Are Reading really this bad?

[Platypuss]

a: What about my first point?

b: Infrastructure spending is obviously still relevant when considering whether Mr Mad is in grow or maintain mode.

[Uke]

a. Coppell does say three signings per year but doesn't define expensive - Cisse, Fae, +1 in Jan?

b. Agreed, but could be considered a more 'tangible' expression of ambition compared to say older grounds and facilities at other 'bigger' clubs. Players like shiny cars so would probably like shiny facilities

[floyd__streete]

Some of the self-congratulatory postings on page 8 look even more ridiculous based on another error-ridden display today.

[Platypuss]

a. Coppell does say three signings per year but doesn't define expensive - Cisse, Fae, +1 in Jan?

Cisse?

b. Agreed, but could be considered a more 'tangible' expression of ambition compared to say older grounds and facilities at other 'bigger' clubs. Players like shiny cars so would probably like shiny facilities

I don't follow you here, apologies.

[Uke]

a. Coppell does say three signings per year but doesn't define expensive - Cisse, Fae, +1 in Jan?

Cisse?

b. Agreed, but could be considered a more 'tangible' expression of ambition compared to say older grounds and facilities at other 'bigger' clubs. Players like shiny cars so would probably like shiny facilities

I don't follow you here, apologies.

I didn't say what is defined as expensive...

New facilities probably look better to a footballing, bling led, mind

[seahawk10]

Some of the self-congratulatory postings on page 8 look even more ridiculous based on another error-ridden display today.

Not much of a break with the next three fixtures. I still believe we can and will be staying up but it will be a battle. We won't be 'safely' mid-table for some time. We will have to scratch and claw and fight our way out of the bottom five. We might even drop as low as 18th, but in the end we will make it and hopefully the lessons learned will help us stay up with less struggle in future years.

[PEARCEY]

God I love being part of the RTG brigade. We're really on top at the moment aren't we guys?

Archie...it was, alas, brief.
I will be pleased if you page 8rs are happy in March/April.
In truth we were not safe in December but equally not down and out three months earlier.
It looks like we will be keeping just ahead of the relegation scrap for the time being but I hate to say it but Bolton in a months time looks like another one of those must win games.

[Cemy Junction Expat]

a. Coppell does say three signings per year but doesn't define expensive - Cisse, Fae, +1 in Jan?

Cisse?

b. Agreed, but could be considered a more 'tangible' expression of ambition compared to say older grounds and facilities at other 'bigger' clubs. Players like shiny cars so would probably like shiny facilities

I don't follow you here, apologies.

I didn't say what is defined as expensive...

New facilities probably look better to a footballing, bling led, mind

My two penny's worth on Platypusses' points:

point 1 (Coppell's "spending equals ambition" statements) - I think this is the official line that both Mr Mad & SSC will have agreed on, but that it does not reflect their true motivations.

You simply have to reassure your players, fanbase, co-investors, potential future investors etc that you are in bullish, growth mode and that you are willing to invest what it takes to "keep up with the others". This is what they want to hear - if you say anything else you are paving the way for low morale, lack of appetite for investment etc.

I simply note that Coppell's statements, however positive-sounding, remain vague and leave a huge amount of space for interpretation. To Uke's point, we could spend £5m in January / next summer on 1 or 2 new signings and spin it as "investment for growth" but the reality will be that it's just the bill for "maintenance" ... this is the kind of scenario that I expect because it's the kind of scenario that makes most sense from the owner/investor perspective.

On point 2 - expansion of facilities - this decision was taken some time back and my guess is that it was based on a projection that, so long as we are in the Prem, we could always fill enough extra seats to ensure that the extension pays for itself in the first season ie 2008/09. In this sense it is simply about trying to make more money in the context of the "maintenance" strategy. Of course, it also adds to the appeal of the club to a potential investor who wants to come in and splash £100m on a serious "contender" strategy.

[RoyalBlue]

The problem we have is this; for us to move to the next stage the club will have to get players who are better than we have now; this will mean paying salaries far in excess of that which our current players are on or which the club - thus far - have been willing to consider paying.

The strange thing is that up to a few weeks ago, this is exactly what Coppell was saying we were prepared to do and had to do.

However, it looks like he's now back to the "quite happy with the squad if no one comes in" mantra.

Agreed. I hope a couple of decent results haven't gone to his head.

For what it's worth here's how I read the tea leaves:

Mr Mad is now focused on the exit strategy (flogging the club) and is therefore firmly in "maintenance" as opposed to "growth" investment mode. In other words just wants to spend the minimum required for us to stay in the Prem, so he still has something he can sell, asopposed to investing what it would take to start building us as contenders for 6th place or better.

Surely Mr Mad must realise that unless he does something significant and quickly to ensure that Sir Steve can and does strengthen the squad big time within the next few days, the value of his investment (and hence exit value) could start to drop like a Northern Rock share. It's no longer what's needed for sixth place at some time in the future, it's the bare essential required for survival.

[Lower West]

Why is spending £millions going to solve anything? Roy Keane has spent £30m+ on what? Overpriced Championship players........ The "Bigger Clubs" are now dominating the transfer market to such a degree the Premiership will ultimately become a league of 8 teams playing each other 4 times a season......... A boring thought......

My biggest fear is that SC will actually put his hands up and say " I cannot take this club any further".......................

[Handsome Man]

17th in the division is still a success this season and I think we'll manage that. But the championship squad will eventually dismantle and we need quality replacements. I'll be far happier in May if one more decent player has joined the club, so a few january signings are essential.

[Royal Rother]

Some of the self-congratulatory postings on page 8 look even more ridiculous based on another error-ridden display today.

Nothing happened today to reduce my confidence. It would be silly to let 1 game where we were effectively buggered after 3 minutes have any impact on the longer-term view of our prospects.

[Cemy Junction Expat]

Royal Blue - I think Mr Mad came to a number of conclusions a long time ago that are now dictating his investment strategy:

1/ that money spent on players in the hope of boosting team performance over the long run is a very unreliable business.

2/ that SSC is right in thinking that bringing in new players can be a major risk as it upsets the balance / spirit of the overall team

3/ that, given a squad that is capable of performing to a required level (and don't forget that his required level is 17th - that's all), getting that performance out of them is 90% down to the manager and only 10% down to extra spend on players, so extra spend on players is not worth the huge amounts involved.

He looks at the current squad, and (to Lower west's point) looks at the large scale investments made elsewhere that have not helped those clubs make any significant progress, or at least, nowhere near the progress you would reasonably expect for the spend, and he thinks:

I have a team that is capable of staying up and I have a manager who is capable of getting them to perform to the required level to stay up. I need to spend a certain amount of "maintenance" money to maintain the squad, but in all probability it will make no significant difference to our chances of staying up this season if I spend any more than that "maintenance" amount. The experience of many other clubs demonstrates this. The only reason I would choose to spend more than the "maintenance" levels is if I wanted to contend for a European spot - and then I would have to spend many, many times more than the "maintenance" levels - but that is not my goal.

The Madman is a businessman. He knows that there is risk involved at every stage of the business venture that is RFC. He estimates that he has the risk (relegation), lets say, 80% covered. He could spend an extra £20-£30m this month but he estimates that that would only buy him, say, an extra 5% cover. The spend just isn't worth the extra security.

[Royal Rother]

Excellent post CJE.

[Daniella]

2/ that SSC is right in thinking that bringing in new players can be a major risk as it upsets the balance / spirit of the overall team

.

What balance and spirit? I've only seen it a handful of times this season.
There is nothing there to upset.

[Royal Rother]

Blind as well as stupid. Great.

[Daniella]

Blind as well as stupid. Great.

You're behaving like a petulant child on this forum at the moment RR. Can you not make a point without insulting?
If you make a statement like that at least back it up, where is this great intellect of which you speak?

[Cemy Junction Expat]

2/ that SSC is right in thinking that bringing in new players can be a major risk as it upsets the balance / spirit of the overall team

.

What balance and spirit? I've only seen it a handful of times this season.
There is nothing there to upset.

Taking a totally dispassionate view - the balance and spirit that still has us on track to make 38-40 points in the season which everyone seems to agree will guarantee we stay up. Add to this performances like the Man U draw, the Liverpool win etc which confirm that we can mix it with the best of them.

To return again to the key point I'm banging on about - you are taking the fan's perspective and feeling that our performance is nowhere near as good as it should be. But Mr Mad is taking the businessmans perspective, and the facts tell him that, with just a reasonably fair wind, the quality of the squad is good enough to survive this season (which is all he cares about), and what's more, spending big in January probably carries as much risk of undermining it as enhancing it ...

[papereyes]

Some of the self-congratulatory postings on page 8 look even more ridiculous based on another error-ridden display today.

Nothing happened today to reduce my confidence. It would be silly to let 1 game where we were effectively buggered after 3 minutes have any impact on the longer-term view of our prospects.

A little bit of me, a few hours on, also thinks that we were playing a side pushing for 4th, with Utaka (£ 7 million), Muntari (£7 million), Benjani (£4.1 million) and Kranjcar (£3.5 million) in the side. Don't fool yourselves that this a mythical side of mythical Redknapp bargains.

We played poorly, we made mistakes and we didn't take the game to them that effectively but there's been little about the pace and possession of what was a very good Portsmouth side.

[seahawk10]

Royal Blue - I think Mr Mad came to a number of conclusions a long time ago that are now dictating his investment strategy:

1/ that money spent on players in the hope of boosting team performance over the long run is a very unreliable business.

The Madman is a businessman. He knows that there is risk involved at every stage of the business venture that is RFC. He estimates that he has the risk (relegation), lets say, 80% covered. He could spend an extra £20-£30m this month but he estimates that that would only buy him, say, an extra 5% cover. The spend just isn't worth the extra security.

Fantastic post, that really sums it up Cemy. And he is relying on the input from the football experts under his employ. They have done a remarkable job at getting results without bringing in a lot of outside help. So that will continue to be the pattern until Hammond and Coppell go to him and say, 'This just isn't working, we are going down without some major additions.' That could happen now (doubtful) or in the summer (more likely) or a year from now. But until it does we will do our best and ride the loyalty/chemistry/David v Goliath mentality. We all want Reading to stay in the Prem for as long as possible. I just hope we can stay on the razors edge for a few more years.