WHO IS TO BLAME?

[Ian Royal]

The players who Coppell rewarded let us down.

Some of those players bottled it. Hunt, Shorey, Kitson, Lita, Harper. Harsh to single them out but they were not a shadow of themselves second season in the Prem.

They all thought they were better than they were and deserved a bigger/better club - well, all those listed have hardly set the world alight since leaving us - they might be on good money now, but they'll end up journeymen, not the fantastic players they think they are and serves them right for being greedy. When they played for us they had "legend" status, now they're no-marks in most cases. With hindsight, had they stayed with us another couple of seasons and kept us up, things could be so different for all concerned, and most particularly this club. In my opinion, of course.

They wouldn't be any more likely to have made it elsewhere and would have been earning less, with no guarantee of still being in the Premier League. No brainer for them really. Sucks for us of course.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

The players who Coppell rewarded let us down.

Some of those players bottled it. Hunt, Shorey, Kitson, Lita, Harper. Harsh to single them out but they were not a shadow of themselves second season in the Prem.

Harsh on Kitson seeing as he spent most of the first season on the injury table, didn't score a goal and was out top scorer in the second season.

Kitson was stuffed by multiple serious injuries in his career and playing in a team towards the end of that last season that couldn't create anything to save it's life.

Harsh on Harps as well. He carried our midfield in the second season, scoring a fair few goals for a defensive player. He just had no one even remotely good enough next to him and no right winger all season.
And how you can miss out Doyle, who scored a measely 6 or so goals is beyond me. And then of course there are Sonko and Ivar. Although Sonko has the injury excuse too. Rosenior was dump and failed to live up to his hype. Murty most of the season injured.

Basically the only players with any credit from that season were: Hahnemann & Harper and Kitson and Hunt for half a season each.

In my opinion anyway.

To be fair I thought Doyle looked fcuked most of the season and my opinion on Harper is prob unjust as like you say he had no one with him all season after we failed to replace SId.

[Maguire]

I'm assuming you are asking who is to blame for our possible relegation this season then, in which case the answer is quite clearly Rodgers currently.

Not really "clearly", is it? He didn't sell off or loan out every player of any value in the squad, did he?

All this could've been avoided if we'd gone up again last season. And there's not a single good excuse why that didn't happen. We were utter shit for all of 2009 and the likes of Coppell and players like Stephen Hunt need to have a long hard look at themselves.

I'm answering who is resposible for our current problems involving relegation this season.
Rodgers started with a squad capable of mid-table without too much difficulty and ended with a squad that should have been capable of mid-table.

He made many many mistakes, ergo our current plight is his responsibility. Last season has very little to do with this season in that respect.

If you want it more in depth than that, then I need multiple options, which isn't clearly isn't what this thread is about. It's about picking one person you think has most responsibility for NOW.

He DID sell off or loan out close to half the players who are no longer with us this season. Not all I grant you, but he was in charge for plenty of the outgoings.

You're so short-sighted. Why do you think the reason we're facing relegation this season has to be solely down to other things that happened *this* season? How can you think the current plight has "very little to do with last season"? It's got everything to do with last season. It's why we don't have any money. It's why we've lost all our best players.

And do you really think Rodgers was the one who chose to get rid of Doyle and Hunt and Bikey etc? Not a fooking chance mate.

[Royalee]

Rodgers started with a squad capable of mid-table without too much difficulty and ended with a squad that should have been capable of mid-table.

How do you work that out based on our post-January form last season and the fact that we then lost £12 million of players you f*cking mong?

[The whole year inn]

Rodgers started with a squad capable of mid-table without too much difficulty and ended with a squad that should have been capable of mid-table.

How do you work that out based on our post-January form last season and the fact that we then lost £12 million of players you f*cking mong?

Ians point is saying that it is down to manager

By saying this you are admitting that Coppell was not at fault for our post-Jan form - it was down to the players

[Sun Tzu]

And do you really think Rodgers was the one who chose to get rid of Doyle and Hunt and Bikey etc? Not a fooking chance mate.

Do you think anyone 'chose' to 'get rid' of them ?

Doyle stayed a year longer than might have been expected. HNA was united in demanding Hunt was shipped out and Bikey for 3 million was a huge amount for a player with talent but no temperament.

Players wanting to play in the Prem meant there was no decision to be made. The issue is whether their replacements are up to the job.

[Hugo Boss]

Kingsley
The North Stand Drummer
Matey who shouts all that sh*t before games

[Maguire]

And do you really think Rodgers was the one who chose to get rid of Doyle and Hunt and Bikey etc? Not a fooking chance mate.

Do you think anyone 'chose' to 'get rid' of them ?

Doyle stayed a year longer than might have been expected. HNA was united in demanding Hunt was shipped out and Bikey for 3 million was a huge amount for a player with talent but no temperament.

Players wanting to play in the Prem meant there was no decision to be made. The issue is whether their replacements are up to the job.

You're agreeing with me then, cheers.

[ROKERITE]

It has to be Madejski and his fellow directors; they're the ones who took the ridiculous decision to sack Rodgers after just six months.

[Negative_Jeff]

Lots of people have screwed up but no one has mentioned us, the supporters and how piss poor we have been throughout 2009.
The chronic home form suggests this may have played a part in the great RFC downturn.

[Royal Lady]

LOL

On the contrary, the club should feel lucky so many of us still turn up.

[Hoop Blah]

You're so short-sighted. Why do you think the reason we're facing relegation this season has to be solely down to other things that happened *this* season? How can you think the current plight has "very little to do with last season"? It's got everything to do with last season. It's why we don't have any money. It's why we've lost all our best players.

And do you really think Rodgers was the one who chose to get rid of Doyle and Hunt and Bikey etc? Not a fooking chance mate.

Totally agree.

Although recent mistakes have obviously conributed (from both Rodgers, and the powers that be at the club) the current plight is a direct product of the clubs failure to strengthen from a position of strength back in the summer of 2007 and then the failure to avoid the drop and then bounce back.

Who is most culpable for those situations? Without knowing the details of the money available you have to take Coppell at his word and accept that he had money to spend in the summer and in the January transfer windows and he failed to build on the success we had. A couple of more astute and successful sigings was all it needed* to replace the departing Sidwell, cover for the long term injury of Little and add some much needed fresh impetus and competition.

At the time we knew Sidwell was leaving we should've been bringing in players to replace him. There were decent and proven Premiership midfielders available and instead we wasted the money on Fae, Cisse and then Matejovsky without having a ready made replacement to step in. We waited til the summer to replace Little, and only did that with the out of depth Kebe when again, there were ready made replacements out there and available.

Not putting up more of a fight to progress and strengthen in the summer of 2007 is what has led us to this situation, for that I still blame Coppell.


*For all those that have lambasted Rodgers for signing Mills and not playing him and for bringing in the weoful Cummings, you have to remember that Coppell signed the likes of Halford, Cisse, Fae, Kebe, Bennett, Sodje, Bikey etc and never played them much. Some of those same Rodger critics claim that it was his inexperience and that we need an experienced manager to cut out these mistakes, they need to remember that all managers fail with some buys, even the saintly Coppell.

[Focher]

Lots of people have screwed up but no one has mentioned us, the supporters and how piss poor we have been throughout 2009.
The chronic home form suggests this may have played a part in the great RFC downturn.

im sorry jeff but that is just bollocks. We will NEVER be able to create the passionate atmosphere of an Anfield or a St James Park, we are just not that type of club, and to blame the supporters when they have continued to turn out in very good numbers considering the utter drivel thats been served up is a testimony to their loyalness, because every single one has every justification to not bother.

[The Echo]

Perhaps we could consider who is going to get us out of the shit and lead a miraculous escape from relegation to Div 1.

a. SJM's checkbook
b. New experienced journeyman manager
c. Brian Mc
d. Experienced pros
e. Young Kids
f. Fans
g. We are doomed and might as well give up.

[Negative_Jeff]

Lots of people have screwed up but no one has mentioned us, the supporters and how piss poor we have been throughout 2009.
The chronic home form suggests this may have played a part in the great RFC downturn.

im sorry jeff but that is just bollocks. We will NEVER be able to create the passionate atmosphere of an Anfield or a St James Park, we are just not that type of club, and to blame the supporters when they have continued to turn out in very good numbers considering the utter drivel thats been served up is a testimony to their loyalness, because every single one has every justification to not bother.

We could at least try to match the passionate atmosphere at Swindon or Aldershot Foch, but fair enough there may be no room for improvement.
A bit sad though.

[Very near...far away]

HNA whingers have undoubtedly dragged this club down, it's been going on since the time of Terry Bullivant. Poor Terry.

Some of you don't even deserve rattlestix.

I think it's a case of stiff upper lip, all pull together and then some big fat bastid will come along and kick a few heads and we might just stay up.

[rhroyal]

How can only 1 option be available on this thread? I'd vote for all of those if I had the chance.

[Royalee]

Here's how I apportion the blame...

1. Madejski and his fellow directors including Howe (I class these as the same as Howe should work closely with Madejski and Madejski has the final decision)
2. Steve Coppell
3. Nicky Hammond
4. Brendan Rodgers
5. Being unlucky

[rhroyal]

Here are my views on JM. He must take a portion of the blame and has lost interest in recent years. I can understand why though.

He has lost hope. I reckon he had a clear business model when he took over the club.

Phase 1 - Buy a lowly, messed up football club on the cheap. Achieved

Phase 2 - Stabilize. Ensure survival and put the club in a position to move forward in the future. Achieved. Indeed exceeded in the 1990-95 era, and we were honestly punching above our weight.

Phase 3 - Invest. Build a new stadium, get some decent playing staff and management in. Achieved Due to the years from 1995-2000 this also came with having to recover the damage of TB 1 and 2.

Phase 4 - Reach the promised land. He never planned to be the man to inject the vast money to take us further than that. Achieved.

Phase 5 - Leave the club in a strong financial situation, looking strong in the top flight with bright prospects. Looked like we would achieve this at the end of 06/07.

Phase 6 - Sell for ££££££. Failed.

We were half way through phase 5. We had finished 8th in the Premiership. We had a solid financial base. We had planning permission approved for 38,000. Yet we never got the buyer Madejski expected. He is a businessman, he didn't want to throw needless money at a football club. All of his work for this club had the intention of selling it on at the end for mega bucks to a man who could take us to the next stage.

The model worked for Brum and a couple of other Premiership sides, and to be honest we must have looked like a seriously worthwhile investment at the end of 06/07. Everything up to then had gone to plan for JM.

Then the buyer never came. Then we were relegated. Coppell's fault for not spending? JM's inability to release transfer funds? It barely matters, finding a buyer would have been far harder for JM.

Last season we had a real go at bouncing back but it didn't happen. Now we are where we are. A return to the Premiership looks near impossible without more investment. JM isn't giving us any. He is letting the club run itself. He's not even giving us any more long term, low interest, loans like he has in the past. He just seems to be desperately hoping that somebody comes in for us based upon our reputation from a few years ago.

It was always a risky investment taking us to the Premiership. The risk didn't pay off. He didn't get his buyer. Now he's lost heart. He doesn't want to put any more of his money into our club when a return can't be guaranteed.

If I could talk to JM, I'd tell him that investing and taking the risk again is worth it. A Premiership club is worth 3 or 4 times that of a Championship club, even with our solid financial footing. If we get relegated again, he can write off any hope of getting a sufficient return on what he's put into this club. He must begin investing and risking his money again if he wants to make money out of this club - at the moment he looks more like he is cutting his losses. Obviously with that decision would come the risk of losing even more, I can see his predicament.

The issue is he doesn't seem to want to cut his losses either. He's holding out for his asking price which will see a sufficient return, whilst the value of his club plummets. He either has to risk more of his money and make a good return off the club or he needs to cut his losses and sell up now. He can't have the return without the further risk though - he needs to wake up.

[The Quiet Man]

Majority of the blame at SJM's door (although I feel that blame is too strong a word). SJM model has been to find a manager on a hit or miss basis get them to build a team on the relative cheap, massively overachieve on the budgets, wage structure etc and enjoy a couple of years success before it all blows up, and if he doesn't manage that then you get the opposite coaches who can't manage like TB1 TB2 and BR and probably BMcD. There are parallels with what happened after the Bolton play off game when a very good side was broken up and bugger all resource was allocated the result was a decline that lasted 5 years. Supporters were told then that the club couldn't afford the premier league due to the facilities (something that certainly didn't stop Pompey in a similar situation). Aren't we now in the same position? It is clear that the club as constituted cannot afford premier league football as there will not be the investment if/when we get promoted (hotel extension and media centre were great signings that contributed little to the actual football side of things but showed where priorities lay with SJM - indeed what does the media centre contribute given that in a supposed modern stadium Sky/ITV have to build their own studio in the South Stand for televised games).

In short we are where we are given the chairman's business model - we are going through the coaches who can't manage stage and looking for the new Pardew to grind out a stay in the championship which has looked very unlikely since the completely bodged start to the season (at least the club realised early that we had the new Tommy Burns and got rid, and it looks like we have Terry the Taxi as his replacement). If recent RFC football cycle continues (and I don't think we have reached the nadir yet, there is still more sh*te to come) we can expect division one for several years before we stumble on the new messiah who will produce a side that massively overachieves on the resources given to it.

The only likely variant I can see is how long SJM will stick it out at RFC - if he really has had enough and has severe business problems elsewhere then there is little chance of future funding for quite some time. Would he sell up? unlikely if he can't get his money back. Would he fold the football club and rent out the stadium to another sporting entity (we already have rugby but the business model is there)? Again unlikely at present but maybe if things became really bad he could consider. Would he just stop going to games if there were protests and just let things bottom out for this particular economic and football cycle - much more likely leaving the charmless Howe to face the music in a half empty stadium.

Equally it difficult to see why RFC sees itself as unique - look at what has happened at Norwich in similar circumstances to ours - scarily we appear to have found the new Bryn Gunn; Derby have hardly set the division alight since relegation; this division and the one below are used to clubs who have had their year or two in the sun and have paid dearly for not being able to handle the financial drop after relegation.

SJM for better or worse is the only game in town and fans who think that there are queues of people out there prepared to p*ss money up against the wall for football success without financial recompense from mortgaging the future will be disappointed - yes there are asset strippers who would shaft the club, and people with longer memories can recall what it is like to have a really sh*t board and a bunch of asset strippers like Maxwell around and should blush at some of the comments they are coming out with.