Are we actually that far away from another great team?

[Millsy]

[Wahay we have a player comparable to Ronaldo! Does that mean he's a despicable continental cheat?]

To pose an answer your good question and well thought out post HH I'd say with Coppell we're never really that far from another great team.

All teams have a natural lifespan due to aging, injuries etc. Add to that the immense trauma of promotion, relegation players leaving etc and our amazing team has had relatively accelerated aging and disintegration. Thankfully Coppell has never really taken more than a about 5 years to put a great team together (1st time he took Palace to top flight, and then again years later to take them up the second time, Brentford's playof team and our promotion squad the first time). He's just got an amazing ability to do this.

This team has taken enough trauma and is naturally due for a rebuild, whoever is in charge. Obviously we'll stick with Coppell (unless Madeski has developed dementia and would prefer 135 experimental years again) and we can rest assured he'll produce the same again.

[yuomi]

/

Look at Ronaldo when he first joined Man U. He did far to many step overs and tried too much. Look where he is now.

I know Kebe is miles off of Ronaldo, but the same applies. Ronaldo matured as a player and has become one of, if not the best player in the world.

If you're going to disagree with me, at least put a decent arguement instead.

yeah. but no.

im going to side with MVP on this one. comparing kebe to ronaldo is a bit like saying the janitor from my primary school could walk into the canadian curling team because he spent time with a broom. (nb im fairly sure he couldnt cos he was from gosport and must be dead by now). the glaring difference between the two examples is that KEBE IS OLDER THAN RONALDO. as for his maturing, if he matures anymore he will finally come to terms with the fact that he needs glassses, he has the touch of a sexualy frustrated tyrannosaur and the distribution of woolworths.

Look, lay off Kebe please. He's not a footballer. We know he's not a footballer, he knows he's not a footballer. Pretty soon the management will accept this as well, and he will quietly be on his way. Kebe doesn't pick the team, it's not his fault he's in the team week in week out. He's very good at what he does - which is run fast. It's just that he's rubbish at playing football!

To compare him with any footballer is laughable, so just ignore him and he'll go away - eventually - when we're in Div 3 - or when a new manager arrives and assess the squad he's inherited.

+1. personally i think i was being a bit harsh on the janitor actually but i see your point.

[rhroyal]

I'll be shot for my next comment.

As individual players the class of 05/06 weren't that much better than our current lot. Sidwell, Little and Shorey maybe.

So you should be shot down in flames

05/06 v 08/09
Hahnemann v Hahnemann - a score draw but with the 08/09 version clinging onto the point with a backs to the wall performance
Murty v Rosenior - Murty, not by a massive margin in raw ability but in consistency of performance, his covering of his central defender and leadership miles ahead
Shorey v Armstrong - No contest, Shorey by a mile
Sonko v Doobs/Pearce/Bikey - Sonko again by a mile. Dont let his post injury form cloud the memories of some totally dominant defending for 2 seasons
Ivar v Ivar - Bit like Marcus really, he and Sonko formed such a balanced and formidable partnership, a handful of bookings between them summed it up
Little v Kebe - Is it even worth thinking about!!!
Convey v Hunt - Convey was such a consistent threat that season chipping in with goals and assists while actually playing decent football. If Hunt had maintained his anywhere near his top form it would be close, he hasnt and so its 6 v 0 so far with one draw
Sidwell v Marek/Cisse - can you see a top 4 side coming in for either of them? Do either of them have the alround game of Sidwell? 7 v 0 !
Harper v Harper/Karacan - 8 v 0
Doyle v Doyle/Lita - consistent goals from the forwards in 05/06 saw us romp home, 9 v 0
Kitson v Hunt/Long - You could play both of this season forwards and they wouldnt come close to the player Kitson was that season

Some of the gaps between the players might not be massive, but I couldnt put forward a compelling arguement for anyone apart from Marcus being a better player this season than their 05/06 counterpart

I would argue that simply being a part of that great team brought the best out of all of those players. Their form both before and after those couple of seasons suggests that they weren't always that good. Kebe is capable of the odd match that compares to the Glen Little of 05/06. Likewise Doyle on form is better than he was then. Bikey can be just as dominant as Sonko was on his day. At his best SHunt matches up to Convey.

The issue the current squad has in consistency and reaching their potential every week. Every player did that in 05/06. In the current team a few things go against us, people's heads drop, the team as a collective begins playing at a lower level and before you know it every player is a shadow of who they can be. It's similar to how Harper, Sonko, Little and many members of the 05/06 were in 04/05.

[RoyalBird]

The way I see it is that 3 areas need to improve if we are to be that great team:

1) Teamwork: the 05/06 team that was made so special was because of how great the team worked together. Look at the season after. So many football pundits had us down to be relegated and yet we managed to get to 8th and on the edge of Europe without many household names at the time. This was because every single player that was in the team week in week out wanted to help each other to achieve as high a status as they possibly could. This year, we've had some believing they're deserve a higher wage and want to go to a bigger club cos they're playing regularly for their international side and are recognised by many clubs. How many premiership teams would have known of Kevin Doyle in the 05/06 season compared to today?

2) Consistency: 05/06 team was fairly similar throughout the campaign, bar some rotation up front: Hahnemann, Murty, Sonko, Ivar, Shorey, Little, Sidwell, Harper, Convey, Kitson/Lita/Doyle. The same happened in the season after bar two/three changes: Hahnemann, Murty, Sonko-Duberry/Bikey, Ivar, Shorey, Seol, Sidwell, Harper, SHunt (Convey only played a few games at the start), Doyle, Lita (Kitson was injured for most part). Now apart from Rosenior, Armstrong and possibly Hahnemann, Doyle and SHunt, can you name me a starting XI who has started a lot throughout the season and didn't have a spell on the bench or injured? Add that to captaincy as well, and it's no wonder there hasn't been much teamwork.

3) Strategic change: fair enough, throughout the 05/06 season we continued with the same gameplan and were largely successful, but in the 06/07 season, we weren't afraid to change styles if it meant having to deal with a big team (4-5-1 FA Cup Old Trafford anyone?) or exploiting a weakness (West Ham 6-0, by far Shorey's best game by continually pressing forward down the left). But this season we start fairly similar tactics and play that game throughout when it's not working and end up losing the game. This is partly Coppell's fault for not trying something different, but partly the players' fault for keep going on with the same style when it hasn't work the first 20 times or so. What's wrong with testing the keeper from long range or trying a pass through the middle, basically mixing it up, keep the defence guessing? We've become fairly obvious in that we try the flanks and cross, and if not try and find that killer ball from the flanks, and if that fails, set pieces, and if that fails... well we're buggered!

Well that's my view anyway. Anyone else agree with me?

[roberto_11]

We have a few players to start up a new young, fresh team with desire.

Mooney, Tabb, Karacan, Henry, Pearce, Federici.

Assuming we clear out SHunt, Duberry, Kebe, Kitson, Little, Lita, Harper?, Hahnemann?, to save us going into administration.

Hopefully we can keep Doyle and Marek

It will take a few seasons for a new cheap young team to gel aswell. Ivar, Hahnemann, Shorey, Murty, Harper and Sidwell played a 2 or 3 seasons together in the Championship before we went up.

[Royal Rother]

In answer to the original question we might be, we might not be, but I'll tell you this, there is a greater chance of us having another great team if Coppell is our manager next season rather than anybody else we might possibly get.

Why?

See 2WW1WC's reply above.

[Hoop Blah]

I would argue that simply being a part of that great team brought the best out of all of those players. Their form both before and after those couple of seasons suggests that they weren't always that good. Kebe is capable of the odd match that compares to the Glen Little of 05/06. Likewise Doyle on form is better than he was then. Bikey can be just as dominant as Sonko was on his day. At his best SHunt matches up to Convey.

The issue the current squad has in consistency and reaching their potential every week. Every player did that in 05/06. In the current team a few things go against us, people's heads drop, the team as a collective begins playing at a lower level and before you know it every player is a shadow of who they can be. It's similar to how Harper, Sonko, Little and many members of the 05/06 were in 04/05.

I think you're right that being part of that team bought the best out of some of those players, but most of them are streets ahead of the current squad and I think I'd agree with the almost white wash of the 05-06 team over the seasons team.

As for Kebe being close to a fit Little, that's just dream land. I've seen Kebe have spells in games that cause teams problems but nothing close to an average Little performance (don't forget he was very highly rated when he was first at Burnley) and isn't close to comparing to a top Little game. That Kebe can't do it on a more regualr basis just shows that he isn't fit to lace Little's boots.

I agree that some of this squad (like Harper, Hunt and Doyle) have the potential within them to match the 05-06 team, but at the end of the day they haven't this season. Some, like Ingimarsson and Duberry are past their best and are unlikely to be able to live to those standards though.

[fireman_jules]

Um , sorry to jump in , but does anyone remember that we may actually be in the premiership next season ?

[brendywendy]

lol


too little too late mate


the team boarders have decided, and their verdict is, we arent good enough for this league, let alone the one above

[Woodcote Royal]

Can someone please summarize in a sentence what he's trying to say? Not I chance I can be bothered to read all of that.

I think it went like this.

Here are my views, what does everyone else think and, if you can't be arsed to read it or, more likely, lack the ability to understand what I'm saying, there are hundreds of threads on AE that might be more appropriate for you to read.

[Royalee]

Miles away, which is what's so disappointing given what we could have accomplished.

Hahnemann's past it although Federici looks capable of taking over so I think we're alright in goal as long as we bring a back-up in to cover Adam at the end of the season.

Both our right backs aren't good enough, we need to bring one in or if Kelly turns out to be good enough we need to play him now and bring a back-up in.

Pearce and Bikey would be my first choice at centre back, who I think are good enough and Ivar should be a good back-up for a season or two. Other than that we're very short and probably need to bring at least one in and ditch the crap like Duberry, Bennett and Sodje we have there.

We need to replace Armstrong when we get to the Premiership although he's fine in this league.

Neither winger is good enough and we need to bring in at least one for each side.

Harper and Gunnarsson need ditching and we probably need to bring in at least one real quality central midfielder.

Lastly, I think we're short up of maybe one centre forward up top who gives us something different - maybe someone with extreme pace or who can hold the ball up brilliantly like Kitson used to do.

[Top Flight]

We are already a half decent team. To become a Championship winning team, this is what we need to do.

GK: Hahnemann (Fine)
RB: Rosenior (Fine)
LB: Armstrong (Fine, Good enough to win title but doesn't have Shorey's quality therefore useless in Premiership where quality matters)
CB: Bikey (Fine) he will improve the more he plays
CB: This position needs sorting. We need to sign Mensah or someone
RW: This position needs sorting - I don't have a clue who we could sign
LW: Hunt (Not bad, but we could look for a better wideman)
CM: Matejovsky (This should be fine, but he needs to improve. Maybe he will with games)
CM: This position needs sorting (Harper, Cisse, Gunnar, Karacan, Tabb are all average. They are reasonable players but we need someone better here)
CF: Doyle (Fine)
CF: Kitson (Fine if we sign him, if not, we need to find a top drawer striker

BENCH is fine

[Woodcote Royal]

lol


too little too late mate


the team boarders have decided, and their verdict is, we arent good enough for this league, let alone the one above

On the other hand, some of us know that, not only was last seasons squad good enough not to have been relegated, the current one should have been promoted a month ago.

What we lack is a manager who can get the best out of his players and is prepared to spend the budget made available to him to strengthen where necessary, rather than pandering to tried and failed favorites.

Having blamed everyone other than Steve Coppell for 2 seasons of abject failure, I'm just waiting for a member of The Car Park Crew to point the finger at Ron Grant.

[MartinRdg]

lol


too little too late mate


the team boarders have decided, and their verdict is, we arent good enough for this league, let alone the one above

On the other hand, some of us know that, not only was last seasons squad good enough not to have been relegated, the current one should have been promoted a month ago.

What we lack is a manager who can get the best out of his players and is prepared to spend the budget made available to him to strengthen where necessary, rather than pandering to tried and failed favorites.

Having blamed everyone other than Steve Coppell for 2 seasons of abject failure, I'm just waiting for a member of The Car Park Crew to point the finger at Ron Grant.

For once, I agree with WR.

I think Coppell is very good at getting players in and playing his way. There is just something wrong with the team selection and being too loyal to current team members.

[weybridgewanderer]

I think we are a long way from a "great" team

Goalkeepers - one getting on, one still very you with little experience

right back - one about to retire, one that seems to be going backward and one that is you iwth little experience

left back - the fact our regular left back won player of the season says a lot about our season. he has been solid, not exceptional. he won the award becasue he has been more consistent than anyone else in the squad

centre halves - doobs and ivar are aging centre halves, getting past their prime. I believe that bikey has the ability to be class, pearce, you and inexperienced

midfield - non existent for most of the season. We have been unable to find that "blend" that we had with harper and sidwell, a bit of dig, a bit of creativity. While we have that between harper, bryn, cisse, marek and karacan we have struggled to find an appropriate pairing

wings - kebe, shunt weak. others inexperienced

up front - doyle - can be class, nhunt and lita, could be class, long jury is still out

[Alan Partridge]

The one shining light throught this up and down season has been that all the young players that have come in and done pretty well. They've stepped into some big games and not let anyone down. Karacan and Pearce I think in particular could step into a top 6 side regularly in this division. Henry jury is out a bit, clearly got talent whether he can do it ona consistant basis remains to be seen. Hamer has had a brilliant season at Brentford, Kelly to be fair has done ok. He's seemed to have had to play in some really big games,to make your league debut against wolves wasn't easy but we kept a clean sheet,fairly comfortably it must be said.

There are others out on loan that might be able to step up as well, like Mooney maybe,Church, Sigurdsson looks a good player even Robson Kanu. Just a shame we can't bring back 32 goal Simon Cox but we've done that one to death.

I don't think Reading are THAT far away either to be honest, I think our midfield is dire especially the wide areas and that has to be addressed in the summer, if we stay down Rosneior is ok but in the Premiership we'd need a better right back, left back I quite like Harding from the little I've seen, Armstrong is a no frills left back, they'd be ok for CCC. Prem ? marks. Centre half we'd need a partner for Bikey, a replacement for the ageing legs of Doobs and Ivar. Centre forward needs a shake up too. Doyle is a funny player, he looked real Premiership class pre Xmas but since he's gone so off the boil it's worrying. Kitson isn't a fraction of the player he was 3 years ago, Lita's RFC career is over and Noel Hunt's fitness needs to improve. Whether that's because like his brother he puts so much into it he knackers himself out i don't know. Long to be fair to him has improved greatly in the 2nd half of the season and he may have just saved his RFC career. I still believe we need better than him and I still don't beleive he quite has the all round game to command regular first team football at a team going for promotion.

I think regardless who is manager there wil be a big shake up of players in the summer,i agree there needs to bea balance of youth and experience but i believe certain players here have ran their course and it's time for a shake up. Whether it will be Coppell doing it or someone else remains to be seen.

[loyalroyal4life]

bikey can ping a ball better than s.hunt, what does that say about our midfield?

[Woodcote Royal]

The one shining light throught this up and down season has been that all the young players that have come in and done pretty well. They've stepped into some big games and not let anyone down. Karacan and Pearce I think in particular could step into a top 6 side regularly in this division. Henry jury is out a bit, clearly got talent whether he can do it ona consistant basis remains to be seen. Hamer has had a brilliant season at Brentford, Kelly to be fair has done ok. He's seemed to have had to play in some really big games,to make your league debut against wolves wasn't easy but we kept a clean sheet,fairly comfortably it must be said.

There are others out on loan that might be able to step up as well, like Mooney maybe,Church, Sigurdsson looks a good player even Robson Kanu. Just a shame we can't bring back 32 goal Simon Cox but we've done that one to death.

I don't think Reading are THAT far away either to be honest, I think our midfield is dire especially the wide areas and that has to be addressed in the summer, if we stay down Rosneior is ok but in the Premiership we'd need a better right back, left back I quite like Harding from the little I've seen, Armstrong is a no frills left back, they'd be ok for CCC. Prem ? marks. Centre half we'd need a partner for Bikey, a replacement for the ageing legs of Doobs and Ivar. Centre forward needs a shake up too. Doyle is a funny player, he looked real Premiership class pre Xmas but since he's gone so off the boil it's worrying. Kitson isn't a fraction of the player he was 3 years ago, Lita's RFC career is over and Noel Hunt's fitness needs to improve. Whether that's because like his brother he puts so much into it he knackers himself out i don't know. Long to be fair to him has improved greatly in the 2nd half of the season and he may have just saved his RFC career. I still believe we need better than him and I still don't beleive he quite has the all round game to command regular first team football at a team going for promotion.

I think regardless who is manager there wil be a big shake up of players in the summer,i agree there needs to bea balance of youth and experience but i believe certain players here have ran their course and it's time for a shake up. Whether it will be Coppell doing it or someone else remains to be seen.

Agree with virtually all of that but many of the changes you suggest, and I agree with, won't happen under Coppell.

[Top Flight]

The one change we mustn't make is that of the manager.

Coppell should definitely stay. He is the best manager in our history.

[Royalee]

The one change we mustn't make is that of the manager.

Coppell should definitely stay. He is the best manager in our history.

In your opinion.