Back from the Arsenal game/TV

[cmonurz]

MY point was we lose more often when Guthrie plays (4/5) and are undefeated in normal time when he doesn't.

They are facts

Fine, but that's not really anything to do with a discussion about playing styles.

[cmonurz]

But that's not really my point, it's about us having a squad and being able to adapt our game as we need to, using their abilities. I don't think telling Guthrie that we play in one style, and that he has to learn it if he wants to play, is the right approach.

hes not good enough to build a style around imo, and your point ignores the fact that wanting a squad thats able to change styles at will =/= having a squad able to change styles at will

Well I've already argued that we potentially could have, if management are willing to coach it. So I guess we'll leave this there.

[mr_number]

Cmonurzers, I do agree having multiple styles would be great, but since we haven't really got one working at the moment, it seems quite an ambitious target. Hence I'd go with the one that appears to be working best at the moment, and keep practicing the others in training etc.

[Vision]

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

As an example, I'd say the first half at Liverpool says it's not better, but I'm sure there are examples each way. Just think having two up front gives us way more in terms of outlets, and opportunities to hold possession more, if we are going to maintain our more direct style of play. 4411 or 451 means that we only have one target man, and since our wide men are often being pushed back this season, the lone striker has had a really hard time.

As with everything there are plusses and minuses. If Hunt is one of the front two then he's not that could at holding the ball up so what we end up doing is lofting the ball in his general direction to win headers and flick the ball on. He's very good at this to be fair but it's hardly a blueprint for keeping possession as it's a percentage tactic. Roberts is good at running the channels, whilst Pog's first touch is better than the others but none of them protects the ball particularly well in my opinion.

It's futile comparing this side to 05-07 I know but playing 2 up front did give us a handle on possession then because imho kitson was the best target man we ever had and Doyle too held the ball up very well. In fact watching Shorey's return to the side I'm being reminded of just how good his link with Kitson was.

With all the talk of tactics it should be noted that McD's strength has always been his ability to eventually work out a strategy to best suit the players at his disposal and then run with it pretty much for the rest of the season. He's tried to play a more tighter more defensive 4-5-1 and its generally resulted in us losing to a single goal and creating very little. The more gung-ho 442 has seen us draw most games and although we obviously need to start picking up wins a draw isn't actually to be sniffed at when you're in a relegation scrap as we are. The fact that we have lead in most of those draws suggests that the starting formation isn't as much of an issue as finding a different way of protecting a lead than the one he did in the championship where we would generally keep 2 forwards on the pitch and he'd bring on Church on to chase and close down high up the pitch.

[winchester_royal]

Noel Hunt on radio this morning made a very good point

he said


We don't have the players to slow it down and play "pretty football at the opposition's pace"

THEY want it slowed down, but we are much better at a high tempo and pressing

It's our game. We should play our game and not allow the opposition to make us play slower
which gives them an advantage.

That's great and all, but we can't maintain that tempo for 90 minutes so it's a moot point.

[Vision]

Noel Hunt on radio this morning made a very good point

he said


We don't have the players to slow it down and play "pretty football at the opposition's pace"

THEY want it slowed down, but we are much better at a high tempo and pressing

It's our game. We should play our game and not allow the opposition to make us play slower
which gives them an advantage.

That's great and all, but we can't maintain that tempo for 90 minutes so it's a moot point.

They don't want it slowed down when there's 20 minutes to go and they're 2 goals down either.

[Sagaris]

I find it amusing that Wenger is getting the credit for a great half-time team talk to fire up his boys at 4-1 down. Listening to the Gooner's talking about their belief and confidence in him over the past 2 days has made me smile but I suspect Wenger shares some similar problems with his masters above with BM.

As many have suggested on here, there must be some serious issues within our dressing room to produce such an inept second half display. I'm sick of listening to BM on 'Talk Bollocks' Radio, talking about our team ethics, playing the game the right way and then he had the nerve to say that Spurs at home, was the only game where we haven't competed this season. Our only saving grace is that the dressing rooms at QPR and Soton are probably equally discordant.

Pearce was our best and most consistent performer last season and IMHO, he is our only true premiership quality player and in todays market, he probably could get £40K a week elsewhere. But to have him sitting on the side-lines suggests to me that Anton Blofeld Zingarevich's sticky paws are at the route of our dressing room morale problems. So is BM still picking the team or are those players outspoken about the Pog's ridiculous contract now blackballed?

This has the smell of a certain young Russian called Smolenski who very quickly screwed upTVR Cars of Blackpool; he managed to take the business to the wall within 2 years of buying it (with his old man's loose change)...

[Ian Royal]

The kneejerk reactions in this thread are terrific. Top stuff.

I'm sure McD will be setting the record straight with the players that letting a team come back from 4-0 down is simply unacceptable.

If he's savvy he'll be able to take a lot away from the performance - work out what isn't working and what is so that when it's time to play QPR, the team will be raring to go.

I'm not sure. He hasn't spotted the issue during or after Newcastle, Swansea or Fulham. Why start now.

Spotting the problem is one thing - and it's absurd to suggest that he didn't notice us get overrun in midfield.

Being able to do something about it is rather different. Who exactly are these players we could bring in to suddenly become defensively solid?

If he'd have noticed, I'd have thought the obvious thing to do would be to pad out midfield and go one upfront, especially whilst ahead. Or at least freshen up legs in midfield. He could have done that.

[Ian Royal]

That's rubbish brendy.

excellent argumant

every game hes played-stoke aside- we have been overrun in the middle. imo

It's rubbish because in only one other game this season have we conceeded even half as many goals.
Whenhe's played we've conceeded 1, 4, 1(iirc). When he hasn't we've conceeded 3, 2, 2, 7. Can't recall whether he played in the other two cup games or against West Brom. I may have got Spurs the wrong way round.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Reading FC ‏@ReadingFC
Tuesday night has gone but let's remember our contribution to an #extraordinary night - the world really took notice. http://rdng.co/Ru9Erh

ALOL. Yeh, took notice of what a bunch of bottle jobs we are.

[facaldaqui]

MY point was we lose more often when Guthrie plays (4/5) and are undefeated in normal time when he doesn't.

They are facts

I would bet that in the last few years we lose more when we play a "creative" midfielder. You showed it with Sigurdsson; I bet the same is true with Howard and Marek.

[facaldaqui]

I find it amusing that Wenger is getting the credit for a great half-time team talk to fire up his boys at 4-1 down. Listening to the Gooner's talking about their belief and confidence in him over the past 2 days has made me smile but I suspect Wenger shares some similar problems with his masters above with BM.

As many have suggested on here, there must be some serious issues within our dressing room to produce such an inept second half display. I'm sick of listening to BM on 'Talk Bollocks' Radio, talking about our team ethics, playing the game the right way and then he had the nerve to say that Spurs at home, was the only game where we haven't competed this season. Our only saving grace is that the dressing rooms at QPR and Soton are probably equally discordant.

Pearce was our best and most consistent performer last season and IMHO, he is our only true premiership quality player and in todays market, he probably could get £40K a week elsewhere. But to have him sitting on the side-lines suggests to me that Anton Blofeld Zingarevich's sticky paws are at the route of our dressing room morale problems. So is BM still picking the team or are those players outspoken about the Pog's ridiculous contract now blackballed?

This has the smell of a certain young Russian called Smolenski who very quickly screwed upTVR Cars of Blackpool; he managed to take the business to the wall within 2 years of buying it (with his old man's loose change)...

Steady on. The margins are very fine. Newcastle's Ba handball goal lost us a match we should have won. Even on Tuesday we should have won if the sending off had taken place and the extra minutes hadn't been added. And we were in the game until the last minutes of extra time. I have belief in Brian; but we are a few players short yet, which is to be expected after our promotion. Far from being short on morale, I believe we show outstanding morale. Did we give up on Tuesday? Never.

[moonwalklikebas]

Arsenal player Thomas Eisfeld the no. 46 I think. 100x better than frimpong, changed the game in their favour, took our midfield out of the game and made ledge look like a truck driver.....It was his first team debut.

Embarrassed much!

[wingnut]

IMHO the problem with playing Guthrie is that Brian believes it can only be in a 4411 or a 451 formation as he clearly wants two defensive central midfielders to give his central defenders cover (whether that plan is working is, of course, a moot point!).

If we play in the 4411 or 451 formation, we cause fewer attacking problems for our opponents, which as well as meaning we have less goal-scoring chances, leads to greater pressure on our midfield and more chances against us (Swansea away anyone??).

I believe our only hope is to keep on with a straight 442, with two attacking wingers, and have a go at teams; this tactic worked for nearly an hour on Tuesday night, but sadly, I'd suggest that for this tactic to work wholly effectively, we need (in key positions) better calibre players than we currently have in order to deliver consistently over the 90+ minutes of a game.

As a result, in my opinion, Guthrie simply isn't the answer at this time.

Agreed. It also depends on who the front 2 are; both Hunt and Roberts do a good job of dropping deep and harrying the opposition midfield when we don't have the ball. Pog, and to a lesser extent Alf, don't tend to do this.