Back from the game - Barnsley (h)

[Maguire]

Agree with your comments about the defence. We've actually got some good players for this level across the back now, and I think Mills is starting to grow into his role somewhat, even if he still looks raw.

Some of the defending in the Rodgers era was a real nadir I must say.

[Whore Jackie]

First time I've seen Griffin in the flesh and he looks to be a superb acquisition. Keeps it nice and simple, solid, accurate passing, the occasional foray forward, but above all, he really organises that defence. Lost count of the number of times he told Federici what to do, when to come. Good move by McDermott.

[Snowball]

Griffin looks like he'd be a good permanent signing and a future captain

[BR2]

Totally agree on that sentiment WR, but I don't think 'playing effectively' usually aims to constantly misplacing passes, taking the wrong option when in dangerous positions, miscontrolling the ball back to the opposition and knocking it out of play instead of to your team mate!

Coppell's team was an effective and functional team for the majority of the time (and didn't aim to keep the ball and pass the ball for the sake of it) and it was successful for the most part, right up until the players weren't good enough to compete at the level we were playing. What we saw on Saturday wasn't a team playing 'effective football,' it was a team making basic mistakes but got away with it.

I'm chuffed to bits we won, but I won't get carried away with what I saw.

I agree with you HB.
"Back from the game" topics as I see it are reading about how fans saw that particular match and I think you summed it up well.
Some people saw it as an improvement because of the 3 points whereas others saw it as no improvement in a scrappy game that still yielded a valuable 3 points.
Donny away will show whether that "improvement" is maintained and fortunately the game is on the box so more people will be able to comment from what they have seen rather than often happens when they comment on what they have heard on the radio which is hardly the same.

BTW I said in the first half when a cross whizzed across our area and just needed a touch that people will forget how close they came to scoring just like in previous seasons when so many forgot when Marcus kept us in games.
Mind you some people also missed the terrible attempt at a finish on his left foot by Long in the first half so it's no surprise that people have seen a different match.
IMHO the game was a terrible advert for Championship football-let's hope the Donny game shows us in the same light as the excellent FA Cup performances and with the same end product.

[Hoop Blah]

Not just Karacan WR, the whole of the front six really!

Agreed that we look a lot more solid at the back now. I wonder how much of that is just down to the personell settling into a unit now and how much is from changes that McDermott has introduced to training or what they're being asked to do.

Someone said a while back that we'd tried to get Griffin in the summer when Rosenoir left. Thats interesting if it's true as it shows that Rodgers wasn't just comfortable going with Cummings as his right back.

[Plymouth_Royal]

Anyone who thought we played well on Sunday was watching a different game to me.

We got a great result from what was quite an open game between two sides who couldn't keep the ball if their lives depended on it.

To those who said the performance doesn't matter it's all about the result. I agree to a certain extent, but that's what everyone said before last Christmas when I said we were winning games but not playing well. In the long run you'll get the results your performances deserve and we have to play better than that if we're going to stay up as we won't be playing many more teams as poor as Barnsley were.

Good post and I really can't see how Barnsley are above us but never mind. McDermott is clearly trying to reinstall the Coppell way of playing and I'm worried by this. Hoofball, no creativity, experienced but crap players and predictability. His team selection is starting to worry me as well. 2 DM's and our best CM is being played on the wing. Siggy will always cut inside and when other teams get better at preventing this we loose another creative spark. McAnuff is not always going to play well and completely rinse his opposite number. Then what are we left with....long hopeful balls to strikers short on confidence and service. If we're going to get out of this mess we need to really go for it from the off and that means positive team selection. 2 wingers, a creative midfielder and someone like Gunnarsson or Karacan moping up. Or even a 4-5-1 with 2 wingers and 2 creative midfielders. I know he's a nice guy and been here for 10 years, but I don't want to go back to the ways of old. Where we began a gradual demise to an average championship team that goes on about how we USED to be good and deserve to be in the premiership.

[Plymouth_Royal]

Not just Karacan WR, the whole of the front six really!

Agreed that we look a lot more solid at the back now. I wonder how much of that is just down to the personell settling into a unit now and how much is from changes that McDermott has introduced to training or what they're being asked to do.

Someone said a while back that we'd tried to get Griffin in the summer when Rosenoir left. Thats interesting if it's true as it shows that Rodgers wasn't just comfortable going with Cummings as his right back.

Yep. One thing a lot of people forget is that all clubs, even Reading, make lots of enquiries about players coming for loan or permanently and don't always get picked up by the media or mentioned on the OS. It's quite possible Rodgers tried to bring in Griffin as well as some other experienced heads but got knocked back. Unfortunately, Reading TRY to keep it so secretive that the fans start coming to ridiculous suggestions about lack of effort being made for signings or bringing in the wrong players.

[brendywendy]

anyone who thought we played well on Sunday was watching a different game to me.

nope exactly thesame one- still thought we played ok, maybe not well, but certrainly not awful- limiting the oppo to 1-2 chances while creating 5-6 ourselves is ideal as far as im concerned

McDermott is clearly trying to reinstall the Coppell way of playing and I'm worried by this. Hoofball, no creativity, experienced but crap players and predictability. His team selection is starting to worry me as well. 2 DM's and our best CM is being played on the wing. Then what are we left with....long hopeful balls to strikers short on confidence and service. If we're going to get out of this mess we need to really go for it from the off and that means positive team selection. 2 wingers, a creative midfielder and someone like Gunnarsson or Karacan moping up. but I don't want to go back to the ways of old. Where we began a gradual demise to an average championship team that goes on about how we USED to be good and deserve to be in the premiership.

so the coppell way was playing hoofball?, no creativity? experienced but crap players?
eh?

arguably the sidwell harper consisted of two pretty defensively minded midfielders when we didnt have the ball, enabling our wingers to bomb on.

its been shown over and over again that we can struggle in the middle with a Attacking Midfielder on the field, leaving our back 4 over exposed

that last 2 sentences makes no sense, ive never heard anyone going on about how we used to be good and deserve to be in the prem.

[Hoop Blah]

Coppell's teams were certainly pretty direct brendy yes. And usually played two defensively capable midfield players with, especially in the case of Sidwell the ability to get forward and support the front two. We never really had that 'creative midfielder' that some think you need. We tried to integrate one when Coppell signed Matejovksy but I don't think he was ever comfortable trying to squeeze that kind of player in.

That's the way Coppell's teams have always lined up, and I don't see too much problem with it either as long as the two winger and the centre forwards (and fullbacks to a lesser extent) are good enough to make you chances.

Even the Championship winning side was quite direct at times, we were definately never much of a passing side. That've probably why Harper got some of the stick he did, because he was the only one that seemed to want to keep possession at the expensive of playing the percentage channel ball.

[Plymouth_Royal]

anyone who thought we played well on Sunday was watching a different game to me.

nope exactly thesame one- still thought we played ok, maybe not well, but certrainly not awful- limiting the oppo to 1-2 chances while creating 5-6 ourselves is ideal as far as im concerned

McDermott is clearly trying to reinstall the Coppell way of playing and I'm worried by this. Hoofball, no creativity, experienced but crap players and predictability. His team selection is starting to worry me as well. 2 DM's and our best CM is being played on the wing. Then what are we left with....long hopeful balls to strikers short on confidence and service. If we're going to get out of this mess we need to really go for it from the off and that means positive team selection. 2 wingers, a creative midfielder and someone like Gunnarsson or Karacan moping up. but I don't want to go back to the ways of old. Where we began a gradual demise to an average championship team that goes on about how we USED to be good and deserve to be in the premiership.

so the coppell way was playing hoofball?, no creativity? experienced but crap players?
eh?

arguably the sidwell harper consisted of two pretty defensively minded midfielders when we didnt have the ball, enabling our wingers to bomb on.

its been shown over and over again that we can struggle in the middle with a Attacking Midfielder on the field, leaving our back 4 over exposed

that last 2 sentences makes no sense, ive never heard anyone going on about how we used to be good and deserve to be in the prem.

To answer your first question yes. It worked effectively for 2 years because everyone had a clear role and did it superbly. Unfortunately this was his only tactic, and then followed 2 years of dire performances and failure.

Sidwell was box to box, Harper just directed traffic. As someone else mentioned Harper got a lot of stick because he seemingly seemed to pass for the sake of it when most of the team were playing direct. My problem with Harper was that he would ignore an attacking pass and just play it safe or sideways when partnered with a DM. Don't even try to say Harper was a DM when he couldn't tackle or win a fecking header.

Playing with an attacking midfielder was rarely tried until Rodgers came in. Coppell tried it a couple of times but we had a dodgy defence and weak DM's. When Rodgers tried it, we at least had some good performances but just no good strikers to finish things off and too much pressure on the defence as a result.

I've heard plenty of fans and of course Mr Mad think we're good enough for the Prem.

[brendywendy]

im not picking at you, but

To answer your first question yes. It worked effectively for 2 years because everyone had a clear role and did it superbly. Unfortunately this was his only tactic, and then followed 2 years of dire performances and failure.

he changed tactics and formation lots in the prem, often successfully - and i still challenge you on your "experienced but crap" players line, as many were neither. and i dont believe it was "long ball" or route one. yes we got it out to the wings and into danger areas quickly, but it was rarely long ball when we were successful.

Sidwell was box to box, Harper just directed traffic. As someone else mentioned Harper got a lot of stick because he seemingly seemed to pass for the sake of it when most of the team were playing direct. My problem with Harper was that he would ignore an attacking pass and just play it safe or sideways when partnered with a DM. Don't even try to say Harper was a DM when he couldn't tackle or win a fecking header.

harps may not tackle brilliantly, he just prefferred to marshall and sheppard instead.both equally good tactics.
always kept the ball and kept it cycling, just as important to the higher profile sidwell, and LOL at ignoring the attacking passes. set up many many goals with sliderule passes.he ignored the more attacking passes when they were more likely to fail.to downgrade his contribution to that of "directing traffic" is revisionism of the highest order.

Playing with an attacking midfielder was rarely tried until Rodgers came in. Coppell tried it a couple of times but we had a dodgy defence and weak DM's. When Rodgers tried it, we at least had some good performances but just no good strikers to finish things off and too much pressure on the defence as a result.

meh

I've heard plenty of fans and of course Mr Mad think we're good enough for the Prem

eh?
who?
not even the rosyest of the rose tinteds would say that

[winchester_royal]

LOL @ calling Murty, Shorey, Sonko (pre-injury), Little, Seol, Harper, Sidwell, Convey, Hunt, Doyle, Kits, Lita...etc, crap.

[Woodcote Royal]

Anyone who thought we played well on Sunday was watching a different game to me.

I stand by my earlier post and the Barnsley report above seems to bear that out so I clearly saw a different game.

But, then again, I went on Saturday where as you appear to have turned up a day late.

Were Irish playing yesterday

[West Stand Man]

q
Good post and I really can't see how Barnsley are above us but never mind. McDermott is clearly trying to reinstall the Coppell way of playing and I'm worried by this. Hoofball, no creativity, experienced but crap players and predictability. His team selection is starting to worry me as well.

That wouldn't be the style that got us to our best ever season and saw us have a superb first season in the PL then would it?

[Wax Jacket]

LOL @ calling Murty, Shorey, Sonko (pre-injury), Little, Seol, Harper, Sidwell, Convey, Hunt, Doyle, Kits, Lita...etc, crap.

and to say that lot resorted to hoofball is just laughable

[Thaumagurist*]

Griffin looks like he'd be a good permanent signing and a future captain

He made the comment upon joining us that he wasn't looking to stay beyond this season. Make what you will of that.

As for people calling Coppell's way of playing as hoofball, that's utterly laughable. His system made use of the wingers more than other teams do these days.

[Hoop Blah]

They did make use of the wings but they were still pretty uptempo and direct, especially when Little was out of the team.

I wouldn't say it was hoofball (largely because I hate the cringeworthy term itself), but it was certainly not a measured passing game (not that it means it's less successful or attractive of course).

[Ian Royal]

The difference between Harper and Sidwell and any current pairing we have is that both Harper and Sidwell had athleticism, passing, attacking and defensive attributes.
Sidwell obviously better at tackling and shooting, Harper at the creative passing and distribution.

Now we have midfielders that have at best three of those attributes, in some cases two. I think the closest we get to Harper & Sidwell is a pairing of Karacan / Tabb & Sigurdsson / Howard.

I don't like the pairings McD is picking and against a competent and effective midfield they will be outplayed relatively easily in most games.

We played badly in midfield, I'd also say our defensive strength was partly a case of Barnsley being so poor. But we got away with it and created an unmissable chance thanks to their keeper. We don't manage many of those, so there is no evidence for me our scoring problems are being fixed. And against a better team our midfield not being able to hold the ball combined with the occasional defensive lapses will be punished, unlike on Saturday.

BUT the win is the important thing and with it we can now try for a little more confidence to build more results and better performances. I don't think the starting 11 is right yet, but it's not far off. We desperately need a run of another 2 - 4 games without a defeat and including at least one more win (preferably back to back wins) to give us some belief.

Most of our problems lie in panicking and overthinking. We're just so desperately low on confidence and belief it's untrue.

[handbags_harris]

I just laughed at them as I walked past. Complete neanderthaals! And people on here ask why there is no standing allowed in football grounds any more. I would hazard a guess and say that they were the cocks who were congregated towards the front of the South Stand.

And what difference does that make to the point you're attempting to get across?

You need an answer?

Erm, yes please. If I didn't need an answer, would I have asked the question?

[Factfinder]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/barnsley/8489658.stm

The Barnsley manager was very depressed after this.