Norwich fan in peace

[CanaryCanary]

Hi guys,

I come in peace (never had any reason to either dislike or like reading, unless you can think of one, plus I can't stand QPR and if you can contribute towards their relegation in any way this season then that will be reason to like you).

I stumbled across this board out of interest to see whether Reading fans saw a dire performance like Norwich fans, or whether it was seen as a positive result and performance. If it makes you feel any better that's the second ridiculously awful game of football that I've had to watch in a week.... we had Stoke at home last Saturday.

It's unusual that I choose to sign up to a board to chip in, but in this case I felt that I had something to add to the debate which might make you feel a bit better. Getting men behind the ball and allowing the opposition team to have a fair bit of possession in the right parts of the pitch is Hughton's gameplan and invariably it results in the awful football that you watched today. After shipping in 9 goals in two games, plus the 5 that we shipped at home to Fulham at the start of the season, he has just gone right back to basics and adopted a Stoke like system at times. I don't think that your wasteful possession today was anything to do with a poor performance from your players but rather not having a clue how to play against our system.

You just played a team that is unbeaten in four games, we've won three of those games against Spurs, Arsenal, and Stoke, and we have seen a lot of the ugly football that you witnessed today. Ultimately though, you got a point from a team that had just won three of their last four games, only conceding two goals in the process.

We aren't scoring goals for fun like we did last year, and when we attack attack attack we end up on the wrong side of a hiding. Last season we'd have attacked all game, both teams would have been able to get the ball down and play, and we probably would have seen one of the two teams leave the ground having won 3-2.

I don't think that you should be so down on your performance to be honest, we are extremely difficult to break down at the minute. We are at real danger of developing a reputation as one of those teams who play bad football but pick up lots of points at this rate, and if that happens in due course I'll start to get embarrassed, but for now we are doing what we are having to do to get away from the drop zone. I don't want to talk about Norwich too much, because I'll bore you, but we personally hope that Hughton can add a striker or two in the summer and that this will see us playing passing some nice positive passing football again.

Now I want to talk about Reading. I've seen a lot of criticism of McDermott, but blimey, isn't he doing the best that he could be expected to do considering the fact that he was given nothing to spend? Reading have spent nothing, nada, zilch. You are now playing in the best league in the world, I believe I'm correct in saying that he's been restricted to free agents and a couple of signings from the championship. There are probably five or six Championship teams operating on bigger budgets this season.

We were deemed to have underinvested last summer and were faves to finish 20th despite spending a lot more than Reading. That said, we were favorites for relegation again this season, not quite sure how that works.

A lot of pundits were predicting good things for Reading this year, but most fans were not when it became apparent that you weren't prepared to spend any money. The optimism of the pundits obviously came about having seen Swansea and Norwich thrive last season while still playing the brand of football that they developed in the Championship, and figured that because Reading played good football too you would be fine.

The reality is that Norwich and Swansea spent a good £10m to £12m in their first summer, I'm not sure about Swansea but we spent a further £6m in January on Johnny Howson and Ryan Bennett, and this summer we've probably gone and spent another £10m, I'd like to think that there is another £6m for Hughton to buy the striker that we desperately need in January.

Those numbers are chicken feed in this league. If Reading go down this season it won't be because McDermott has mispent money and got things wrong, it will be because he hasn't been backed in the transfer market. We made exactly the same mistake in 2004/2005 when we spent peanuts in the summer, and then went and bought Dean Ashton in January (five months too late).

I'm not here to preach, but I doubt that there are any managers who could be doing any better this season considering the circumstances. It reminds me of Warnock who went through the same thing last summer. Given nothing to spend, and then Hughes gets £25m in January and takes the credit for finishing 17th.

I'd understand you wanting rid of him if you'd spent money in Southamption proportions. Why haven't you backed your man with money? (genuine question), could it be that it was considered too much of a risk? Are your club intending to yo-yo? And if you do go down with the intention to yo-yo, who else would you want in charge? You already have a man who has shown that he can get out of the championship.

Anyway, good luck with the season. Just my two pennies, just a bit surprised that Reading fans have so much expectation despite having largely a Championship quality squad (and no, that isn't a dig, that's a reality).

[Mondieu]

Think you'll find the negativity is down to us being irritated at going into the season with, as you rightly say, a championship squad.

Thanks for your kind words though.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Try telling that to people on here having a coronary because we're not tearing the league up.

- We've lost 3 games away - Liverpool, Chelsea & West Brom. Two of those by 1 goal & the other we got stitched by the ref.

- We've lost once at home to Spurs. All the other games we've got a result in. We also got diddled by the ref in the Newcastle game & were wrongly denied our 1st win minutes from time.

- We've scored quite a lot of goals & given our all generally.

- We got up here by what can only be described as an act of God or should I say act of Brian.

Now many of the very same are calling for his head. Go figure.

Anyway best of luck for the season apart from when we meet you again at Carrow Road.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

FTR Canary - the club has always been run this way. When the new owners came in, they made it absolutely clear things would carry on in the same vein yet many still see fit to spit feathers because we've not spent loads of money.

They never said they were going to!

[RoyalBlue]

Try telling that to people on here having a coronary because we're not tearing the league up.

- We've lost 3 games away - Liverpool, Chelsea & West Brom. Two of those by 1 goal & the other we got stitched by the ref.

- We've lost once at home to Spurs. All the other games we've got a result in. We also got diddled by the ref in the Newcastle game & were wrongly denied our 1st win minutes from time.

- We've scored quite a lot of goals & given our all generally.

- We got up here by what can only be described as an act of God or should I say act of Brian.

Now many of the very same are calling for his head. Go figure.

Anyway best of luck for the season apart from when we meet you again at Carrow Road.

All very good but how convenient to fail to mention that, despite everything you have said, we only have 6 points from 10 games, sit in the bottom three and have some really tough games coming up.

As for draws at home being results..........

[AthleticoSpizz]

and (thanks CC btw), that's probably because of MaccyD being true to his word (much like Coppell did) of giving the fellahs that got us there their chance in this big pool that is the Prem.

Expect BIG changes in the Jan window despite BM talking it down (because unlike Coppells team of championship players who got us to eigth) so as we will survive and thrive.....some more of last seasons heroes will be loaned out

I reckon some folk on here will be quietly eating plenty of their own pie come springtime.

[bcubed]

Good well informed post CC
FTR I am flattered that Norwich came for a point

[CanaryCanary]

FTR Canary - the club has always been run this way. When the new owners came in, they made it absolutely clear things would carry on in the same vein yet many still see fit to spit feathers because we've not spent loads of money.

They never said they were going to!

It's a difficult balance to get right, but I do think that Reading needed to spend a bit more. Doesn't always work out though, just need to look at Southampton and QPR this season, but both Norwich and Swansea stayed up having bought a good four or five quality players and a few more to bulk up the squad.

In the past it has been said that a yo-yo or two isn't a bad thing, as you end up going back up stronger, but with the TV money being worth £60m next season rather than £40m.... I think that it's only going to get harder and harder for promoted teams to compete.

It would be a disaster for you to sack McDermott and then get relegated I think. It would be less of a disaster if you went down with McDermott with a healthy balance sheet with the willingness to keep players, add to your squad, and attempt to get straight back up.

West Brom absolutely mastered this and it paid off for them in the end, but 'coming back up' is easier said than done.... The Championship is a ridiculously competitive league, and when we went down last time in 2005 we found that going down with the intention to yo-yo didn't work out....

I want to stop talking about an impending relegation though, because there is a lot of football left to be played, you aren't getting thrashed, and it only takes a lucky win and a few decisions going your way to turn a season around. You have been the 3rd worst team in the league up to this point, and you only need to be the 4th worst to stay up.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Try telling that to people on here having a coronary because we're not tearing the league up.

- We've lost 3 games away - Liverpool, Chelsea & West Brom. Two of those by 1 goal & the other we got stitched by the ref.

- We've lost once at home to Spurs. All the other games we've got a result in. We also got diddled by the ref in the Newcastle game & were wrongly denied our 1st win minutes from time.

- We've scored quite a lot of goals & given our all generally.

- We got up here by what can only be described as an act of God or should I say act of Brian.

Now many of the very same are calling for his head. Go figure.

Anyway best of luck for the season apart from when we meet you again at Carrow Road.

All very good but how convenient to fail to mention that, despite everything you have said, we only have 6 points from 10 games, sit in the bottom three and have some really tough games coming up.

As for draws at home being results..........

Yes I am aware we are in the bottom 3. Every game is a tough game. This league is a lot lot harder than the championship. What were you expecting? It's a different animal entirely to when we came up in 06.

[SCIAG]

Now I want to talk about Reading. I've seen a lot of criticism of McDermott, but blimey, isn't he doing the best that he could be expected to do considering the fact that he was given nothing to spend? Reading have spent nothing, nada, zilch. You are now playing in the best league in the world, I believe I'm correct in saying that he's been restricted to free agents and a couple of signings from the championship. There are probably five or six Championship teams operating on bigger budgets this season.

We were deemed to have underinvested last summer and were faves to finish 20th despite spending a lot more than Reading. That said, we were favorites for relegation again this season, not quite sure how that works.

A lot of pundits were predicting good things for Reading this year, but most fans were not when it became apparent that you weren't prepared to spend any money. The optimism of the pundits obviously came about having seen Swansea and Norwich thrive last season while still playing the brand of football that they developed in the Championship, and figured that because Reading played good football too you would be fine.

The reality is that Norwich and Swansea spent a good £10m to £12m in their first summer, I'm not sure about Swansea but we spent a further £6m in January on Johnny Howson and Ryan Bennett, and this summer we've probably gone and spent another £10m, I'd like to think that there is another £6m for Hughton to buy the striker that we desperately need in January.

Those numbers are chicken feed in this league. If Reading go down this season it won't be because McDermott has mispent money and got things wrong, it will be because he hasn't been backed in the transfer market. We made exactly the same mistake in 2004/2005 when we spent peanuts in the summer, and then went and bought Dean Ashton in January (five months too late).

I'm not here to preach, but I doubt that there are any managers who could be doing any better this season considering the circumstances. It reminds me of Warnock who went through the same thing last summer. Given nothing to spend, and then Hughes gets £25m in January and takes the credit for finishing 17th.

I'd understand you wanting rid of him if you'd spent money in Southamption proportions. Why haven't you backed your man with money? (genuine question), could it be that it was considered too much of a risk? Are your club intending to yo-yo? And if you do go down with the intention to yo-yo, who else would you want in charge? You already have a man who has shown that he can get out of the championship.

Swansea spent around £6.75m last summer and £1.75m of that was on Leroy LOLita (secondary pun not intended). Norwich's fees were mostly undisclosed, Morison and Pilkington were good buys but you also wasted a lot of money on James Vaughan. We spent about the same on Gunter and Mariappa, and also offered big wages to Guthrie and particularly Pogrebnyak. Quite frankly, none of Norwich or Swansea's signings had the pedigree that those two free agents had (I think most were comparable to Gunter and Mariappa, amongst the best Championship players in their position), and I don't think we'd be better off if we'd decided to throw a million or two at a player like Lita or Vaughan.

We had a bid accepted for Gylfi Sigurdsson, but Spurs offered him more money and are a much bigger club than us so y'know.

Part of the problem is that McDermott is seemingly refusing to play two of our best players, and we're suffering as a result. I said at the start of the season that in my eyes he has the job as long as he wanted it, but he's made some pretty big mistakes this season that have cost us points, like not changing tactics to defend a lead, which is making it harder to defend him.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

FTR Canary - the club has always been run this way. When the new owners came in, they made it absolutely clear things would carry on in the same vein yet many still see fit to spit feathers because we've not spent loads of money.

They never said they were going to!

It's a difficult balance to get right, but I do think that Reading needed to spend a bit more. Doesn't always work out though, just need to look at Southampton and QPR this season, but both Norwich and Swansea stayed up having bought a good four or five quality players and a few more to bulk up the squad.

In the past it has been said that a yo-yo or two isn't a bad thing, as you end up going back up stronger, but with the TV money being worth £60m next season rather than £40m.... I think that it's only going to get harder and harder for promoted teams to compete.

It would be a disaster for you to sack McDermott and then get relegated I think. It would be less of a disaster if you went down with McDermott with a healthy balance sheet with the willingness to keep players, add to your squad, and attempt to get straight back up.

West Brom absolutely mastered this and it paid off for them in the end, but 'coming back up' is easier said than done.... The Championship is a ridiculously competitive league, and when we went down last time in 2005 we found that going down with the intention to yo-yo didn't work out....

I want to stop talking about an impending relegation though, because there is a lot of football left to be played, you aren't getting thrashed, and it only takes a lucky win and a few decisions going your way to turn a season around. You have been the 3rd worst team in the league up to this point, and you only need to be the 4th worst to stay up.

The PL is not the be all and end all to be honest. Many of us don't actually mind the championship. The PL leaves a bad taste in the mouth & I'm happy to yo-yo for a bit. Besides it's costing an absolute fortune to go to PL games!

[Caskeys Lovechild]

I don't think we saw a positive game, but I suspect we saw it more positively than Norwich. We were definitely the better team, and should probably have nicked a goal somewhere along the line - Kebe's little run, a couple of crosses which should have been punished - but overall I thought a draw was probably fair.

I think if I was a Norwich fan, I'd be worried. Nothing to offer anywhere on the pitch really - Grant Holt looked fat and lazy today, and nobody tested our Goalkeeper at any point.

As for the transfer and investment situation - you're demonstrating some of the basic lack of understanding that alot of our fans do about transfer dealing. Let me make this simple for you.

Football clubs do not "Buy" football players - they buy them OUT of existing contracts. If those contracts have lapsed, then there is no fee to pay. If the player has refused to sign a contract, there is no fee to pay. If the player is IN contract, then a compensation is paid, for the player breaking that contract.

Transfer fees are NOT reflective of the amount of investment in a team - transfer fees are simply a gauge of how many players have been offered contracts, who were already committed to other clubs. Your assumption that we've "not spent any money" is completely wrong - whilst we've not spent money on buying players out of contracts, our wage bill is the highest it has ever been - and I'd much rather be paying wages, than fees - especially when you see figures like £7m being banded around for the like of Holt (who I wouldn't have anywhere near our team). Buying players out of contracts is a stupid idea - especially if you can avoid it by home-growing, or understanding the characters available on the free/minimal fee market. I'm pretty sure this team will come good - and if it doesn't, the Championship does have the distinct advantage of not attracting the oxf*rd morons who don't have a clue how football works - which would be a welcome relief to the morons who think we should be challenging the top half of the table.

I still think we'll finish above Norwich at the end of the season though.

[Archie's penalty]

Hi guys,

I come in peace (never had any reason to either dislike or like reading, unless you can think of one, plus I can't stand QPR and if you can contribute towards their relegation in any way this season then that will be reason to like you).

I stumbled across this board out of interest to see whether Reading fans saw a dire performance like Norwich fans, or whether it was seen as a positive result and performance. If it makes you feel any better that's the second ridiculously awful game of football that I've had to watch in a week.... we had Stoke at home last Saturday.

It's unusual that I choose to sign up to a board to chip in, but in this case I felt that I had something to add to the debate which might make you feel a bit better. Getting men behind the ball and allowing the opposition team to have a fair bit of possession in the right parts of the pitch is Hughton's gameplan and invariably it results in the awful football that you watched today. After shipping in 9 goals in two games, plus the 5 that we shipped at home to Fulham at the start of the season, he has just gone right back to basics and adopted a Stoke like system at times. I don't think that your wasteful possession today was anything to do with a poor performance from your players but rather not having a clue how to play against our system.

You just played a team that is unbeaten in four games, we've won three of those games against Spurs, Arsenal, and Stoke, and we have seen a lot of the ugly football that you witnessed today. Ultimately though, you got a point from a team that had just won three of their last four games, only conceding two goals in the process.

We aren't scoring goals for fun like we did last year, and when we attack attack attack we end up on the wrong side of a hiding. Last season we'd have attacked all game, both teams would have been able to get the ball down and play, and we probably would have seen one of the two teams leave the ground having won 3-2.

I don't think that you should be so down on your performance to be honest, we are extremely difficult to break down at the minute. We are at real danger of developing a reputation as one of those teams who play bad football but pick up lots of points at this rate, and if that happens in due course I'll start to get embarrassed, but for now we are doing what we are having to do to get away from the drop zone. I don't want to talk about Norwich too much, because I'll bore you, but we personally hope that Hughton can add a striker or two in the summer and that this will see us playing passing some nice positive passing football again.

Now I want to talk about Reading. I've seen a lot of criticism of McDermott, but blimey, isn't he doing the best that he could be expected to do considering the fact that he was given nothing to spend? Reading have spent nothing, nada, zilch. You are now playing in the best league in the world, I believe I'm correct in saying that he's been restricted to free agents and a couple of signings from the championship. There are probably five or six Championship teams operating on bigger budgets this season.

We were deemed to have underinvested last summer and were faves to finish 20th despite spending a lot more than Reading. That said, we were favorites for relegation again this season, not quite sure how that works.

A lot of pundits were predicting good things for Reading this year, but most fans were not when it became apparent that you weren't prepared to spend any money. The optimism of the pundits obviously came about having seen Swansea and Norwich thrive last season while still playing the brand of football that they developed in the Championship, and figured that because Reading played good football too you would be fine.

The reality is that Norwich and Swansea spent a good £10m to £12m in their first summer, I'm not sure about Swansea but we spent a further £6m in January on Johnny Howson and Ryan Bennett, and this summer we've probably gone and spent another £10m, I'd like to think that there is another £6m for Hughton to buy the striker that we desperately need in January.

Those numbers are chicken feed in this league. If Reading go down this season it won't be because McDermott has mispent money and got things wrong, it will be because he hasn't been backed in the transfer market. We made exactly the same mistake in 2004/2005 when we spent peanuts in the summer, and then went and bought Dean Ashton in January (five months too late).

I'm not here to preach, but I doubt that there are any managers who could be doing any better this season considering the circumstances. It reminds me of Warnock who went through the same thing last summer. Given nothing to spend, and then Hughes gets £25m in January and takes the credit for finishing 17th.

I'd understand you wanting rid of him if you'd spent money in Southamption proportions. Why haven't you backed your man with money? (genuine question), could it be that it was considered too much of a risk? Are your club intending to yo-yo? And if you do go down with the intention to yo-yo, who else would you want in charge? You already have a man who has shown that he can get out of the championship.

Anyway, good luck with the season. Just my two pennies, just a bit surprised that Reading fans have so much expectation despite having largely a Championship quality squad (and no, that isn't a dig, that's a reality).

Great post mate.

[CanaryCanary]

Swansea spent around £6.75m last summer and £1.75m of that was on Leroy LOLita (secondary pun not intended). Norwich's fees were mostly undisclosed, Morison and Pilkington were good buys but you also wasted a lot of money on James Vaughan. We spent about the same on Gunter and Mariappa, and also offered big wages to Guthrie and particularly Pogrebnyak. Quite frankly, none of Norwich or Swansea's signings had the pedigree that those two free agents had (I think most were comparable to Gunter and Mariappa, amongst the best Championship players in their position), and I don't think we'd be better off if we'd decided to throw a million or two at a player like Lita or Vaughan.

We had a bid accepted for Gylfi Sigurdsson, but Spurs offered him more money and are a much bigger club than us so y'know.

Part of the problem is that McDermott is seemingly refusing to play two of our best players, and we're suffering as a result. I said at the start of the season that in my eyes he has the job as long as he wanted it, but he's made some pretty big mistakes this season that have cost us points, like not changing tactics to defend a lead, which is making it harder to defend him.

We are a public limited company and the figures that I have stated for transfer fees in the accounts that came through my door are consistent with those that I stated in my post. Your signings of Gunter and Mariappa were also undisclosed I believe, so not sure how you can conclude that you spent as much as us. We also signed Kyle Naughton on loan, and he was incredible, apparently we were priced out of him this summer (£8m asked according to our chairman). Steve Morison had a decent start but is not very popular now, if you want him then feel free to buy him, he looks every inch the Championship striker and that's exactly why we need to buy one this January. I've never seen him break a sweat.

Bradley Johnson and Elliott Bennett were also decent signings, both still important parts of our squad. We came up with no wingers and so we signed two wingers, Pilkington and Bennett were the two most important signings of the season, interesting that you would mention Pilkington but not Bennett. The former scored 8 goals last season and that's probably why he goes noticed by fans of other clubs, but Bennett is a very tidy little player. Bradley Johnson was called up into the provisional England squad this time last season just a few months after joining, and he's become a good player at this level. Blatently not good enough for an England cap, but with all due respect.... I wouldn't swap Bradley Johnson for Danny Guthrie based on the fact that the latter was highly rated as a kid.

Anyway, I don't want to get into too much of a debate about whether our team last year was better than yours on paper or not, it's not really all that relevant to this season. We had a manager who has the gift of signing young and hungry players and getting the best out of them, it was refreshing for us as signing journeymen and well known players was what got us into league one. We over-achieved last year whichever way you look at it, and the bottom end of the league is stronger this year. QPR stayed up with 27 points, suspect that won't be enough this season, although who knows!

Also, about James Vaughan. He was a huge risk, his injury record was obvious, but he is an absolute bulldog and Norwich fans love him. He's twice the player that Morison is. He just isn't going to stay fit enough long enough to make an impression in the Premier League, suspect he'll be on his way out.

But he gives 100% every time he pulls on a shirt, always looks dangerous, and in the two friendlies that we've played against Celtic recently he's torn them to shreds. What James Vaughan represents now is a player who could have been a true great, Norwich fans have got all the time in the world for the bloke, I feel really sorry for him. He's desperate to fulfill his potential and if he could only have an injury free few years he would. It was a bit of a stupid gamble by Lambert though, considering it was our first season in the league and money was limited.

I think we paid a couple of million for him and that was a massive massive gamble, but if James Vaughan didn't have the problems that he does have then he'd have become a £15m to £20m player, I've got no doubts about that at all..... it's precisely why Everton persevered with him for so long. It's just such a shame for football to be honest, just like Dean Ashton who we had for a bit.... Ashton would be England's #9 now i'm convinced of that too.

When I see Andy Carroll going for £35m despite being a one-trick pony, and scoring 6 goals in a season before being taken to the Euro's, it always makes me think about Ashton and now Vaughan who Norwich fans know full well were both class acts.

[Soul Man]

Interesting!! I still think we're down mate.

[CanaryCanary]

Interesting!! I still think we're down mate.

It's not looking good for you, I'll give you that, but you never know. If you can stay close enough to 17th until January it could only take an inspired signing or two.

Norwich fans thought that we were as good as down by December 2004, we signed Dean Ashton in January and we weren't relegated until the last game of the season.

The longer that Fernandes sticks with Hughes the better though for all concerned. Southampton have played all their cards, surely? I can't see Aston Vile going down with Lambert if I'm honest, and neither Sunderland with O'Neill, but there is every chance that Wigan and West Ham could get sucked into the mix, and dare say it even us.

I can't see us going down really, but we seem to be taking the League Cup seriously and that could prove a distraction (especially as it's the first home game against Villa since Lamberts departure).

[CanaryCanary]

I don't think we saw a positive game, but I suspect we saw it more positively than Norwich. We were definitely the better team, and should probably have nicked a goal somewhere along the line - Kebe's little run, a couple of crosses which should have been punished - but overall I thought a draw was probably fair.

I don't think either team looked like scoring, and for that reason I have to agree that 0-0 was a fair result.

I think if I was a Norwich fan, I'd be worried. Nothing to offer anywhere on the pitch really - Grant Holt looked fat and lazy today, and nobody tested our Goalkeeper at any point.

Honestly not the slightest bit worried, we played 4-5-1 with two defensive midfielders, parked the bus, and were clearly just looking for a clean sheet against a team who have scored 15 goals at home this season in all competitions. That's the first clean sheet that any team has kept at Reading this year. I'm a bit bemused myself as to why would play defensive football in a game where we would have a decent chance of a win, but I suspect it has something to do with not wanting to lose before playing Man Utd at home next week, a game in which we will no doubt play the same system with the same two defensive midfielders and attempt to shut them out like we did Arsenal.

As for the transfer and investment situation - you're demonstrating some of the basic lack of understanding that alot of our fans do about transfer dealing. Let me make this simple for you. Football clubs do not "Buy" football players - they buy them OUT of existing contracts. If those contracts have lapsed, then there is no fee to pay. If the player has refused to sign a contract, there is no fee to pay. If the player is IN contract, then a compensation is paid, for the player breaking that contract.

No, I think that you are assuming that I have a lack of understanding about transfer dealing. If I could be bothered I'd attempt to illustrate why a manager with a limited budget would seek to employ the services of free agents rather than buy other players out of their contracts using capital letters to be as condescending (or perhaps patronizing) as possible. You should probably note however that I haven't criticized the quality of any of those free agents, I'm merely noting that Reading haven't added a great deal to their squad (outside of the Defence). I'll happily rephrase my statement though "Reading have not added enough to their squad", how does that sound?

Transfer fees are NOT reflective of the amount of investment in a team

Sure.

Your assumption that we've "not spent any money" is completely wrong

I suppose that it is an assumption, based purely on the fact that I haven't got access to accounts, neither do you.

whilst we've not spent money on buying players out of contracts, our wage bill is the highest it has ever been - and I'd much rather be paying wages, than fees

That's purely subjective, Norwich had the lowest wage bill in the league last season and finished 14th. QPR probably have one of the top five or six biggest wage bills in the league at sit at 20th. Your wage bill could be the highest it has ever been because your wage bill has previously been relatively low, it could be highest that it has ever been because you are grossly overpaying your current players, or the most likely scenario..... it could be the highest it has ever been because of the huge rate at which wages in football inflate year on year. There is every chance that every team in the league is operating with the highest way bill that it has ever had, I can only really think of West Ham who are likely spending less on wages this time around. Then there is relatively and 'real terms' expenditure. Your revenues could be the highest that they have ever been, and likely are. You could be spending a higher monetary sum on wages but a smaller proportion of your revenue. Your wage bill could be higher when expressed as a number but not the highest that it has been in "real terms", £1 now is worth a lot less than £1 was worth in 2005, or 2000, or 1995, or 1990, or 1930. See.... statistics are funny things, they can be spun in many different ways and we can derive either positive or negative possible eventualities from any fact or figure. You seem to be presenting a high wage bill as a positive, on the basis that you don't want the club to make large capital investments in the playing squad, but on the flipside you could be playing Championship football with your new large wage bill.

especially when you see figures like £7m being banded around for the like of Holt (who I wouldn't have anywhere near our team).

You wouldn't have Grant Holt anywhere near your team on the basis that you don't like him as a person, not on the basis that he isn't good enough to play for your team. We received and rejected a bid of £6m for Grant Holt from West Ham. Seeing as you have given me a lecture on the way that transfer fees work, perhaps we can discuss the principles of "perceived value". Grant Holt may not be deemed good value at £6m to a Reading fan, or a Fulham fan, or a Wigan fan. But seeing as his goals last season were worth £40m to us, his perceived value to Norwich is higher than £6m. West Ham may have perceived his value at more than a Reading fan would have, but that's because they play in a system which relies on playing players who attempt to play precisely the way that Grant Holt does.

Buying players out of contracts is a stupid idea - especially if you can avoid it by home-growing, or understanding the characters available on the free/minimal fee market. I'm pretty sure this team will come good - and if it doesn't, the Championship does have the distinct advantage of not attracting the oxf*rd morons who don't have a clue how football works - which would be a welcome relief to the morons who think we should be challenging the top half of the table.

You have already said yourself that transfer fees are not a good indicator of the level of investment in the playing squad, and with this statement who appear to have completely contradicted yourself by suggesting that investing in free agents is a shrewder strategy. By doing so you are attempting to have things both ways. The success of any transfer can be judged solely on an individual basis. I'd much sooner have paid £3m for Alexander Tettey than have signed Joey Barton on a free transfer for £80k a week, and the value of Tettey's contract will be much lower including the transfer fee. We did pretty well out of signing Dean Ashton for £3m and selling him one year later for £7.5m. How do you judge the success of a transfer though? Success on the pitch? Financial return? Popularity with fans? It's far too subjective to make sweeping statements like "Buying players out of contracts is a stupid idea". In fact, that's probably a contender for stupid comment of the year right? Buying overpriced English players is a stupid idea, but I bet Newcastle fans aren't bemoaning the £6m that they spent on Demba Ba.

I still think we'll finish above Norwich at the end of the season though.

Bold statement, but I really don't care. All I care about is Norwich knocking Villa out of the Quarter Final and finishing in 17th or above.

Anyway, good luck with your season.

[CanaryCanary]

I've just been told that a couple of away games ago we beat the record for the longest run of Premier League away games without a clean sheet, and that Sky were making a big deal about it.

Yesterday at Reading we ended a run of 38 away games without a clean sheet, which is a Premier League record. Perhaps that was a record which Hughton thought could start to hang over our heads and play on our defenders minds.

That would explain why we played five in midfield and stuck 10 men behind the ball for ninety minutes, if it stops Sky and MOTD bringing it up every week, then I'll support the ridiculously ugly game that we created.

Here's to the game at Carrow Road hopefully being a prettier one.

[handbags_harris]

I quite enjoyed yesterday, but then again provided we aren't losing I find something enjoyable about most games. I don't think Norwich necessarily came for a point, but they definitely set themselves up as a more defensive team than observers have come accustomed to where Norwich are concerned. It was fairly clear from the outset that everything, absolutely everything good about Norwich attacking play went through Grant Holt and to a lesser degree Wes Hoolahan (more about him later). That said, it was also fairly clear that Reading had Norwich on the back foot for long periods but unfortunately our final ball, while we know it can happen, doesn't happen often enough for our current crop in the supply line to be considered Premier League quality. They can be exciting to watch but McAnuff blows hit and cold, McLeary's final ball is sadly lacking as does Kebe's. HRK has a knack of getting a goal and has a more than decent cross on him (I'd even stick my neck out and say he's the most consistent crosser of a ball we have on the wing) but simply doesn't look anything like a Premier League winger. Yesterday we created absolutely nothing clear cut all game despite a lot of huff, puff and bluster, but we will have these games in this division with these players. It doesn't mean they aren't trying, it doesn't mean the manager has it wrong, it means that at this moment in time they aren't showing Premier League quality often enough and that is why we are in the bottom three and until we address the consistency issue and also get another string to our bow (a Sidwell-quality signing in the middle of the park is essential in January). At this moment in time I am prepared to support this bunch of players whatever the outcome because I know under McDermott they will give the damndest to get a result. If they aren't good enough then so be it.

Anyway, more on Norwich - I can't say I really like any of the East Anglian clubs (nothing personal CC). Stems back from the quite horrendous results we had against them in the mid-90's and the awful luck or performances we got against them. I can think of a 3-0 at home in 96, Sheppard's last hurrah, as well as Keith Scott punching in an equaliser at Carrow Road, on top of that a 4-1, 5-2 and 4-0 against Ipswich. You can even throw in that 2-1 defeat in 2001 at Colchester and the penalty that nobody knows was given for, and then there's the refereeing assist in 2004. These reasons make wins against both just that little bit sweeter. Anyway, I thought they were pretty sound defensively, surprisingly so given their record and the fact they play Bassong as a regular starter. As I said earlier their attacks focus around Holt - that hasn't changed in years, I remember they crumbled when Holt was sent off on Norwich's last visit here, the 3-3 two years ago. Wes Hoolahan is the sort of player who I would find frustrating, fleet of foot but very slight and questionable quality where a final ball is concerned. I've never been a big fan of him personally. Further back the midfield looked workmanlike but the wings were shackled decently until the final 20, particularly the left side where firstly Kebe allowed Garrido far too much time to cross time and again, and the unconvincing Gunter finding himself woefully out of position on more than one occasion. Once Norwich started getting the crosses in I worried because the men in the middle looking to receive seemed to find space every time. Of course Norwich looked more dangerous in the final 20, but only as a result of a more gung-ho approach from us in a futile attempt to win the game, gaps occurring which better players would have punished (no disrespect - I mean the likes of our opponents in the next three home games).

All in all, I thought the two sides were evenly matched, and thought that prior to the game. I personally think that is more of a worry for Norwich, who were always going to find this second season up a different animal, than it is a positive for Reading. As it stands we are bottom three material...

[CanaryCanary]

Anyway, more on Norwich - I can't say I really like any of the East Anglian clubs (nothing personal CC). Stems back from the quite horrendous results we had against them in the mid-90's and the awful luck or performances we got against them. I can think of a 3-0 at home in 96, Sheppard's last hurrah, as well as Keith Scott punching in an equaliser at Carrow Road, on top of that a 4-1, 5-2 and 4-0 against Ipswich. You can even throw in that 2-1 defeat in 2001 at Colchester and the penalty that nobody knows was given for, and then there's the refereeing assist in 2004. These reasons make wins against both just that little bit sweeter.

Keith Scott was one of the worst strikers that I've seen at Carrow Road! I can think of one reason for you to like us though, Jamie Cureton came through our youth team system, in fact I know the family that housed and fed him when he was on his YTS.

Anyway, I thought they were pretty sound defensively, surprisingly so given their record and the fact they play Bassong as a regular starter

Bassong may have been shakey yesterday but we have conceded 6 goals in the 7 league games that he has played in, and 12 league goals in the 4 that he hasn't. If we had the player of the season vote right now he'd be in the top three. He was Newcastle's player of the season under Hughton in 2008/2009 and our defence falls apart when he's not in it!

As I said earlier their attacks focus around Holt - that hasn't changed in years, I remember they crumbled when Holt was sent off on Norwich's last visit here

We struggle without Holt, he's our talisman, and Norwich fans are desperate for us to add a decent striker in January. There have been moments where Morison has looked decent with Holt out of the team, and he scored 9 goals last season, but in terms of his importance to our team - we would have gone down without him, and we'd probably go down this season if he broke his leg tomorrow.

Wes Hoolahan is the sort of player who I would find frustrating, fleet of foot but very slight and questionable quality where a final ball is concerned. I've never been a big fan of him personally.

We get this debate a lot among our own fans, but we simply score more goals when he is the team, Holt scores more goals when he is in the team, and he sets up the most goals in our team. Yesterday was the wrong game for him because he is an offensive player and we played a defensive system, but Howson is out of form and Butterfield isn't fit and has gone out on loan for a month, and with Hughton insistent on playing a five man midfield.... we had to play him really. His lack of physicality does restrict him to playing behind the strikers in this league, but he tore the Championship to shreds. Think his biggest problem is inconsistency to be honest. He does frustrate us at times but the statistics don't lie, we simply win more games with him in the team, and you can't really argue with that.

Further back the midfield looked workmanlike

Actually that was precisely the problem with the entire game, we played two ball-winning work horses in centre midfield. That's what I meant by knowing as soon as the team sheet was announced that we would be spending a lot of time behind the ball. If we were to go out to attack a game we would either have played 4-4-2 with Jackson up front with Holt, or we would have played 4-5-1 but have swapped out Johnson or Tettey for a ball playing centre midfielder. The best passer of the ball at the club is David Fox, easily to most under rated player that we have, his passing range is immense but he's not good off the ball. We also had Russell Martin out with a slight injury, with Whittaker in, Martin is better at getting forward and putting a cross in the box. You would have seen a better game of football if we'd have gone for: Ruddy, Martin, Barnett, Bassong, Garrido, Pilkington, Bennett, Johnson/Tettey, Howson/Fox, Holt, Jackson..... and I really do hope that that's the type of team that we would be looking to put out against you at home. For me personally Snodgrass is too predictable too, and in terms of attacking intent, Elliott Bennett is the quickest player that we have at the club. Snodgrass made that XI because he gets stuck in. We have a lot more to offer than we did yesterday and it won't be long until Norwich fans tire of this brand of football, I do hope that as time goes on this season certain other players get a bit more of a chance, because us Norwich fans do like passing football and if we play physical football with long balls too much we will end up with a reputation like Stoke or Blackburn circa 2010, which none of us want, neither do we need to play that way with the players that we have at the club (albeit, we could really do with another striker, and I think that may be the missing link. We have three strikers of sufficient quality to get game time, and playing two of them week in week out is a good way to end up with even fewer strikers, I do hope that the arrival of a striker in January will see 4-4-2 return more frequently, and that this means the return of a ball playing center mid like Howson or Fox).

but the wings were shackled decently until the final 20, particularly the left side where firstly Kebe allowed Garrido far too much time to cross time and again, and the unconvincing Gunter finding himself woefully out of position on more than one occasion.

The game was crying out for Elliott Bennett, the quickest player in our squad, and he was given a whole five minutes. Just further serves to show how negative we were yesterday.

Once Norwich started getting the crosses in I worried because the men in the middle looking to receive seemed to find space every time. Of course Norwich looked more dangerous in the final 20, but only as a result of a more gung-ho approach from us in a futile attempt to win the game, gaps occurring which better players would have punished (no disrespect - I mean the likes of our opponents in the next three home games).

I didn't find it disrespectful, in fact you are only really serving to agree with my point that had Norwich had attempted to have attacked in the first 70 minutes, Reading would have had more chances at goal and more possession. That was the nature of the game, it was gritty and unpretty, I can see reasons for both teams to be positive though.... our first away clean sheet, your first clean sheet. Your got your first clean sheet a lot quicker than we did last season.

All in all, I thought the two sides were evenly matched

Agreed.

I personally think that is more of a worry for Norwich, who were always going to find this second season up a different animal

We seem to be getting the results. We've taken 8 points out of our last four games from a possible 12 points, after taking 3 points out of our first seven games from a possible 21 points. In between that we've beaten Spurs 2-1 at home in the cup, and we have three clean sheets in our last four league games.... got no reason to worry. Two very hard games coming up before our easiest four game run of the season. Not worried at all to be fair. Every Norwich fan thinks that we are a good striker short of a mid-table team, and I agree with that. The reliance on Grant Holt and the dismal form of Steve Morison is a big part of the reason why we are having to play so deep. The logic behind that being that if you can't score many goals then you need to concede less goals. I don't think that any team who manages to concede just one goal in four games in the league, with a cup quarter-final to look forward to as well, has any immediate reason to worry. It would only take a couple of injuries to key players for me to perhaps start to worry, but right now I'm happy with the sheer number of options that Hughton has at his disposal, particularly in midfield.... with a few decent players still awaiting their chance. We bought well this summer, we just lack a striker, and he's going to have to look to Europe because the prices being quoted for the likes of Austin and Rhodes before him are frankly ludicrious. We paid £3.5m for Dean Ashton in 2005 and he was three times the player than either one of those. I'm interested in the Danny Graham situation though, he's on the bench and Laudrup isn't a fan, he scored 12 league goals last season, and is good mates with Grant Holt..... seems perfect for us.

than it is a positive for Reading. As it stands we are bottom three material...

Wigan will get sucked in, even Sunderland could potentially, and I have a feeling that West Ham could be enjoying a honeymoon period which doesn't last beyond January.... a little like Blackpool did that year. Not all is well in the Swansea dressing room either, while Villa need to give Lambert another £10m in January. The season isn't over yet. The league is much tougher this year though, last year you have Wolves and Blackburn, that would have left you involved in the scrap for 17th place with three or four teams including Bolton and QPR, the latter survived on just 27 points. You are 18th and you only need 17th, far too early to be writing off your chances. I'd be happy with 17th as a Norwich fan but I'm quietly confident of finishing above Villa, Sunderland, and Swansea this season.