The Over - Confidence thread

[Baines]

Of course I was wrong last year - I was not suggesting otherwise.

hmmm.

Football is a game of opinions and I do not believe the 02/03 side was a patch on the current one and equally do not think that 94/95 was the same standard as the current squad. The current squad includes many players with two years PL experience who helped the side achieve 8th place. We have several good youngsters coming through who may well become PL players of the future. Additionally we have players like Matejovsky, Bikey, Rosenior, Kebe and N Hunt who have since been added and "may" if given a chance, become the stars of this season and beyond.

Having said this I realise that tactics, player selection, injuries etc all play a part. In 2005/6 we had few serious injuries and a very tight squad which may well not be the case this time, but taking everything into account I see no reason why another promotion cannot be achieved this season.

It's interesting that you focus a lot on the players. Perhaps, if you start from that position, you're inevitably going to think very highly of this team, because it contains so many of the squad that has done so well in recent years. My viewpoint is shaped slightly more by the feeling that a squad is going places - I think that the Reading teams of the past 15 years have shown the importance of momentum, and how easy it is to lose it.

Of course nothing in football is certain but my "opinion" is that this is the second best squad we have ever had. If they achieve automatic promotion they undoubtedly will prove they are.

Given that the 94-95 team finished 2nd by a whisker, I hope that you won't mind me pointing out that your second sentence doesn't really hold up.

[Royal Rother]

Only by the width of a cat's cock hair.

[Ian Royal]

AP and Floyd are intelligent and do have very good points, although I don't agree with them all. AP I know is fairly young. Floyd, I'm not so sure. But the current postings from both strike me as totally disheartened with a period of dissapointment after relative success. As much an angry reaction as a genuine belief we are rubbish.

Assuming you're within a year of me, I think the four of us are all about the same age. In fact, of the the 'we're a bit rubbish' brigade, my gut feeling is that they're all around 25-29 having been younger teenagers in 1994-95 and have a good decade or so of watching Reading - but maybe importantly did not watch much of the rubbish years. Add in irregular posters along that line (certainly I feel WJ, H+P and Mags think along similar lines), there's a common age there. I'm not sure about SKDD's age but that's my thoughts on the matter. Not that you wanted them.

I think there's a shared belief that we could do better and that we should be able to do better. I think also we're of a generation of fans that have seen more Division 2 football than Division 3 (old rules) coupled with the change to the new stadium.

Fair point about a lot of the others. I remember finding out not that long ago (no more than 3-4 years) AP was about 18, so he has to be early 20s. I'm now officially late 20s which is a fair old difference. Or I may just be talking out my arse because I had a few afternoon beers and not much lunch. I now have a headache.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

We only managed to get 36 points and that was our problem. We should never have been settling for a side that only looked like scraping to 36 points as that puts you at the mercy of any slight upturn in form from one of the other strugglers.

the problem, in part, was that we didn't settle for a side that looked like getting 36 points. At Christmas we had 22 points and although it was fair to assume we wouldn't breeze through the remaining games, it wasn't exactly obvious that we'd only pick up 14 points after Boxing Day. Had relegation seemed more of a threat we might have been a little less complacent.

[Agent Balti]

I believe that the current squad is the best we have ever had at the start of a football league (i.e.non PL) season apart from the one that started 2005/6.

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I've seen on the Internet...ever.

So approximately how many times have we started a season with more than 14 full internationals in the squad?

Caps might not be the be all and end all of course but your exaggeration is one of the most ridiculous I've seen on the internet... ever

OK, maybe the sarcasm button was pushed a bit too hard - but seriously, I couldn't tell if we had 2, 5, 10, 20 internationals at the moment, none of them are playing like internationals. International football doesn't mean squat when it comes to the overall make up of the squad. By that yardstick, just because Kebe is a Malian international I am therefore consider his footballing credentials to be good enough? If you say so...it doesn't work for me, however.

To go back to the original point, I would take a team that consisted of, Williams, Parkinson, Caskey, Rougier, Butler, Cureton (just to give a few) over the clueless shower we have before us right now.

Even so, the point is moot. It's the same bollocks that fans, not only of this club, fall into time and time again. You have to live IN THE NOW. You can only work for THE FUTURE. This nonsense about how far we've come, of how narrow our relegation was, of how many internationals we have is utter gash. I don't care if this team is better or worse than Liverpool in the 80's - it wins us bugger all on the field in 2008/9. You have to have progression, planning, passion and prepared to take a risk - show me the light, if I'm missing it. The fact that Reading Football Club merely exists and 'washes its own face' is not an excuse for us playing long ball shite and it being 'good enough'. It's not.

[Archie's penalty]

OK, maybe the sarcasm button was pushed a bit too hard - but seriously, I couldn't tell if we had 2, 5, 10, 20 internationals at the moment, none of them are playing like internationals. International football doesn't mean squat when it comes to the overall make up of the squad. By that yardstick, just because Kebe is a Malian international I am therefore consider his footballing credentials to be good enough? If you say so...it doesn't work for me, however.

To go back to the original point, I would take a team that consisted of, Williams, Parkinson, Caskey, Rougier, Butler, Cureton (just to give a few) over the clueless shower we have before us right now.

Even so, the point is moot. It's the same bollocks that fans, not only of this club, fall into time and time again. You have to live IN THE NOW. You can only work for THE FUTURE. This nonsense about how far we've come, of how narrow our relegation was, of how many internationals we have is utter gash. I don't care if this team is better or worse than Liverpool in the 80's - it wins us bugger all on the field in 2008/9. You have to have progression, planning, passion and prepared to take a risk - show me the light, if I'm missing it. The fact that Reading Football Club merely exists and 'washes its own face' is not an excuse for us playing long ball shite and it being 'good enough'. It's not.

I agree with what you say.

I do think we have the potential to do well this season. The first couple of games have not been promising. I would like more ambition and drive from Coppell as it would be a shame to waste what we have done over the last few years...

[rfc58]

If you look at the players in the squad, I think we have one of the best squads in this division, BUT, and its a big but, how much do they really want it this time.

The season we went up, you had average players looking good, you had good players looking f*cking good and so on.

But I wonder, and only 6 or so more games will tell, just how much they want it, and with RFC.

I hope I am wrong, but SSC looks like he hasn't got the midas touch with the current crop, I think we should have had enough about us to stay up, but he and his staff obviously didn't instill "we shall not lose" mentality we had the season we went up, and in our first season in the top flight, maybe its a season too far for SSC, once again, its just my observation, and this will prove to be a pile of tosh or very accurate come the end of September.

Its been discussed too many times, but I think the type of players we bring in, have an affect on the dressing room, especially with the likes of Harper/Hunt/Doyle/Marek/Bikey, the players who could leave to better themselves. If we are trying to convince them to stay and hit the top flight again with RFC, they must look at the players we bring in, evaluate them, and see if it will help or hinder that dream return.

If we sign the lad from Daggers, I cannot see that being a "motivation" to certain players, you let an England hopeful go, and sign a Division 4 replacement.

Its all about opinions, and I am not for one minute saying mine is right, but it is of course..

I just think we are at a crossroads, and before the PL money dries up, we need to show us the fans, but more importantly, the players that the management are deadly serious about returning to the top flight, otherwise, I fear the better players will see us as a club being run "like a business", but a business to cautious to speculate to accumulate.

[Agent Balti]

One of the aspects that most people haven't touched on is the 'mental' aspect. Many cite the players we have, but leadership, motivation, pride, rising to the challenge are all needed. So far, this lot don't have it...and it's not coming from the top down either. Which sin is worse is debatable.

[Denver Royal]

OK, maybe the sarcasm button was pushed a bit too hard - but seriously, I couldn't tell if we had 2, 5, 10, 20 internationals at the moment, none of them are playing like internationals. International football doesn't mean squat when it comes to the overall make up of the squad. By that yardstick, just because Kebe is a Malian international I am therefore consider his footballing credentials to be good enough? If you say so...it doesn't work for me, however.

To go back to the original point, I would take a team that consisted of, Williams, Parkinson, Caskey, Rougier, Butler, Cureton (just to give a few) over the clueless shower we have before us right now.

Even so, the point is moot. It's the same bollocks that fans, not only of this club, fall into time and time again. You have to live IN THE NOW. You can only work for THE FUTURE. This nonsense about how far we've come, of how narrow our relegation was, of how many internationals we have is utter gash. I don't care if this team is better or worse than Liverpool in the 80's - it wins us bugger all on the field in 2008/9. You have to have progression, planning, passion and prepared to take a risk - show me the light, if I'm missing it. The fact that Reading Football Club merely exists and 'washes its own face' is not an excuse for us playing long ball shite and it being 'good enough'. It's not.

There are some darn good points in there.

[rfc58]

One of the aspects that most people haven't touched on is the 'mental' aspect. Many cite the players we have, but leadership, motivation, pride, rising to the challenge are all needed. So far, this lot don't have it...and it's not coming from the top down either. Which sin is worse is debatable.

See my post above mate.

[Agent Balti]

One of the aspects that most people haven't touched on is the 'mental' aspect. Many cite the players we have, but leadership, motivation, pride, rising to the challenge are all needed. So far, this lot don't have it...and it's not coming from the top down either. Which sin is worse is debatable.

See my post above mate.

It was in addition to, not despite your post.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Most importantly I don't see much point in being depressed and pessimistic about the club unless the going is really really bad. Because if you are you'll spend most of your football following life at best a bit dissapointed.

What you mean is you favour burying your head in the sand and being eternally optimistic in the face of the "facts" of the situation because it makes you feel happy.

I follow Reading because I genuinely care and love the club. Staying in the Championship is a decent achievement for me. Any season we don't fall down into tier 3 can't be that bad. That's just me. I recognise there are many many more who want and expect more than that.

I follow Reading for very much the same reason.

I don't think the current setup means that staying in the Championship is an achievement, but I don't expect promotion or Premiership football.

All I ask for is that the club is always doing it's utmost to move forward and progress. Thankfully, over the last 15 years under Madejski I've pretty much always got that impression. Even under TB1 and TB2 I could understand what they were trying to achieve and recognised the struggle they were having in trying to progress.

At the moment I just don't get that feeling.

[Sarah Star]

I like the analogy between the theatre and football because this is what I say to my friends who like going to the theatre, but don't want to go to the football and can't understand why I like it.

You don't get involved in a play like you do the football. You can still have your heroes and you can support one side against another, but you are purely an observer, detached from it all. You can't get that emotionally involved in it either, though it can affect you. You can't shout 'Go on Romeo, my son!' at Shakespeare, and it wouldn't make any difference if you did, because the script is already written and they have to follow it. With the football, you don't know how it's going to end. It's real, with real people. It isn't an act. And a play is a one off event. You see the performance and that's it; it's over. With football it's an ongoing thing. You can get to the end of a match, but there's always another one. It's a never-ending story.

As far as the story of Reading FC goes, it looks like they're going to have to cope with what they've got if half the players they've been looking at are injured or too young or not the right position or unavailable or don't want to come here. It's like they're the company of soldiers who've called for backup and it's not coming, so they're going to have to dig deep and fight it out themselves. I love that sort of drama even if success might have been more likely if we'd spent millions on new players. I'd love it if they did manage to get it together and play beautiful football more this way than that way.

[WTRoyal]

I like the analogy between the theatre and football because this is what I say to my friends who like going to the theatre, but don't want to go to the football and can't understand why I like it.

Not sure about the analogy myself... Some of us are passionate about both football and the theatre...

You don't get involved in a play like you do the football. You can still have your heroes and you can support one side against another, but you are purely an observer, detached from it all. You can't get that emotionally involved in it either, though it can affect you. You can't shout 'Go on Romeo, my son!' at Shakespeare

With certain types of play... I'd say, Oh yes you do. Oh no you don't. IT'S BEHIND YOU...!

With the football, you don't know how it's going to end. It's real, with real people. It isn't an act. And a play is a one off event. You see the performance and that's it; it's over. With football it's an ongoing thing. You can get to the end of a match, but there's always another one. It's a never-ending story.

Have you seen Eastenders?

As far as the story of Reading FC goes, it looks like they're going to have to cope with what they've got if half the players they've been looking at are injured or too young or not the right position or unavailable or don't want to come here. It's like they're the company of soldiers who've called for backup and it's not coming, so they're going to have to dig deep and fight it out themselves. I love that sort of drama even if success might have been more likely if we'd spent millions on new players. I'd love it if they did manage to get it together and play beautiful football more this way than that way.

...another TV drama...? Or was it a film?

FWIW I agree with you about the coming "battle of a season" - I'm looking forward to it, if only to see what evolves. I think it was Ian Royal above who claimed "cautious optimism" - that's what I'm aiming for. I can see the current failings of RFC and the shortcomings of both playing and managerial staff, I am nervous - but hopeful... and I'm determined to try and enjoy it (almost) whatever happens...

[The whole year inn]

I am amazed and disheartened at Coppell who at the forum spoke clearly, intelligently and took full responisbility for the lack of player movement and how that was a major factor in our poor season, yet here we are again.

If the situation remains unchanged come Sept 1st, then this point stands.

He has a couple of weeks to sort it out, stopping our midfield looking like a quartet from the Screwfix Premier division.

[glass half full]

I am amazed and disheartened at Coppell who at the forum spoke clearly, intelligently and took full responisbility for the lack of player movement and how that was a major factor in our poor season, yet here we are again.

If the situation remains unchanged come Sept 1st, then this point stands.

He has a couple of weeks to sort it out, stopping our midfield looking like a quartet from the Screwfix Premier division.

I heard a rumour that our next target for the left back spot plays in the Screwfix Premier Division.

[floyd__streete]

This thread could become as symbolic of the 08/09 campaign as last season's similarly named effort was .

Reading this month's edition of When Saturday Comes - the only football mag worth buying - I just came across a comment in an article which in some way reflects people's opinions towards RFC at the moment (and perhaps and shows that it isn't just Reading fans who are 'fickle' towards club management):

"The rest of us, with our accelerated culture and abbreviated attention spans, grow increasingly itchy when nothing very much happens to our clubs for a year or two. No matter if we're punching above our weight; never mind if the manager is still the one who got us promoted to this level - one season of mid-table eventlessness and he's looking at the chop".

Growing itchy? Our transfer dealings - lack of ambition shown therein thus far, already 5 days into the new season - are enough to bring you out in a rash. But we may have discussed this before and don't even start me on the p*ss-poor standard of football we are doling out these days

[urzmikep]

Having watched the highlights of Birmingham's 4-0 win in the mid week cup game - it brought back memories of the exciting and free flowing football we played in our Championships winning season. The amount of times that their players took players on down the flanks and in the middle and delivered perfect crosses which the forwards clinically punished the defence, why can't we do that. All down to lack of ambition and strenghtening the squad I'm afraid. Players have left and the cheap alternatives that have been bought in are not up to the quality and we still have players playing in the worng positions.
Compare us to what Birmingham have done in the Summer, they've strengthened their squad with PROVEN players - phillips, carsley and even taken on Quincy Owiso (or however you spell his name) on loan from Arsenal, but have still kept most of their attacking options (Larson, McFadden, Jerome).

If Coppell is so highly respected in football by other managers then why do we never get loan signings/fringe players from the big 4 (esp. from Sir Alex & Arse). Even Burnley (or Barnsley always get them mixed up!!) have managed to sign the exciting ex Man Utd prospect of Chris Eagles.

The past 3 seasons we haven't even stood still we're in a worse position then before - everyone else strenghthened last year in the Premiership whilst we kept the same team - sames gonna happen this season - many of our rivals in the Championship have bought in players - whilst we've brought no one of any real worth into the team including a RW, LB and midfield player that can actually win the ball.I still say that our best tackler of the ball last seaon was Kitson and we will begin to see how much we really miss him (especially if we carry on with our hoof it style of play!!).

Mr hammond came out after the Forest game and said that we were looking to sign 1 x permanent player and 2 x loan signings this week - still waiting................

Watching the last 2 games has been like De-ja-vu of last season - uncreative, boring and anyone who thinks otherwise has got their heads in the sand! As someone else has already said - I think we'll struggle up until December, have a good run b4 xmas, Coppell will come out and say that he's happy with the squad we don't need to sign anyone and some more of our "more sort after" players will leave to the Premiership with not enough time to replace and will finish mid table.

Please proove me wrong Reading and Mr C. and start playing some exciting football that we all want. I just cant see it happening esp. this Saturday against Plymouth. If we have more than 2 shots on target it will be a miracle!!

[Denver Royal]

I still say that our best tackler of the ball last seaon was Kitson and we will begin to see how much we really miss him (especially if we carry on with our hoof it style of play!!).

We'll also miss Kitson in the air defensively at corners and free kicks. He used to come back and do a good job in those situations.

Still, I'm sure the powers that be have thought about that and have alternative plans/solutions in place.

Birmingham have been criticized in here during the off-season for not knowing what they are doing. We'll see if thats true as the season plays out.

One things for sure. RFC will be held more accountable for results this season and there will be less excuses. There will be none of this 'We're in over our heads, we're punching above our weight, we can't compete at this level' type stuff.

Mr Mad and the club say they are serious about going straight back up. And not so long ago they were serious about Europe.

We'll see how serious they are as the season unfolds...

[Millsy]

After winning 2-1 against Dagenham, come on lets have it all on one thread

Tenacious, youngsters all played well, N Hunt and Long industrious,S Hunt seemlessly fitted in, Hahnemann decisive, Harper a colossus, Kelly not a little boy lost

We are facing a title winning and cup winning season.....

Or will we all remain sensible and realistic?

I prefer sensible and realistic, such as:

Coppell doesn't have a clue
Kebe isn't fit for League 2
Hunt is rubbish
Long ball is all we're good at
Our subs aren't up to it
We're in danger of going down
All our dreams are shattered.