Madejski confirms forget Premiership

[Terminal Boardom]

Re player wages, it's called market forces.

[Royal Rother]

Re player wages, it's called market forces.

Too simplistic. Look at what happened at W&E... the club attracted players who commanded higher wages than the club could actually afford and achieved promotion and cup success on the back of it. It took 5 years or more for the chickens to come home to roost and then the director walks away from £260k debt he'd created. That's not true market forces at work, that's cheating / falsifying the market.

Same applies (and will happen to) to the clubs who are paying more than they can afford in the professional ranks. I've been forecasting it for 4 years and it's slower happening than I thought - but I am convinced that large scale financial meltdown will happen unless there is an immediate change in the financial governance of the game. And even then it will probably happen anyway as it's just too late... incomes WILL drop over the next 2 years and hardly any clubs have the reserves to get them through tough / tougher times. The wealthy benefactors are going to get hacked off with it and pull out, etc. etc.

[readingbedding]

Who cares?
The game is bigger than all of this.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Re player wages, it's called market forces.

Too simplistic. Look at what happened at W&E... the club attracted players who commanded higher wages than the club could actually afford and achieved promotion and cup success on the back of it. It took 5 years or more for the chickens to come home to roost and then the director walks away from £260k debt he'd created. That's not true market forces at work, that's cheating / falsifying the market.

Same applies (and will happen to) to the clubs who are paying more than they can afford in the professional ranks. I've been forecasting it for 4 years and it's slower happening than I thought - but I am convinced that large scale financial meltdown will happen unless there is an immediate change in the financial governance of the game. And even then it will probably happen anyway as it's just too late... incomes WILL drop over the next 2 years and hardly any clubs have the reserves to get them through tough / tougher times. The wealthy benefactors are going to get hacked off with it and pull out, etc. etc.

Although external regulation will force change - slow change..... UEFA's Financial Fair Play regulations will affect things, and I hope the DCMS Enquiry into Football Governance will also have an effect.

But really the time is coming when people in charge of clubs will come to realise (like Dave Whelan has) that pumping money in and building up mountains of debt chasing a dream is futile, especially when that dream is unachievable as other have deeper pockets.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

If these rich people were giving the money then fine, but they do not, generally they lend it, and also borrow elsewhere. It is not sustainable, perhaps it is time to separate the clubs from the stadiums.

AT least at RFC the debts are no more than the cost of the infrastructure, so there is something backing the debts.

[RoyalBlue]

Madejski on BBC Berks this morning saying he is looking forward to promotion and the lads deserve it, good run of form and good set of players. Asked if he will invest(not personally) if we went up he said that if areas needed spending on then RFC would do it.

But last time we were up he went in print as stating that he recognised that the time would come when it would take 'big money and I mean seriously big money' to keep the club in the PL and that 'I don't want to be around when that time comes'.

Also, perhaps not surprisingly given the the above, he was extremely non-committal to the extent that Peach and Dellor were joking about editing the audio to make it sound like he had said that he would spend the money.

If we do go up this time then we go up without the debts of that last run, so technically we should have more cash to spend.

But in a much more expensive market.

Madejski's pockets, by his own admission, just aren't deep enough. I hope we go up for a year or two and if /when we drop again manage to bounce back at first attempt. "Doing a West Brom" is the best we can hope for. A year in the sun followed by a year of success, all the while strengthening the club for hopefully a longer stay.

The Bolton and Wigan models just don't bear thinking about. If Wigan come down they'll go out of business.

Cardiff have bet the mortgage (and then some) on going up this season. They'll go bust in the summer if they fail.

I like what Madejski stands for - I hope the League listens to him in Cyprus.

I doubt that will happen as there are still too many Chairman who appear to like to prove they are richer than their counterparts. It's a macho thing and has gone on for a long time with more and more money involved as time goes by. It was once reported (may not be true) that when John Madejski was travelling in one of his large Bentleys, he pulled up alongside Ken Bates who at the time was still Chairman of Chelsea. The story has it that Ken Bates wound down the window of his car and gestured to Madejski to do the same. When Madejski did, Bates said to him 'You may have a bigger car than me but you'll never have a bigger football club'.

What a shame Madejski isn't a tiny bit more competitive!

[ZacNaloen]

The lack of expenditure then was as much Coppells fault as anyone.

[Terminal Boardom]

Re player wages, it's called market forces.

Too simplistic. Look at what happened at W&E... the club attracted players who commanded higher wages than the club could actually afford and achieved promotion and cup success on the back of it. It took 5 years or more for the chickens to come home to roost and then the director walks away from £260k debt he'd created. That's not true market forces at work, that's cheating / falsifying the market.

Same applies (and will happen to) to the clubs who are paying more than they can afford in the professional ranks. I've been forecasting it for 4 years and it's slower happening than I thought - but I am convinced that large scale financial meltdown will happen unless there is an immediate change in the financial governance of the game. And even then it will probably happen anyway as it's just too late... incomes WILL drop over the next 2 years and hardly any clubs have the reserves to get them through tough / tougher times. The wealthy benefactors are going to get hacked off with it and pull out, etc. etc.

Of course it is simplistic. Fact is, it is a straight choice of either living within the financial limits within a club or taking the gamble on making an investment. I agree that investment should only occur if the money is available. SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

Personally, I would like to see football properly regulated and managed in this country. There has to be some sort of salary cap. There also has to be some sort of regulation regarding ticket prices. But I won't be holding my breath on this happening.

[Schards#2]

If we do go up this time then we go up without the debts of that last run, so technically we should have more cash to spend.

But in a much more expensive market.

Madejski's pockets, by his own admission, just aren't deep enough. I hope we go up for a year or two and if /when we drop again manage to bounce back at first attempt. "Doing a West Brom" is the best we can hope for. A year in the sun followed by a year of success, all the while strengthening the club for hopefully a longer stay.

The Bolton and Wigan models just don't bear thinking about. If Wigan come down they'll go out of business.

Cardiff have bet the mortgage (and then some) on going up this season. They'll go bust in the summer if they fail.

I like what Madejski stands for - I hope the League listens to him in Cyprus.

Wigan won't go out of business if they go down and Cardiff won't go bust if they stay down.

Just look at Portsmouth, months of talk of financial meltdown and there they sit happily pushing for the play offs with the likes of Kitson and Newgent leading the line.


DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying we should follow Porsmouth's business model, just stating that club's tend not to go under when push comes to shove.

[Royal Rother]

Re player wages, it's called market forces.

Too simplistic. Look at what happened at W&E... the club attracted players who commanded higher wages than the club could actually afford and achieved promotion and cup success on the back of it. It took 5 years or more for the chickens to come home to roost and then the director walks away from £260k debt he'd created. That's not true market forces at work, that's cheating / falsifying the market.

Same applies (and will happen to) to the clubs who are paying more than they can afford in the professional ranks. I've been forecasting it for 4 years and it's slower happening than I thought - but I am convinced that large scale financial meltdown will happen unless there is an immediate change in the financial governance of the game. And even then it will probably happen anyway as it's just too late... incomes WILL drop over the next 2 years and hardly any clubs have the reserves to get them through tough / tougher times. The wealthy benefactors are going to get hacked off with it and pull out, etc. etc.

Of course it is simplistic. Fact is, it is a straight choice of either living within the financial limits within a club or taking the gamble on making an investment. I agree that investment should only occur if the money is available. SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

Personally, I would like to see football properly regulated and managed in this country. There has to be some sort of salary cap. There also has to be some sort of regulation regarding ticket prices. But I won't be holding my breath on this happening.

I just typed up a long-ish reply (zzzzzz) about shares and loans not being the same and that he might well never receive the money back on the £20m+ loans that were converted to shares, but lost connection when Submitting and can't be bothered to go through it all again....

[Wycombe Royal]

SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

So by your theory then, if SJM was to "invest" £100m in to the club then he could just raise the asking price by £100m when he sells it, even if we are in the Championship?

[Terminal Boardom]

SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

So by your theory then, if SJM was to "invest" £100m in to the club then he could just raise the asking price by £100m when he sells it, even if we are in the Championship?

How much has he invested so far? And they key word in your statement is highlighted. We all know that he will not put that sort of money into the club now so bit of a pointless comment don't you think?

[Terminal Boardom]

Good to hear Madejski say this and also I'm impressed at his apology in reference to the Man City ticket cock up

Where was that apology. I seem to have missed it.

[Svlad Cjelli]

SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

So by your theory then, if SJM was to "invest" £100m in to the club then he could just raise the asking price by £100m when he sells it, even if we are in the Championship?

The reason that he won't put £100m into the club is that there are no guarantees. If three or more other teams put £120m into the club (whether they have it or not, or as an accumulation of debt or unpaid taxes) it means that his £100m is wasted.

No-one with the any sense would allow themselves to get dragged into a financial pissing race like that - there are no winners.

[Wycombe Royal]

SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

So by your theory then, if SJM was to "invest" £100m in to the club then he could just raise the asking price by £100m when he sells it, even if we are in the Championship?

How much has he invested so far? And they key word in your statement is highlighted. We all know that he will not put that sort of money into the club now so bit of a pointless comment don't you think?

I was just highlighting that the risk is not offset by the fact that he will get his investment back. There are no guarantees and he just raise the price to get his investment back.

I'm sorry for highlighting an obvious flaw in your logic.

[PieEater]

Personally I don't really want promotion, just think of what it does to the fans:
- ticket prices shoot up
- tickets become harder to get
- games move to stupid times
- we'd be playing every game counting shots on target with little hope of winning

I'm quite happy being competitive in the championship.

[brendywendy]

Personally I don't really want promotion, just think of what it does to the fans:
- ticket prices shoot up- tickets become harder to get
- games move to stupid times
- we'd be playing every game counting shots on target with little hope of winning

I'm quite happy being competitive in the championship.

not if you renew by april!

[ZacNaloen]

Suddenly it doesn't seem like such a bad deal

[Jeffers217]

Good to hear Madejski say this and also I'm impressed at his apology in reference to the Man City ticket cock up

Where was that apology. I seem to have missed it.

It was in the paper last week- either the chronicle or the post but it's the first time I've heard an apology like that from him before!

[RoyalBlue]

SJM has put a considerable amount of money into the club but it is all covered off by loans. In all fairness, his risk is offset by the fact that when someone buys the club from him he will get his investment back.

So by your theory then, if SJM was to "invest" £100m in to the club then he could just raise the asking price by £100m when he sells it, even if we are in the Championship?

Now that really is hypothetical!

How much has he invested, loaned and/or given so far?

Lots of people, including accountants, giving their views on the accounts, but I can't recall anyone providing hard figures in answer to that question.