Goals scored after Church has been taken off .........

[marekisgod]

Can any of you 'statto's' tell me how many goals we've scored after Church has been substitued but has started the game and points won etc ?

In my humble opinion he doesn't contribute anything to the team , and BM shows him far too much loyalty that other players dont seem to get (Jobi the exception).



Shoot me down in flames .................

[Snowball]

Just the stats. Make up your own mind



RFC have Played 0,914 Minutes for 07 Team Goals - a goal every 131 Minutes - Church on Pitch
RFC have Played 0,786 Minutes for 14 Team Goals - a goal every 056 Minutes - Church off Pitch


We have won just one game with Church starting

Two thirds of our wins have come from games where Church was subbed off and we then scored goals

5/6th of our wins have come from goals when Church was not on the pitch


11 (4) Appearances, RFC scoring 2 Goals 7 Goals by the team as a whole









SUBBED OFF at Bristol. 3 Goals then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF at Barnsley. 1 Goal then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF v Birmingham. 1 Goal then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF v Ipswich. 3 Goals then scored. WON

8 goals scored after Churchy subbed



2 Goals v Millwall Did Not Start DREW
2 Goals v Leicester Did Not Start WON
1 Goals v Barnsley. Came on 87th minute after all goals LOST

5 Goals scored when Churchy was not playing




1 Goals v Charlton, Church starting and on pitch. LOST
2 Goals v Doncaster, Church starting and on pitch. SCORED. WON
1 Goals v Coventry, Church starting and on pitch. SCORED. DREW
0 Goals v BORO, Church starting and on pitch for 82 Minutes. DREW
2 Goals v Derby, Church starting and on pitch. (Half-Asist) DREW
1 Goals v SAINTS, Church starting and on pitch. DREW
0 Goals v Palace, Church starting and on pitch for 79 Minutes DREW. (Disallowed Goal on 90 after Church subbed)

7 Goals scored with Churchy starting and on the pitch.



0 Goals v Watford (Church on as sub in 76th Minute)

[Royal Rother]

Answer?

Church runs 'em ragged then the subs come on and take advantage of his good work!

Maybe.

[1871 Royal]

Answer?

Church runs 'em ragged then the subs come on and take advantage of his good work!

Maybe.

This is what I was just thinking, however stats can and will always be manipulated by people who want to believe different things and the same set of stats can be used to fuel two opposing arguments.

[Ian Royal]

Answer?

Church runs 'em ragged then the subs come on and take advantage of his good work!

Maybe.

This is what I was just thinking, however stats can and will always be manipulated by people who want to believe different things and the same set of stats can be used to fuel two opposing arguments.

It's possible, I think it's unlikely. In general you're spot on about the stats though. It's all on interpretation and they can be misleading because they give you very far from the whole picture.

[1871 Royal]

'Zactly

One view : Church runs the defenders into the ground, sub comes on and takes advantage of defenders tiredness because of Church's work.

Second view : Church is shit as we can't seem to score with him on the pitch and we score our most once he has been subbed .... logic dictates that the players replacing him are better therefore I HATE SIMON CHURCH*

*I actually don't hate him, I really want to like him and its so frustrating!

[Ian Royal]

'Zactly

One view : Church runs the defenders into the ground, sub comes on and takes advantage of defenders tiredness because of Church's work.

Second view : Church is shit as we can't seem to score with him on the pitch and we score our most once he has been subbed .... logic dictates that the players replacing him are better therefore I HATE SIMON CHURCH*

*I actually don't hate him, I really want to like him and its so frustrating!

We haven't scored late in either of the games he's been on all 90 minutes so View One seems less likely to me. (10, 52 & 59).

Although, interestingly Church has scored in both the two games he hasn't been taken off.

[Snowball]

Guys, I merely posted the stats and have voiced no opinion.

As for "Church runs them ragged, and then..."


How would that account for him coming on and not scoring,
how does it account for us scoring when he doesn't come on at all?

Maybe he stares very hard at opposition defenders from the bench?

[Wimb]

Maybe there is no pattern to be had. I think the fact we've scored 3 times in the last 15 minutes certainly distorts the picture somewhat. Still think we're too early in the season to be making any solid judgements. Interesting stats none the less though, really am appreciating this less rabid and more open Snowball

[teignmouth hoops]

He simply isn't good enough, for a full international his first touch is woeful, yes he runs round alot taking the defenders with him and his stamina is very good, but he needs a bit of nastiness to his game. I feel he would benefit big time from a loan spell one div down to a good side, but then that is probably his level

[mr_number]

Guys, I merely posted the stats and have voiced no opinion.

As for "Church runs them ragged, and then..."


How would that account for him coming on and not scoring,
how does it account for us scoring when he doesn't come on at all?

Maybe he stares very hard at opposition defenders from the bench?

Well, he can make the defenders run around without really threatening goal, so that accounts for him coming on and not scoring.
And, as for us scoring when he doesn't come on at all, that may be related to the fact we have other players in the team.

After Saturday, both me and my mate felt he'd had quite a lot of the ball in the first half, and was moving with it a fair bit, without doing much. When you've got defenders like Ivar in there, that may be enough to tire them out? Alfie certainly outpaced whoever he was running with for the third goal. Not sure how this point applies to their shoddy marking for the first two.

[melonhead]

*I actually don't hate him, I really want to like him and its so frustrating!

^^^^ this, cmon churchy m8- running out of time- youve had half a season of regular 1st team footy, its time to get a grip and start scoring.

Pleeeeaaaaaase

[marekisgod]

I recall that Church's one goal when we did in fact win was against Doncaster , where the ball practically hit him after someone had shot and it come back off the keeper from 5 yards out !

[strap]

Church has made 46 league starts scoring 9 goals (1 gl every 5.111 games). He has made 41 league substitute appearances, scoring 8 goals (1 gl every 5.125 subs).

So not only do we score more goals after he has been substituted, HE also scpres more goals when he comes on as a sub.

If I could be arsed to work out actual minutes on the pitch, I dare say his minutes per goal record as a sub is miles better than his minutes per goal record starting.

In theory then, it clearly makes more sense to use Church as a sub, full stop.

[exileinleeds]

Out of interest, how long was Long with us before he was any good?

[biff]

+1

[M-U-R-T-Y]

Out of interest, how long was Long with us before he was any good?

About 4 years

[Franchise FC]

I recall that Church's one goal when we did in fact win was against Doncaster , where the ball practically hit him after someone had shot and it come back off the keeper from 5 yards out !

I appreciate it's a long time ago, and you may not even have been at the game, but please .......

Long ball bouncing in the area, keeper challenged by Alfie (and a Doncaster defender), keeper drops ball and Church fires into the empty net.

Where was the shot that came back off the keeper to hit him ?
Church made sure he was in the right place to take advantage.



He still shouldn't be starting IMHO

[RoyalJames101]

We have won just one game with Church starting

SUBBED OFF at Bristol. 3 Goals then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF at Barnsley. 1 Goal then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF v Birmingham. 1 Goal then scored. WON
SUBBED OFF v Ipswich. 3 Goals then scored. WON

Urm?

[marekisgod]

2 more last night , im sorry but it really is time he was rested permanently , and yes I know he scored but my mum could have scored it (and she hasnt played in years) !