had black non Americans in high office (Colin Powell), although IIRC he wasn't elected, he was appointed

Fat_Septic · by **Fat_Septic** » 23 May 2007 16:04

Behindu Isn't Sarkozy half Jewish and half Portugese or something ?

Peter Hain is South African.

Although by 'non European' did you mean black ?

The USA has had black non Americans in high office (Colin Powell), although IIRC he wasn't elected, he was appointed

Yes, black or North African/Arab.

Colin Powell was one for the US as was/is Condaleeza Rice. Obama running a strong candidacy for president.

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 23 May 2007 16:07

Isn't Sarkozy half Jewish and half Portugese or something ?

His full name is the quite magnificent Sarkozy de Nagy-Bocsa. With some squiggles over the letters. His dad was low ranking central European (specifically Hungarian) aristocracy. His mother was a Jew - probably Sephardic.

woody61 · by **woody61** » 23 May 2007 16:09

brendywendy
Hampshire Royal Keith Vaz - Minister of State for Europe

Paul Boateng - Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Minister of State for Home Affairs

surely their background is british anyway?or were they born elsewhere?

Boateng was, I think, born in Ghana.

brendywendy · by **brendywendy** » 23 May 2007 16:10

Behindu Isn't Sarkozy half Jewish and half Portugese or something ?

Peter Hain is South African.

Although by 'non European' did you mean black ?

The USA has had black non Americans in high office (Colin Powell), although IIRC he wasn't elected, he was appointed

i thought judaism is a religion, not a race

and i thought he was making a point about our backward european cousins!

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 23 May 2007 16:16

Judaism is one of only two religions protected by the UK laws for race and ethnicity.

brendywendy · by **brendywendy** » 23 May 2007 16:23

papereyes Judaism is one of only two religions protected by the UK laws for race and ethnicity.

then the law is an ass!
whats the other?

seems a bit mental, i dont see why they need extra protection compared to other religions

RoyalChicagoFC · by **RoyalChicagoFC** » 23 May 2007 16:32

Behindu The USA has had black non Americans in high office (Colin Powell), although IIRC he wasn't elected, he was appointed

Correct, although he was fourth in the line of presidential succession in his capacity as Secretary of State, as his own successor Connddolleezzaa Rice is these days.

Oh, and Colin is a native-born U.S. citizen and therefore was eligible to ascend to the presidency in accordance with the rules of succession. Same goes for Condi.

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 23 May 2007 16:32

brendywendy
papereyes Judaism is one of only two religions protected by the UK laws for race and ethnicity.

then the law is an ass!
whats the other?

seems a bit mental, i dont see why they need extra protection compared to other religions

Its because they're considered a separate ethnic grouping on the grounds of their race (iirc, you are born Jewish in a way tha you are not born Christian). Oh, and there may just be some historical precedent. Who knows.

As far as I was aware, and this may have changed, Jews and Sikhs were considered separate ethnic groups, whereas, for example, Muslims and Hindus were not.

This may have changed recently. I don't think it has.

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