The blame game

WHO IS TO BLAME???!???

McDermott & Hammond
54
42%
TSI
37
29%
Madejski
8
6%
The players
30
23%
 
Total votes: 129
Once were Biscuitmen
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Re: The blame game

by Once were Biscuitmen » 19 Dec 2012 16:34

melonhead
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Royal Dee
I think the clubs philosophy and out dated ideas on football might be to blame. And before you call me a glory hunter or plastic, Im not saying we should go and spend till we are bankrupt but we are not even sensibly investing and from my business background, i know NOT spending money can also drive your company out of business. we dont want to be playing in league 1 infront of 12,000 every week in 2 seasons time like so many premier league teams have done.


Yes but how many of those double relegations were due to spending too little money rather than say being crushed by mountains of debt?

Hint; it's none of them.


youre hugely wrong


Well name them then fruit bonce.

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melonhead
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Re: The blame game

by melonhead » 19 Dec 2012 16:38

pretty much all of them isnt it?



as well as the reason why all the relegated teams last year are having such stinkers too.

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Re: The blame game

by melonhead » 19 Dec 2012 16:39

and lol at fruit bonce

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Ian Royal
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Re: The blame game

by Ian Royal » 19 Dec 2012 17:42

melonhead
The Real Sandhurst Royal We overachieved last season to win the championship with the management team at Reading in the summer revelling in the seasons success with their blinkers on.

Two creative midfielders, two centre backs with at least 100 appearances each in the premiership or a top European League were must signings.

What did they do, sign Championship players who have done f*ck all with no experience of the top level.

The management team in the space of five months have gone from “hero’s” to “villains” as they have failed to act and bring in the quality needed to play at the top level.



tbf to them, thats pretty much what the promoted teams all did last year too, and everyone was creaming themselves over how brave and sensible that was

TBH it's also bollox.

Gunter was briefly at Spurs, Mariappa had a season playing in the Prem with Watford. Shorey's been there since he left us. Guthrie's got PL experience. Pogrebnyak's got PL experience - although not a lot, but he does also have top level European experience. So essentially the complaint is that McCleary & Gunter didn't have PL experience. Although McCleary had won his team's player of teh season award so I'm not sure you could say he'd done f*ck all.

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Re: The blame game

by Once were Biscuitmen » 19 Dec 2012 17:43

melonhead pretty much all of them isnt it?



as well as the reason why all the relegated teams last year are having such stinkers too.


So the exam question was, 'Are double relagations from the premiership generally caused by spending too little to too much?', to pick a few from the list:


Bradford - spent way beyond their means and are only just now back on an even keel

Southampton - Never budgeted or structured their player contarcts for the possibility of relegation. Again too much debt, some attributable to the stadium but still.

Leeds - Did they spend too little? The consensus here is 'no'.

Sheffield Wednesday - debt again

I could really go on but you feel free to chip in with clubs relagated from the top to third tier by spending too little?


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melonhead
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Re: The blame game

by melonhead » 19 Dec 2012 17:45

in a GCSE fail kinda way i failed to read the question properly
:oops:

carry on

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Re: The blame game

by bobbybottler » 19 Dec 2012 18:24

Woodcote Royal
Maguire I reckon the 25 day gap between games coupled with Federici's bizarre loss of form is what started the rot.

Never mind the goal against Stoke, if he'd kept out Gary Cahill's very saveable effort at Stamford Bridge then we may well have left with all three points and the season would've turned out differently.

We then had the huge gap which meant we had to go through the whole first "game of the season" thing again and turned in an abject performance against Tottenham. It's been downhill since there.

Clearly the biggest problem has been the failure of any of the summer signings bar Shorey to establish themselves as regular first team fixtures.

Then like a runaway snowball the problems have grown to the extent that the team look beaten before they even start matches these days.


Have to agree with a lot of that but, as ever, those who love to start polls prefer to provide just the options that suit their purpose or, are just too blinkered to see the alternatives, one of which I would see as bad luck.

In my view, we are only in the best league in the world because Brian McDermott has got so much right since he's been in charge. Many of those slagging him off would either, never have dreamed 12 months ago that we would be where are now and/or, are only interested in the club when it's in the top flight and don't care what risks are taken with it's financial future in order to avoid relegation.

Southampton have spent £30m so far this season but this is the club that was almost sunk by the cost of it's new stadium and have only arrived at this point following a spell in League One, along with administration and points deductions. As someone who will renew his season ticket regardless, if the Reading way means not doing things the Southampton way and they stay up and we don't, that's fine by me. For long term supporters, being a fan is about a lot more that one season in isolation and the last 20 years have seen us progress to a point where the club is unrecognizable from the form it took throughout the vast majority of it's history.

On this basis, our amazing run to promotion was always a win/win situation providing the huge financial windfall was not squandered but used to progress the club over the FIVE SEASONS that we will benefit financially from one season in the top flight.

Who was to blame for all of McCarthy, Morrison, Karacan, Guthrie, HRK, Kebe, Pog and Roberts (almost a third of our allowed 25 :| ) being unavailable for Sunderland? 4 of that list are not just certain starters but had been missing for the previous month or more. Clubs with far bigger budgets than ours would be struggling with an injury list like this.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing Guthrie's name. Jem Karacan (who is more likely to run through a brick wall for this club than refuse to travel to an away fixture :| ) is our best central midfielder, Kebe our best winger, Morrison the best centre back and McCarthy is light years ahead of Federici. No one gets everything right but, in my view, Brian's biggest error has been in placing too much faith in the limited ability of Adam Federici. If Taylor is not the better 'keeper why are we paying him what must be a very substantial wage?

I would contend that our best side is at least the equal of our main relegation rivals and wise investment of a further £5m next month would certainly have the potential to lift us out of the drop zone, but I wouldn't like to see us risking much more than this.

What I have in common with those who insist on posting so much nonsense on this board as to render it no longer worth the read for some of us, is that I'm hating this season just as much as they are. We both want to see RFC established in the top flight and I've seen nothing to the contrary from anyone at the club.

However, I don't believe chucking the kitchen sink at a "survival at all costs" approach is the best way to achieve that end and throwing McDermott out with the Premiership bath water could be the biggest disaster of all.

Had we been enjoying 4 years of parachute payments prior to this latest promotion, I doubt Brian would have been forced to sell the like's of Long and Sigurdsson and we would most likely have been promoted with a far stronger squad and the very real prospect of a soft landing in the top flight. Well, if one thing is certain going forward it is that we would be assured of this huge advantage in the next four Championship season's.

Furthermore, in McDermott, whose other major "crime" was to get us promoted on a shoestring, we have the man who has shown time and again his talent for scouting and developing much of the young talent directly or indirectly responsible for our 2 promotions to the promised land.

If we can't survive this season, no one more than Brian McDermott deserves the chance to build and keep a team fit to grace the Premiership in a manor that most of us would enjoy and, frankly, some of our blinkered fools should be very careful what they wish for.

Good post Woodcote, I'd broadly agree with that.

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Re: The blame game

by floyd__streete » 19 Dec 2012 19:28

Woodcote Royal I would contend that our best side is at least the equal of our main relegation rivals


Can't agree, personally. At Wigan, for instance, I looked at the back of the programme and their squad in terms of quality and depth seemed to me to be substantially better than ours. I posed a question on the most recent BFTG thread 'which members of our starting XI would get in an opposition side in this league'; Shorey perhaps for his setpieces, Pog?

Woodcote Royal and wise investment of a further £5m next month would certainly have the potential to lift us out of the drop zone


Where does an arbitary figure of £5 million come from?

Woodcote Royal Furthermore, in McDermott, whose other major "crime" was to get us promoted on a shoestring, we have the man who has shown time and again his talent for scouting and developing much of the young talent directly or indirectly responsible for our 2 promotions to the promised land.

If we can't survive this season, no one more than Brian McDermott deserves the chance to build and keep a team fit to grace the Premiership in a manor that most of us would enjoy and, frankly, some of our blinkered fools should be very careful what they wish for.


I agree 100% with all of this part.


I don't buy into the 'hard luck' stories. For me, the club worked so hard last season to get into this position and has wasted a lot of that work by failing to prepare an squad fit for purpose at this level. But as you say, the financial security - presumably - looks good, so we'll all have to suck on it for another 6 months anyway.

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Re: The blame game

by Alexander Litvinenko » 19 Dec 2012 19:36

floyd__streete
Woodcote Royal and wise investment of a further £5m next month would certainly have the potential to lift us out of the drop zone


Where does an arbitary figure of £5 million come from?


Never mind where it comes from, what does it buy you?

£5M is less than the wage commitment you make signing one average (i.e. paid less than £30k a week) Premier League player on a 3.5 year contract (the shortest any are likely to agree to). That's before you look at costs of employment or even talk about transfer fees.

As I seem to have said again and again and again, transfer fees are far less significant than salary bills - especially as with the latter they're a long-term commitment that a club has no guarantee of being able to get out of.


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Re: The blame game

by Royalclapper » 19 Dec 2012 19:49

Alexander Litvinenko
floyd__streete
Woodcote Royal and wise investment of a further £5m next month would certainly have the potential to lift us out of the drop zone


Where does an arbitary figure of £5 million come from?


Never mind where it comes from, what does it buy you?

£5M is less than the wage commitment you make signing one average (i.e. paid less than £30k a week) Premier League player on a 3.5 year contract (the shortest any are likely to agree to). That's before you look at costs of employment or even talk about transfer fees.

As I seem to have said again and again and again, transfer fees are far less significant than salary bills - especially as with the
latter they're a long-term commitment that a club has no guarantee of being able to get out of.


The best players still get transferred for the highest fees though, and the sides who spend most on transfers are usually the ones at the top.

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Re: The blame game

by Royalee » 19 Dec 2012 20:24

Entirely McDermott - he's wasting what resources he does have in Pog, Guthrie and Pearce who should be 3 of the first names on the team sheet every week. Also, the football we play is diabolical and that is down to him.

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Re: The blame game

by Royalclapper » 19 Dec 2012 21:12

You'd have to wonder with all the recent and reported dissatisfaction in the camp whether the players aren't getting paid what they were promised. Probably way off, but can't help wondering.

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Re: The blame game

by Avon Royal » 19 Dec 2012 21:14

Well they won't be dining out on any win bonuses.


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Re: The blame game

by Royal Dee » 20 Dec 2012 00:44

Once were Biscuitmen
melonhead pretty much all of them isnt it?



as well as the reason why all the relegated teams last year are having such stinkers too.


So the exam question was, 'Are double relagations from the premiership generally caused by spending too little to too much?', to pick a few from the list:


Bradford - spent way beyond their means and are only just now back on an even keel

Southampton - Never budgeted or structured their player contarcts for the possibility of relegation. Again too much debt, some attributable to the stadium but still.

Leeds - Did they spend too little? The consensus here is 'no'.

Sheffield Wednesday - debt again

I could really go on but you feel free to chip in with clubs relagated from the top to third tier by spending too little?


Swindon, Sheff Utd, Wimbledon, Bury and Barnsley all come to mind and nearly us 3 seasons ago.
and to add to that, there are too many teams that have been relagated from the the top division for not investing.

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Re: The blame game

by Terminal Boardom » 20 Dec 2012 05:33

Who says TSI have not invested?

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melonhead
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Re: The blame game

by melonhead » 20 Dec 2012 10:27

Royalclapper The best players still get transferred for the highest fees though, and the sides who spend most on transfers are usually the ones at the top.



michu- 2 million
shorey our best player was free

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Re: The blame game

by Alexander Litvinenko » 21 Dec 2012 12:04

Royalclapper
Alexander Litvinenko
floyd__streete Where does an arbitary figure of £5 million come from?


Never mind where it comes from, what does it buy you?

£5M is less than the wage commitment you make signing one average (i.e. paid less than £30k a week) Premier League player on a 3.5 year contract (the shortest any are likely to agree to). That's before you look at costs of employment or even talk about transfer fees.

As I seem to have said again and again and again, transfer fees are far less significant than salary bills - especially as with the
latter they're a long-term commitment that a club has no guarantee of being able to get out of.


The best players still get transferred for the highest fees though, and the sides who spend most on transfers are usually the ones at the top.


No argument with that - but also no relevance to the point being made, which was that spending £5m gets you virtually nothing in terms of players, and that just talking about spending money on transfer fees doesn't address anything near the actual cost.

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Re: The blame game

by working class hero » 21 Dec 2012 17:31

BM cannot be blamed for not having adequate cash available to totally rebuild.
The team are trying so cannot be blamed for not actually being good enough.
AZ cannot be blamed for not having enough cash to fund the above.

So it must be AZ's dad for not increasing his pocket money enough....

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Re: The blame game

by CayeneMatt » 21 Dec 2012 21:04

nailseabiscuitman Never see a mention of Nigel Gibb on any of these threads. Does he have any input or just say " Yes Brian-442 is the new way! " Seem to remember fortunes changing when Pards got rid of Martin Allen. Perhaps a new , premiership experienced coach would have an effect, not necessarily Wally Downes


An interesting point and well made.

Its also been mentioned in the L West quite a few times that NG's gestures during games advocates the long ball hoof.

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Re: The blame game

by Royal With Cheese » 23 Dec 2012 00:39

I blame Thatcher.

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