How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

[Hoop Blah]

Last season was the toughest Chasmpionship for at least a decade and far tougher than the one that let us amass 106 points. More horse sh*t from a very over worked keyboard.

Why was it the toughest for a decade?

There weren't any really outstanding sides in it that took a promotion place to two out of the equation from the off (like Newcastle, QPR, Sunderland or ourselves have in the past).

We went on a run of winning 14 out of 16 games in the second half of the season. If the league was so difficult and full of quality that couldn't have happened.

[Booseal]

Perhaps this rafter could do a better job on the pitch?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 25760.html

[royal67]

Come back, Shane, there are lot's of folks here who would love to eat some humble pie!

Five goals in the league so far this season...... hardly prolific. That and the fact that he really only had six productive months during his stay with the Royals doesn't make him the answer to our issues.....

[Wimb]

I know everyone is sick of the Guthrie thing.

But how can McDermott sit there and say we need guys that have played in the Prem, yet he refuses to play a guy that has played in the Prem.

Prediction: Guthrie will come back into the side, have a bad game, and everyone on here will be on his case again.

It's so tedious hearing people bleating about 4-5-1 and Danny Guthrie.

We played 4-5-1 at Chelsea. We lost. We played 4-5-1 at home to Spurs. We were dreadful. We played 4-5-1 at Liverpool. We lost.

IIRC Guthrie played in all these games as well. And one of our other losses - WBA was it? Why is he suddenly the messiah?

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

To be fair you're talking about games against two top four sides, a WBA team who were on a roll and then Liverpool who despite underachieving are still Liverpool.

What amazed me was how quickly he ditched him after West Brom. In fact how quickly he ditched any attempt to change the style.

[Booseal]

Perhaps this rafter could do a better job on the pitch?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 25760.html

The Independent have now pulled the article, but luckily Maffff has pasted a bit of it into a new thread. It's the turkey one. Cheers Maffff

[SPARTA]

[Hoop Blah]

What amazed me was how quickly he ditched him after West Brom. In fact how quickly he ditched any attempt to change the style.

You also have to wonder what they were doing in pre-season to bed in that new system and why it wasn't too successful.

[Maguire]

I know everyone is sick of the Guthrie thing.

But how can McDermott sit there and say we need guys that have played in the Prem, yet he refuses to play a guy that has played in the Prem.

Prediction: Guthrie will come back into the side, have a bad game, and everyone on here will be on his case again.

It's so tedious hearing people bleating about 4-5-1 and Danny Guthrie.

We played 4-5-1 at Chelsea. We lost. We played 4-5-1 at home to Spurs. We were dreadful. We played 4-5-1 at Liverpool. We lost.

IIRC Guthrie played in all these games as well. And one of our other losses - WBA was it? Why is he suddenly the messiah?

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

To be fair you're talking about games against two top four sides, a WBA team who were on a roll and then Liverpool who despite underachieving are still Liverpool.

What amazed me was how quickly he ditched him after West Brom. In fact how quickly he ditched any attempt to change the style.

You can explain away anything if you say things like "Liverpool are still Liverpool". What does that mean? A team that hasn't won the league in over two decades and who are very average this season? We were apalling first half up there.

And West Brom "on a roll" - they got dicked 3-0 by Fulham the previous game

[muddyfeet]

lolz

[Maguire]

I know everyone is sick of the Guthrie thing.

But how can McDermott sit there and say we need guys that have played in the Prem, yet he refuses to play a guy that has played in the Prem.

Prediction: Guthrie will come back into the side, have a bad game, and everyone on here will be on his case again.

It's so tedious hearing people bleating about 4-5-1 and Danny Guthrie.

We played 4-5-1 at Chelsea. We lost. We played 4-5-1 at home to Spurs. We were dreadful. We played 4-5-1 at Liverpool. We lost.

IIRC Guthrie played in all these games as well. And one of our other losses - WBA was it? Why is he suddenly the messiah?

My counter to that point is, McDermott was playing him in the attacking mid role where he's never played before. Guthrie's best position is playing deeper in front of the back four. He doesn't have the mobility or pace to play attacking mid. In a 4-4-2 L,wood and Guthrie did not have enough mobility to be playing along side one another.


My midfield would be

-------------Karacan--------Guthrie------------


Kebe------------------HRK---------------------McAnuff

Fair points

[Hoop Blah]

Mags, Liverpool are still a team with better resources than us, and better results, and we're playing at their place.

We played 4-5-1 and lost 1-0.

In the scheme of things I don't think the results or the performances were half as bad as they've got now and yet we're not really seeing much in the way of change (largely because we don't have the options in this threadbare squad).

[Wimb]

You can explain away anything if you say things like "Liverpool are still Liverpool". What does that mean? A team that hasn't won the league in over two decades and who are very average this season? We were apalling first half up there.

And West Brom "on a roll" - they got dicked 3-0 by Fulham the previous game

Mostly due to Odemwingie losing his head and getting sent off.

I understand your point and yeah Liverpool aren't a top 4 force now, but my point was that Guthrie hardly got given a run against the more average sides in this division. The only game he played that you'd expect a win was Stoke and we got a point in that one. Maybe a point against Spurs or West Brom but still.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

Question is - was Guthrie worse in those games than Leigertwood has been since?

Hint: No he wasn't.

[Maguire]

Question is - was Guthrie worse in those games than Leigertwood has been since?

Hint: No he wasn't.

Ridiculous comparison.

[muddyfeet]

Question is - was Guthrie worse in those games than Leigertwood has been since?

Hint: No he wasn't.

Ridiculous comparison.

lighten up m8 its Christmas!!!

[Woodcote Royal]

We have always won most of our games in the top flight playing 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 has had only had limited success against the very top sides........................in Arsenal's case, we've lost all our matches against them regardless of formation.

I wasn't talking specifically of the Arsenal game, although I do think it's an obvious error going into the game so open and so under manned in the middle of the pitch.

As for winning most of our games playing 4-4-2 in the Premier League. We've won ONE game with this squad of players at this level. It isn't working.


Having some flexibility to change and shore things up at times might've won us some of those 17 points we've lost from winning positions. Just half of those points would put us in a much stronger position yet we've stuck pretty rigidly to our 4-4-2 even when in the lead and looking to close out games.

Should we dig ourselves out of this mess, it will involve solving the more important issues of getting major players back fit and having a good transfer window.

Which major players? Roberts is out at the moment but hasn't been a major player at all. Karacan is a miss yes, but even he wasn't an autmatic in the side so not really a major player. We just don't have major players.

However, to win enough matches to avoid the drop, my guess is it would be achieved using the same 4-4-2 that beat Everton. Yes it's quite crude but our championship players understand it and we can't afford a striker good enough to do the lone job at this level. Come back, Shane, there are lot's of folks here who would love to eat some humble pie!

I don't see why, when we've 1 game playing a certain way you think it's going to be the most successful style moving forward. There are very few teams who still play 4-4-2 in this league so thinking we can defend comfortably against them with the way we play is just naive really.

So, we've won one game playing 4-4-2 and none with 4-5-1 and this, apparently, makes a nonsense of my view that we'll win more with the latter than the former

I do agree with the view that we've lost far too many leads and that switching to 4-5-1 could be one solution to keeping hold of them but it's been more use to us in the past for getting draws against the likes of Man U and Chelsea (never against the Arse) but I'm not convinced it will achieve the wins essential to avoiding drop.

We have one victory against one of the better sides in the division and that was achieved in the manner we know best, 4-4-2 and in this respect I see Karacan's recent absense as crucial because, as with Sidwell before him, we need his mile-munching to compensate for being short in this department because, we need the extra man up front to score the goals without which we will not win any matches.

Morrison is a major miss as is McCarthy and his replacement is a liability whilst Kebe is the only offensive player with both the pace and skill to unlock premiership defenses................................these absentees coinciding with 5? consecutive defeats is no fluke and highlights my view that they are indeed major absentees from our squad of limited resources.

[Maguire]

Question is - was Guthrie worse in those games than Leigertwood has been since?

Hint: No he wasn't.

Ridiculous comparison.

lighten up m8 its Christmas!!!

I havent' been drunk in like, 2.5 weeks FFS

[Ian Royal]

It's pretty fecking desperate that McDermott's supporters only arguments for him keeping his job is that he got us promoted last season from an easier league where we have consistently had one of the better squads for about a decade and some horseshit about no one being able to do any better just because they have a limited imagination.

Talk about stick your head up your arse and pray.

Last season was the toughest Chasmpionship for at least a decade and far tougher than the one that let us amass 106 points. More horse sh*t from a very over worked keyboard.

Still easier than the Premier League. Of course I wouldn't expect basic comprehension of a point from you in the first place, so I'm not surprised you've got your nickers in a twist.

[Hoop Blah]

So, we've won one game playing 4-4-2 and none with 4-5-1 and this, apparently, makes a nonsense of my view that we'll win more with the latter than the former

It's nonsense because we've played probably 14 out of the 17 games as 4-4-2 for most if not all of the games. The positive results are minimal. That single win against Everton should really have seen us about 4-0 down at half time so I'm not sure it's the best example of our system helping us to get a result.

....Karacan's recent absense as crucial because, as with Sidwell before him, we need his mile-munching to compensate for being short in this department...

I do think we've missed Karacan, largely because it means we've had no options, but in terms of his mile-munching, we bought Tabb in who I think is covering more miles.

Morrison is a major miss as is McCarthy and his replacement is a liability whilst Kebe is the only offensive player with both the pace and skill to unlock premiership defenses................................these absentees coinciding with 5? consecutive defeats is no fluke and highlights my view that they are indeed major absentees from our squad of limited resources.

Morrison played in 4 of those 6 consecutive defeats. McCarthy being unavailble is a blow yes, but all we'd done was lose and draw with him in the team. According to you our win, with Federici in the side, means that Federici is the more likely to lead us to wins as, like 4-4-2, he was there for the Everton game.

Kebe isn't the only one capable of doing anything. We scored a reasonable number of goals without him in the side all season.

They are better options than many of our other players, but these aren't major players for us.

[RoyalinBracknell]

I know everyone is sick of the Guthrie thing.

But how can McDermott sit there and say we need guys that have played in the Prem, yet he refuses to play a guy that has played in the Prem.

Prediction: Guthrie will come back into the side, have a bad game, and everyone on here will be on his case again.

It's so tedious hearing people bleating about 4-5-1 and Danny Guthrie.

We played 4-5-1 at Chelsea. We lost. We played 4-5-1 at home to Spurs. We were dreadful. We played 4-5-1 at Liverpool. We lost.

IIRC Guthrie played in all these games as well. And one of our other losses - WBA was it? Why is he suddenly the messiah?

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

To be fair you're talking about games against two top four sides, a WBA team who were on a roll and then Liverpool who despite underachieving are still Liverpool.

What amazed me was how quickly he ditched him after West Brom. In fact how quickly he ditched any attempt to change the style.

In a strange sense, perhaps the QPR cup game and Newcastle home game were 'bad' things to happen. We seemed to go back to basics for the cup match, went 4-4-2 with a high tempo style of play. Then we largely kept the same side for the weekend match (Gunter, Pearce, McCleary, Le Fondre and Guthrie all dropped if I remember rightly). The Newcastle match (at times) was probably our best performance of the season (certainly up there) and from then I think McDermott looked to go for the high-tempo 4-4-2 to take us forward. Unfortunately Karacan and Kebe got injured fairly soon after and the likes of Cummings and Hunt aren't really consistently good enough for this level.