Back from the match / Pub / Lounge (Villa)

[Alexander Litvinenko]

except yo yoing doesnt depend on how much better the prem is than the champ
alot of it it depends on how much money you have in the champ(and how well you use it) and theres no doubt that relegated teams will have a monetary advantage over those who werent.
and the financial impact of relegation for us wont be that bad, since we havent spent much of the gains we made by coming up, the players will all be on contracts that would reflect a relegation in their wages, and theyre all of a standard/type that wouldnt necessarily be being hunted by prem teams

You're making a great big assumption there that the money from this PL campaign is spent on the team and wages.

That money will be more than the club cost to buy - which is a nice little earner if it's not reinvested.

[Extended-Phenotype]

except yo yoing doesnt depend on how much better the prem is than the champ
alot of it it depends on how much money you have in the champ(and how well you use it) and theres no doubt that relegated teams will have a monetary advantage over those who werent.
and the financial impact of relegation for us wont be that bad, since we havent spent much of the gains we made by coming up, the players will all be on contracts that would reflect a relegation in their wages, and theyre all of a standard/type that wouldnt necessarily be being hunted by prem teams

But your argument doesn’t make any sense. One it makes the odd assumption we can be one of those rare teams that does yo-yo. Quite a gamble. Two it assumes we go down with enough quality to take us back up again. As we know, people leave, whether we can financially secure them or not (usually not – Pearce’s contract is hardly being hurried through). Three, and most importantly, it assumes that we are building while we are yo-yoing. How are we building if, by your admission, we are buying/retaining only championship players? It’s not like each time we yo-yo we are going to improve the squad with that restriction.

The best shot we had was getting promoted and reinforcing what we had with quality, injecting more money than we did into the team and looking to reap the benefits of staying up. We blew that chance. Spending in January will be an admission things were not done right pre-season; in which case you have to ask why haven’t we learnt our lesson?

Not spending will see us relegated and for what? To see if we can scrape promotion again with the same aging players, with the odd addition of equal quality? Dunno about you, but last season was hardly a stroll in the park. If we go down, I don’t see us bouncing back up again any time soon.

This was a great chance and we didn't take it. Again.

[Lacoste]

I have said in other threads that Brian isn't the man to get us out of the Champ anyway next season. I would rather have a progressive manager with an eye for a player and who is able to integrate that player into the first team which is playing a progressive style of football suited to the prem. A manager who builds a side and doesnt just buy players and a manager who isn't afraid of dropping his bestest friends.

No point scraping promotion again next year just to play the same dross with the same inept manager that we have seen this season so far. IMO He should go for the sake of both our short term and long term goals.

[reading_fan]

And as a final point, to the "fans" who booed the team off at half time who were sat a few rows behind me last night, I hope you're happy the boys got the result you were obviously so keen to see.

What's wrong with fans booing an inept performance once AGAIN?

We were 0-0 at half time, and had had marginally the better of the first half. Yes it wasn't great fare on offer but we were still level. Had it been 5-0 to Villa at half time I could have understood it, but at 0-0 it's ridiculous.

[melonhead]

except yo yoing doesnt depend on how much better the prem is than the champ
alot of it it depends on how much money you have in the champ(and how well you use it) and theres no doubt that relegated teams will have a monetary advantage over those who werent.
and the financial impact of relegation for us wont be that bad, since we havent spent much of the gains we made by coming up, the players will all be on contracts that would reflect a relegation in their wages, and theyre all of a standard/type that wouldnt necessarily be being hunted by prem teams

You're making a great big assumption there that the money from this PL campaign is spent on the team and wages.

That money will be more than the club cost to buy - which is a nice little earner if it's not reinvested.

sorry, i forgot about your AZ skepticism.

yes, agreed, AZ could just keep all that money too, leaving us in the shit

[melonhead]

except yo yoing doesnt depend on how much better the prem is than the champ
alot of it it depends on how much money you have in the champ(and how well you use it) and theres no doubt that relegated teams will have a monetary advantage over those who werent.
and the financial impact of relegation for us wont be that bad, since we havent spent much of the gains we made by coming up, the players will all be on contracts that would reflect a relegation in their wages, and theyre all of a standard/type that wouldnt necessarily be being hunted by prem teams

But your argument doesn’t make any sense. One it makes the odd assumption we can be one of those rare teams that does yo-yo. Quite a gamble. Two it assumes we go down with enough quality to take us back up again. As we know, people leave, whether we can financially secure them or not (usually not – Pearce’s contract is hardly being hurried through). Three, and most importantly, it assumes that we are building while we are yo-yoing. How are we building if, by your admission, we are buying/retaining only championship players? It’s not like each time we yo-yo we are going to improve the squad with that restriction.

The best shot we had was getting promoted and reinforcing what we had with quality, injecting more money than we did into the team and looking to reap the benefits of staying up. We blew that chance. Spending in January will be an admission things were not done right pre-season; in which case you have to ask why haven’t we learnt our lesson?

Not spending will see us relegated and for what? To see if we can scrape promotion again with the same aging players, with the odd addition of equal quality? Dunno about you, but last season was hardly a stroll in the park. If we go down, I don’t see us bouncing back up again any time soon.

This was a great chance and we didn't take it. Again.

1 im not assuming anything, yo yoing was mentioned, not stated as a certainty
2. Brian+a little bit of cash = regular promotion chances. imo
3.apparently all our players are shit, why would anyone want them, and apprently none of our players can play in a way that will work in the prem, so why does it matter


go on about spening all you like- if AZ/other investors doesnt have enough money to spend/gamble then i dont knowwhat they/you/i am supposed to do about it?
i wish there was more money available too, im with you, believe me.

but i dont have any money they can have.do you? hopefully theyll find some more in january with the huge TV payout next year in mind, but if not, then like i said the only way to grow a club is to invest slowly and steadily in infrastructure, and team in the hope that we can perhaps yo yo, and through the increased money and coverage we get, grow to a point where we can sustain premiere league football

[Alexander Litvinenko]

except yo yoing doesnt depend on how much better the prem is than the champ
alot of it it depends on how much money you have in the champ(and how well you use it) and theres no doubt that relegated teams will have a monetary advantage over those who werent.
and the financial impact of relegation for us wont be that bad, since we havent spent much of the gains we made by coming up, the players will all be on contracts that would reflect a relegation in their wages, and theyre all of a standard/type that wouldnt necessarily be being hunted by prem teams

You're making a great big assumption there that the money from this PL campaign is spent on the team and wages.

That money will be more than the club cost to buy - which is a nice little earner if it's not reinvested.

sorry, i forgot about your AZ skepticism.

yes, agreed, AZ could just keep all that money too, leaving us in the shit

I'm not skeptical ( or even sceptical)

I'm just open-minded about the motives of football club "investors" until I've seen any evidence to the contrary.

I haven't yet.

[melonhead]

You're making a great big assumption there that the money from this PL campaign is spent on the team and wages.

That money will be more than the club cost to buy - which is a nice little earner if it's not reinvested.

sorry, i forgot about your AZ skepticism.

yes, agreed, AZ could just keep all that money too, leaving us in the shit

I'm not skeptical ( or even sceptical)

I'm just open-minded about the motives of football club "investors" until I've seen any evidence to the contrary.

I haven't yet.

wasnt a criticism. right to be sKeptical imo.

[West_Reading]

And as a final point, to the "fans" who booed the team off at half time who were sat a few rows behind me last night, I hope you're happy the boys got the result you were obviously so keen to see.

What's wrong with fans booing an inept performance once AGAIN?

We were 0-0 at half time, and had had marginally the better of the first half. Yes it wasn't great fare on offer but we were still level. Had it been 5-0 to Villa at half time I could have understood it, but at 0-0 it's ridiculous.

Well said. It was truly cringeworthy to hear that booing when we're 0-0 away to any side in the Prem. It was even more embarassing to hear the guy have a go at the old man, who expressed his displeasure at the booing. 'You don't boo your own team', 'Of course you do' came the reply. Great argument.

It was just as bad in the second half, with Jobi in particular getting slated at every opportunity. 'Cross it you useless c**t', 'Run at him you pr**k' were just some of the pearls of encouragement on offer.

[Lacoste]

Much better to sit there like the Madejski robots clapping politly with a lunchbox and a cardboard royals crown.

[melonhead]

cant disagree more with your attitude.

imo you can boo after the game all you like, you pays your money, you do what you like(i wouldnt, but...)
but booing during the game, at specific players, is a disgrace, and i personally blame the defeat fully on those who did it, denting the players fragile confidence further, and being the difference between a win/draw and the loss we finally got

BOOOOOOOOOO

[West_Reading]

Much better to sit there like the Madejski robots clapping politly with a lunchbox and a cardboard royals crown.

Yes cos that's the only two options available to fans, boo your own team or tuck into some prawn sandwiches.

[Jerry St Clair]

Bpoing is for morons. Not because I disagree with the sentiment.

Just stand in front of a mirror and go "Boooooooo". Yes, that's right, you look like a fool.

[RoyalBlue]

Has to be said that those people who booed did still make the effort to go to the game when they could have sat and watched it on the telly.

Personally I don't think the team deserved booing at half-time or during the game but I do think McDermott and his assistants deserved to feel some heat at the end.

Interesting to hear Redknapp at least say that the QPR travelling support deserved more from him and the players. Would be nice to hear McDermott come out with that occasionally instead of thinks like 'I thought we looked comfortable'.

[Get Carter]

What has the Pog done wrong -he is our leading scorer & McD refuses to bring him on at Villa when we are losing and Villa's defence looked shaky dealing with high balls.

[Man Friday]

We actually played better than we did against Everton. We could have easily been 4-0 down against Everton at half-time and had a couple of penalty scares. After the Everton match, however, you didn't hear many fans complaining. Last night, we were very unlucky to lose. Had Alf had his shooting boots (and head) on we'd have won. Try to get things into perspective. Performances will win matches in the long term and I saw a decent performanace last night. If we had a Van Persie, someone who puts 60% of chances away, not 20%, we'd be in mid-table position.

[West_Reading]

We actually played better than we did against Everton. We could have easily been 4-0 down against Everton at half-time and had a couple of penalty scares. After the Everton match, however, you didn't hear many fans complaining. Last night, we were very unlucky to lose. Had Alf had his shooting boots (and head) on we'd have won. Try to get things into perspective. Performances will win matches in the long term and I saw a decent performanace last night. If we had a Van Persie, someone who puts 60% of chances away, not 20%, we'd be in mid-table position.

I disagree with that. The problem is definitely creating chances. There is no cutting edge to our play, we rely almost entirely on a one-dimensional approach, which is percentage balls down the channels and then into the box. With the exception of a couple of games (Newcastle & Arsenal) we haven't cut a side open with a really incisive bit of play.

[RoyalBlue]

We actually played better than we did against Everton. We could have easily been 4-0 down against Everton at half-time and had a couple of penalty scares. After the Everton match, however, you didn't hear many fans complaining. Last night, we were very unlucky to lose. Had Alf had his shooting boots (and head) on we'd have won. Try to get things into perspective. Performances will win matches in the long term and I saw a decent performanace last night. If we had a Van Persie, someone who puts 60% of chances away, not 20%, we'd be in mid-table position.

I disagree with that. The problem is definitely creating chances. There is no cutting edge to our play, we rely almost entirely on a one-dimensional approach, which is percentage balls down the channels and then into the box. With the exception of a couple of games (Newcastle & Arsenal) we haven't cut a side open with a really incisive bit of play.

Agreed. We tore Arsenal apart and took a 4-0 lead because we mixed up our style of play. We played at pace with some sequences of quick short passes, moved the ball around well, good movement off the ball and, at the right time, the occasional direct ball. Simples! And football is a simple game but McDermott seems to have forgotten how to do it.

[barmy_army008]

I disagree with that. The problem is definitely creating chances. There is no cutting edge to our play, we rely almost entirely on a one-dimensional approach, which is percentage balls down the channels and then into the box. With the exception of a couple of games (Newcastle & Arsenal) we haven't cut a side open with a really incisive bit of play.

This is the main feeling I had after the game. Virtually everything we do goes down the wings, but when this doesn't work there is no Plan B. There is never that pass through the middle which slices open the defence. If we have it in the centre, it gets played out wide and then you rely on a decent, accurate cross getting into the box. I noticed yesterday that Roberts was drawn out to the wings fairly regularly, so when that cross came in, there was usually only Le Fondre in the box and it got cleared.

I wish that sometimes we would vary things a bit and actually try and play the strikers in so that they can get a few proper shots away, rather than those half chances from crosses coming in. This would also suit Pog as he would get some service.

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed. We tore Arsenal apart and took a 4-0 lead because we mixed up our style of play. We played at pace with some sequences of quick short passes, moved the ball around well, good movement off the ball and, at the right time, the occasional direct ball. Simples! And football is a simple game but McDermott seems to have forgotten how to do it.

It's lot easier when the pressure is off and the opposition aren't anywhere near on their game (the Arsenal game that is not the excellent 25 minutes vs Newcastle).

Isn't it basically what McDermott calls 2-0 football?

The better players deal with playing under greater pressure and still have the freedom and balls to play without fear. Our lot currently look like their crumbling under the pressure.