Howard Now Confirmed

[Royalee]

I was referring to when Harper's been supposed to have been 'carrying' the midfield according to Ideal, not before. I'm well aware of the delights we experienced under Bullivant and then Burns thank you very much - but I don't see what James Harper has to do with that. It makes me laugh how much acclaim Harper gets with most of it ultimately being generated by his mannerisms and not his footballing ability which is the important part. If I want a laugh and a bit of banter I'll go down the pub with my mates. I pay my £20 on a Saturday to watch football, not vote in a popularity contest like some on here seem to - Ron Grant and Gordon Neate never got this level of praise and they did far more for RFC than Harper.

[Royalee]

Royalee is very, very good at what he does.

Denying reality and inventing his own?
Claiming he speaks the truth and everyone else is "a cock, prick, oxf*rd idiot" etc?

I would not say that was something to be proud of.

Claiming to know everything and protesting for the management to be sacked not having seen a game in the flesh under them isn't really something to be proud of tbqfh.

[Pseud O'Nym]

Royalee is very, very good at what he does.

what be Brendan Rogers catamite?

Catamite is just one of those things you either love or hate though, innit.

[leon]

Royalee is very, very good at what he does.

what be Brendan Rogers catamite?

Catamite is just one of those things you either love or hate though, innit.

clearly as a young boy - he is in the former camp - if you excuse the pun

[Ian Royal]

oh good another thread ruined by the man who can't move on.

[leon]

I was referring to when Harper's been supposed to have been 'carrying' the midfield according to Ideal, not before. I'm well aware of the delights we experienced under Bullivant and then Burns thank you very much - but I don't see what James Harper has to do with that. It makes me laugh how much acclaim Harper gets with most of it ultimately being generated by his mannerisms and not his footballing ability which is the important part. If I want a laugh and a bit of banter I'll go down the pub with my mates. I pay my £20 on a Saturday to watch football, not vote in a popularity contest like some on here seem to - Ron Grant and Gordon Neate never got this level of praise and they did far more for RFC than Harper.

That I doubt, you would have been about 12 at the time?

My point is that with all this excitement at getting rid of the old guard and the rise of the Rogers revolution (half the price) you won't recognise a similar situation post 1995 where SJM sold off a good team and replaced them with cheaper alternatives. Trust me, it ended badly.

Anyway I think Rogers is potentially a good manager - just concerned we're selling off experienced players that we'll need to gell the young team together - I think Harper is one of those players.

Hopefully Howard can replace some of this experience - judging what SU fans have told me they're not losing any sleep about losing him - but that could be because they prefer a more agricultural style....

[Royalee]

I was referring to when Harper's been supposed to have been 'carrying' the midfield according to Ideal, not before. I'm well aware of the delights we experienced under Bullivant and then Burns thank you very much - but I don't see what James Harper has to do with that. It makes me laugh how much acclaim Harper gets with most of it ultimately being generated by his mannerisms and not his footballing ability which is the important part. If I want a laugh and a bit of banter I'll go down the pub with my mates. I pay my £20 on a Saturday to watch football, not vote in a popularity contest like some on here seem to - Ron Grant and Gordon Neate never got this level of praise and they did far more for RFC than Harper.

My point is that with all this excitement at getting rid of the old guard and the rise of the Rogers revolution (half the price) you won't recognise a similar situation post 1995 where SJM sold off a good team and replaced them with cheaper alternatives. Trust me, it ended badly.

Except it bears no relevance because the cheaper alternatives were all proven poor performers before they signed and we lost a team at their peak, not a team of underachievers like last season. We also did not have the facilities, the management or the youngsters coming through that we have now. For someone questioning my knowledge of what went on then, you seem to have a very poor memory and ability to rationally compare the two.

[leon]

I was referring to when Harper's been supposed to have been 'carrying' the midfield according to Ideal, not before. I'm well aware of the delights we experienced under Bullivant and then Burns thank you very much - but I don't see what James Harper has to do with that. It makes me laugh how much acclaim Harper gets with most of it ultimately being generated by his mannerisms and not his footballing ability which is the important part. If I want a laugh and a bit of banter I'll go down the pub with my mates. I pay my £20 on a Saturday to watch football, not vote in a popularity contest like some on here seem to - Ron Grant and Gordon Neate never got this level of praise and they did far more for RFC than Harper.

My point is that with all this excitement at getting rid of the old guard and the rise of the Rogers revolution (half the price) you won't recognise a similar situation post 1995 where SJM sold off a good team and replaced them with cheaper alternatives. Trust me, it ended badly.

Except it bears no relevance because the cheaper alternatives were all proven poor performers before they signed and we lost a team at their peak, not a team of underachievers like last season. We also did not have the facilities, the management or the youngsters coming through that we have now. For someone questioning my knowledge of what went on then, you seem to have a very poor memory and ability to rationally compare the two.

Yes I am questioning your knowledge - because I dont believe you are able to:

a) Compare the two situations, because you weren't actually there
b) Have the experience to compare the two teams in the first place

You talk a good game - but you don't convince me son.

As you will be well aware post 1995 we sold immediately and then spent heavily on Caskey whilst bringing in cheaper replacements. Now the players we've brought in are what? Proven?

Ok Rasiack (sic) lets call him the Caskey. Mills can be Shinners (not bad although never showed the Portsmouth form with us tbh) Bertrand, Cummings - utterly unproven. McAnuff is a bit of a gamble - he appears to be a waster - but I hope I'm wrong.

Post 1995 we didn't completely get rid of the team and replace them with very raw 20 year olds - we still had some of the old team but it was a steady depletion of the team.

So trust me I'm weighing up what's going on here...I want it to work...I have my doubts that such a change will work.

[Royalee]

Let's pick a 1995/6 game which I was at - Leicester away where we drew 1-1:

We had a team of: Sheppard; Bernal; Gooding; Holsgrove; A.Williams; McPherson; Gilkes; Thorpe; Nogan; Lovell; Jones. Subs not used - M.Williams; Kerr; Quinn from the HNA archive.

Simon Sheppard, a goalkeeper who ended up playing non league football just a couple of years later in his 'prime', Andy Bernal who was always an average full back at best, an ageing Mick Gooding at opposite full back (the equivalent to being forced to play Gunnarsson there now), Adie Williams (the equivalent to say a Mills), McPherson who never impressed me and was a League 1 standard centre back for most of his career.

Midfield-wise is the most laughable a comparison - Gilkes the best player who performed on the same, actually probably a worse level than McAnuff has so far in his career, Thorpe - a youngster with less experience than James Henry and less ability, Tom Jones who was notable for nothing other than playing with a broken leg in one game the previous year and was a League 1 player at best and lastly Paul Holsgrove who was pure comedy.

Up front we had Lovell who to be fair was decent but wouldn't score a bucket full of goals - was about the level of Martin Butler but still a legend...and Lee Nogan who ended up in Division 3 a couple of years later after THAT goal in the playoff final in '95.

Granted we had an ageing Quinn on the bench, by this point comparable to the Kevin Philips of this year, but then we had Martin Williams who in the end couldn't cut it in League 1 and Dylan Kerr who had lost form on the bench.


We had an utterly horrific team and absolutely no depth back then. Show me all of the international experience and praise this lot got at a young age and I'll show you a liar. We have brought in players who have plundered over 20 goals a season at this level, players who have played in the Champions League against the likes of Milan and players at a young age who have already shown they are comfortable and are able to improve yet further.

[leon]

Let's pick a 1995/6 game which I was at - Leicester away where we drew 1-1:

We had a team of: Sheppard; Bernal; Gooding; Holsgrove; A.Williams; McPherson; Gilkes; Thorpe; Nogan; Lovell; Jones. Subs not used - M.Williams; Kerr; Quinn from the HNA archive.

Simon Sheppard, a goalkeeper who ended up playing non league football just a couple of years later in his 'prime', Andy Bernal who was always an average full back at best, an ageing Mick Gooding at opposite full back (the equivalent to being forced to play Gunnarsson there now), Adie Williams (the equivalent to say a Mills), McPherson who never impressed me and was a League 1 standard centre back for most of his career.

Midfield-wise is the most laughable a comparison - Gilkes the best player who performed on the same, actually probably a worse level than McAnuff has so far in his career, Thorpe - a youngster with less experience than James Henry and less ability, Tom Jones who was notable for nothing other than playing with a broken leg in one game the previous year and was a League 1 player at best and lastly Paul Holsgrove who was pure comedy.

Up front we had Lovell who to be fair was decent but wouldn't score a bucket full of goals - was about the level of Martin Butler but still a legend...and Lee Nogan who ended up in Division 3 a couple of years later after THAT goal in the playoff final in '95.

Granted we had an ageing Quinn on the bench, by this point comparable to the Kevin Philips of this year, but then we had Martin Williams who in the end couldn't cut it in League 1 and Dylan Kerr who had lost form on the bench.


We had an utterly horrific team and absolutely no depth back then. Show me all of the international experience and praise this lot got at a young age and I'll show you a liar. We have brought in players who have plundered over 20 goals a season at this level, players who have played in the Champions League against the likes of Milan and players at a young age who have already shown they are comfortable and are able to improve yet further.

not sure how that's disproved my point - that we sold off key players and brought in young and inexperienced players, but still not at the rate we've done in 2009??? Maybe you could enlightend me?

Also I never mentioned "international experience" so that's an utterly irrelevant point.

regarding general experience -
if you wanted to prove my point well look at that team sheet a mixture of incredibly inexperienced and experienced - and we still struggled for 2 years then went under.

We had a team of: Sheppard; Bernal (VERY EXPERIENCE) ; Gooding (VERY EXPERIENCED - look at Straps number of appearances for RFC); Holsgrove; A.Williams(VERY EXPERIENCED see comment about Gooding); McPherson(VERY EXPERIENCED); Gilkes(VERY EXPERIENCED see comment about Gooding); Thorpe; Nogan(EXPERIENCED); Lovell(EXPERIENCED); Jones(VERY EXPERIENCED granted at a lower level). Subs not used - M.Williams; Kerr; Quinn from the HNA archive.

That's not a "horrific team" that's a team with some decent players and a couple of great RFC players but too many inexperienced players.

Oh and BTW to denegrate Micky Gooding with your description demonstrates the paucity of your footballing knowledge - I'm surprised that as a 12 year old you didn't realise that during that time he was head and shoulders the best player in that team. You silly boy, come bak when you've watched some football. And understood it.

[Woodcote Royal]

So you are not at all entertaining the possibility that Harper has in fact carried a shit midfield for the last few seasons??

Why not ask Barnsley which of the Reading teams they've faced recently they thought was the best..........................the one being "carried" in midfield by Harper or the one that got lumbered with Siggy and Karacan.

[Woodcote Royal]

Let's pick a 1995/6 game which I was at - Leicester away where we drew 1-1:

We had a team of: Sheppard; Bernal; Gooding; Holsgrove; A.Williams; McPherson; Gilkes; Thorpe; Nogan; Lovell; Jones. Subs not used - M.Williams; Kerr; Quinn from the HNA archive.

Simon Sheppard, a goalkeeper who ended up playing non league football just a couple of years later in his 'prime', Andy Bernal who was always an average full back at best, an ageing Mick Gooding at opposite full back (the equivalent to being forced to play Gunnarsson there now), Adie Williams (the equivalent to say a Mills), McPherson who never impressed me and was a League 1 standard centre back for most of his career.

Midfield-wise is the most laughable a comparison - Gilkes the best player who performed on the same, actually probably a worse level than McAnuff has so far in his career, Thorpe - a youngster with less experience than James Henry and less ability, Tom Jones who was notable for nothing other than playing with a broken leg in one game the previous year and was a League 1 player at best and lastly Paul Holsgrove who was pure comedy.

Up front we had Lovell who to be fair was decent but wouldn't score a bucket full of goals - was about the level of Martin Butler but still a legend...and Lee Nogan who ended up in Division 3 a couple of years later after THAT goal in the playoff final in '95.

Granted we had an ageing Quinn on the bench, by this point comparable to the Kevin Philips of this year, but then we had Martin Williams who in the end couldn't cut it in League 1 and Dylan Kerr who had lost form on the bench.


We had an utterly horrific team and absolutely no depth back then. Show me all of the international experience and praise this lot got at a young age and I'll show you a liar. We have brought in players who have plundered over 20 goals a season at this level, players who have played in the Champions League against the likes of Milan and players at a young age who have already shown they are comfortable and are able to improve yet further.

not sure how that's disproved my point - that we sold off key players and brought in young and inexperienced players, but still not at the rate we've done in 2009??? Maybe you could enlightend me?

Also I never mentioned "international experience" so that's an utterly irrelevant point.

regarding general experience -
if you wanted to prove my point well look at that team sheet a mixture of incredibly inexperienced and experienced - and we still struggled for 2 years then went under.

We had a team of: Sheppard; Bernal (VERY EXPERIENCE) ; Gooding (VERY EXPERIENCED - look at Straps number of appearances for RFC); Holsgrove; A.Williams(VERY EXPERIENCED see comment about Gooding); McPherson(VERY EXPERIENCED); Gilkes(VERY EXPERIENCED see comment about Gooding); Thorpe; Nogan(EXPERIENCED); Lovell(EXPERIENCED); Jones(VERY EXPERIENCED granted at a lower level). Subs not used - M.Williams; Kerr; Quinn from the HNA archive.

That's not a "horrific team" that's a team with some decent players and a couple of great RFC players but too many inexperienced players.

Oh and BTW to denegrate Micky Gooding with your description demonstrates the paucity of your footballing knowledge - I'm surprised that as a 12 year old you didn't realise that during that time he was head and shoulders the best player in that team. You silly boy, come bak when you've watched some football. And understood it.

Well he won't learn anything from you

Your assessment of these 2 teams is simply ridiculous.

Most of the young players on our books now wouldn't have looked twice at this club back in '95 and as for Simon Sheppard we probably have 4 keepers better than him now

When did Bernal and Gooding play full back in the top flight? At least one of those BR brought in will at some point having shipped out Rosenior, who already has, because he wasn't considered good enough. Gooding was 36 at the time and about to retire FFS his biggst club having been Wolves were he spent 1 year

Our post '95 team got relegated after 3 seasons because it was dreadful; lacking in any thing close to the depth, quality and prospects of the one we have today and to suggest otherwise simply beggars belief.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Our post 95 team got relegated a few years later because we did not step up to the mark, we went a cheaper option on the managers and did not back them with money.

McGhee moved on when SJM would not let him buy a striker when he had his first choices out injured, who knows what might have happened that season had he been allowed to sign Nogan?? and you have to wonder why Pardew left, was it really because it was West Ham, or did discussions about the future of RFC not live up to his ambitions as a manager?

[Royalee]

Woodcote has pretty much said what I was going to. leon, although it was an interesting debate, the two sides aren't comparable to each other at all - you think I'm the one who has trouble remembering the side?

[ankeny]

Good post Woodcote,no player would want to come here if things stayed the same.People can moan (I have been one of them)but Buck would not be able to near the players he signed under that regime,and we now would not entertain any of those players we had the.We are now an established Championship side,us oldies knew our station in them dark days and now our station is a championship side.Now in the next few years we need that step up to become a prem side and Im beginning to think some of us have been a bit harsh on Buck,he just might be the special one

[PEARCEY]

Good post Woodcote,no player would want to come here if things stayed the same.People can moan (I have been one of them)but Buck would not be able to near the players he signed under that regime,and we now would not entertain any of those players we had the.We are now an established Championship side,us oldies knew our station in them dark days and now our station is a championship side.Now in the next few years we need that step up to become a prem side and Im beginning to think some of us have been a bit harsh on Buck,he just might be the special one

Yes as an oldie its true we have grown as a club. In the 1980's being in the second tier of English football was a real treat...Christ being in the 3rd round of the F.A.Cup automatically!!. In those days we would have regarded ourselves to be at the same size as say Grimsby Town....whereas now we would compare ourselves with Ipswich, Coventry City, Cardiff City etc...
However that does not mean we will continue to grow and there remains the danger we could fall away and end up back in the lower divisions playing in front of crowds of less than 10,000.

[Deathy]

Good post Woodcote,no player would want to come here if things stayed the same.People can moan (I have been one of them)but Buck would not be able to near the players he signed under that regime,and we now would not entertain any of those players we had the.We are now an established Championship side,us oldies knew our station in them dark days and now our station is a championship side.Now in the next few years we need that step up to become a prem side and Im beginning to think some of us have been a bit harsh on Buck,he just might be the special one

Deathy likes this.

[BobKnows]

Dodd me rotten, but has anyone else noticed that Wiki has us paying "65 million" for Howard

Explains where Madejski's money has gone

[IMAMATEOFJOVSKY]

So you are not at all entertaining the possibility that Harper has in fact carried a shit midfield for the last few seasons??

Why not ask Barnsley which of the Reading teams they've faced recently they thought was the best..........................the one being "carried" in midfield by Harper or the one that got lumbered with Siggy and Karacan.

Well I'm sure that Harper, in a Sheff U shirt, will show us all what we have missed out on by not keeping him

[RoyalBlue]

Dodd me rotten, but has anyone else noticed that Wiki has us paying "65 million" for Howard

Explains where Madejski's money has gone

Well I realised that they would need to concoct a story somehow (and have taken time to do so) but this really does seem a bit clumsy!