BFTG Wigan

[Vision]

Yay back to the "different wavelength" crap.

Yeah I'd kind of agree tbh. I've said it before his previous clubs weren't Barcelona, Arsenal or Swansea. He played for Bolton and Pardew's Newcastle. There's no real reason why he can't fit in with McD's style here. Alarm bells were ringing before the season had started with his "looking to make England's midfield" statement. Shades of Rosenior with that one.

He's not a bad player of course but as much as people might have a point about Mcdermott not always giving him a fair chance, he's not given himself a fair chance with his performances when he has played and his attitude when he hasn't. Akpan's had more influence in a month than Guthrie has all season.

[Hoop Blah]

I quite like Guthrie and the way he plays the game but I don't see him as a saviour who could turn our season. I do see him as a player who can and does use the ball more intelligently than our other midfielders. He looks to keep possession and move the ball around, not just whack it into the channels like the rest of them. Yes he came from pretty functional teams before, but even they've used the ball more than us with him in the side from what I saw of them.

His influence on the team could be quite dramatic if we wanted to play that way. We haven't tried to do that enough or play him in his most natural position enough to make that happen so he's not going to have had the biggest of impacts.

I think it's a overstating things a bit to say that Akpan has had a bigger impact though. He's looked alright yes. He's also looked very shaky at times too but the expectations of what he was going to bring were much lower and so when he gets an assist with a scuffed shot and another with a simple header in the box people seem to have got quite carried away. His ball for Le Fondre to score against Chelsea was a great pass though, can't argue with that.

I think the reason Guthrie is proclaimed so much on here at times is the obvious difference in approach he has. Our biggest failing this year is probably not being able to keep the ball enough and that's where Guthrie could probably have made the biggest difference.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Yay back to the "different wavelength" crap.

Completely misreading what I was saying - which was (ironically!) agreeing with you.

Just making the point that our forwards and wingers can make as many perfectly-timed and penetrating runs as they like - our backs and midfield just aren't set-up to look for them and to expect them, and I'm not sure if they can because it's not something they've been called on to do here.

Guthrie might possibly be able to, because he has played that style before coming here, and part of the initial conflict in Aug/Sept was that he was looking for those runs and they just weren't happening.

But this certainly wasn't a pro-Guthrie polemic, more of an indictment of the whole style of play.

But if you want to get hung up on the use of a single word and go off on a tangent, feel free

[Vision]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

[melonhead]

I quite like Guthrie and the way he plays the game but I don't see him as a saviour who could turn our season. I do see him as a player who can and does use the ball more intelligently than our other midfielders. He looks to keep possession and move the ball around, not just whack it into the channels like the rest of them. Yes he came from pretty functional teams before, but even they've used the ball more than us with him in the side from what I saw of them.

His influence on the team could be quite dramatic if we wanted to play that way. We haven't tried to do that enough or play him in his most natural position enough to make that happen so he's not going to have had the biggest of impacts.

I think it's a overstating things a bit to say that Akpan has had a bigger impact though. He's looked alright yes. He's also looked very shaky at times too but the expectations of what he was going to bring were much lower and so when he gets an assist with a scuffed shot and another with a simple header in the box people seem to have got quite carried away. His ball for Le Fondre to score against Chelsea was a great pass though, can't argue with that.

I think the reason Guthrie is proclaimed so much on here at times is the obvious difference in approach he has. Our biggest failing this year is probably not being able to keep the ball enough and that's where Guthrie could probably have made the biggest difference.

agree with all that tbf.
hes good. i like him. he can play football.i want him to do so for RFC
but since the stoke game ive still yet to see him do anything in a game that made me think, yeah, thats why we bought him.
im sure hes moved the ball around, and his pass completion/ball retention is probably better than the rest(unchecked stats!)
but ive never come away from the game thinking, yes! that guthrie is quality. and cannot remember a single thing ive seen him do thats convinced me he is as good as he thinks he is.(didnt go to the chelsea game)

[Ian Royal]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

Good call, although I'd add he doesn't have the phenomenal fitness either.

[BR2]

Yay back to the "different wavelength" crap.

Yeah I'd kind of agree tbh. I've said it before his previous clubs weren't Barcelona, Arsenal or Swansea. He played for Bolton and Pardew's Newcastle. There's no real reason why he can't fit in with McD's style here. Alarm bells were ringing before the season had started with his "looking to make England's midfield" statement. Shades of Rosenior with that one.

He's not a bad player of course but as much as people might have a point about Mcdermott not always giving him a fair chance, he's not given himself a fair chance with his performances when he has played and his attitude when he hasn't. Akpan's had more influence in a month than Guthrie has all season.

There are some players who look better with better players around them and I think Guthrie is one of those.
Previous Liverpool players such as Jimmy Case and Sammy Lee IMHO fell into that category and I feel that the likes of Milner and Gibson and Fletcher are similar and would struggle to make an impact in most other teams.
Reading need more than the one play-maker and I think an overhaul of how everybody plays is needed.

[Hoop Blah]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

Kind of yes, and I was thinking that as I type my earlier post.

He's a possibly more of a Kevin Dillion without he reckless tackling and short temper!

[Hoop Blah]

but since the stoke game ive still yet to see him do anything in a game that made me think, yeah, thats why we bought him.

I've no idea why we bought him really. If all we wanted was a slight upgrade on the hard working midfielders we had we probably would've been better off getting Keith Andrews. Putting Guthrie in and asking him to do the same things as Leigertwood and Karacan is a bit daft and not what I've wanted us to do. If all we are going to do is play the way we have then I don't think leaving him out is that bad a thing (apart from a squad morale point of veiw), but buying him and trying to turn him into something else is a bit pointless.

I've said it a few times this season, Guthrie is a bit of a Premier League version of Brian Howard, albeit slightly better relatively speaking. He didn't work in our style so no idea why we thought Guthrie would.

im sure hes moved the ball around, and his pass completion/ball retention is probably better than the rest(unchecked stats!)
but ive never come away from the game thinking, yes! that guthrie is quality. and cannot remember a single thing ive seen him do thats convinced me he is as good as he thinks he is.(didnt go to the chelsea game)

His game isn't going to be that eye catching or dominate in the way you perhaps think he should. Similar to Harper in that respect I guess.

[urzmikep]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

or his "Crab" like movement

[Colin Cheeselog]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

Probably doesn't love the banter quite as much either. 'Harps' was only here for the banter, calling somebody a silly name, being called another name in return etc. Legendary stuff.

[SPARTA]

Basically he's James Harper without the work ethic. Or the arm waving.

Probably doesn't love the banter quite as much either. 'Harps' was only here for the banter, calling somebody a silly name, being called another name in return etc. Legendary stuff.

Nevertheless, Harper > Leigertwood > Karicant

[Muskrat]

cba to read the previous 15 pages obvs but Saturday's result has killed us imo.

After losing to one of the two teams that were below us in the league and the manner of the performance, it leads to one conclusion

Also we've lost the only real option we have for a lone striker in a 4-5-1, which has been established as the only viable formation for us in this league. Add to that the fact that all of our wingers are off form at the moment, which is where our one real threat comes from (I'm not even counting set pieces these days) and we're in a bad place.

Brian's demeanor is also reflective of the looming inevitiability of what is coming - he seems increasingly downbeat and quick to blame referees, even on Saturday when we were played off the park and the ref was not a real factor.

Not quite sure where we go from here - maybe try playing HRK as the one up front against Everton and keep Hunty and Alf on the bench?

[Huckleberry Hound]

Guthrie is a bit of a Premier League version of Brian Howard, albeit slightly better relatively speaking.

Q.E.D.?

[melonhead]

but since the stoke game ive still yet to see him do anything in a game that made me think, yeah, thats why we bought him.

I've no idea why we bought him really. If all we wanted was a slight upgrade on the hard working midfielders we had we probably would've been better off getting Keith Andrews. Putting Guthrie in and asking him to do the same things as Leigertwood and Karacan is a bit daft and not what I've wanted us to do. If all we are going to do is play the way we have then I don't think leaving him out is that bad a thing (apart from a squad morale point of veiw), but buying him and trying to turn him into something else is a bit pointless.

I've said it a few times this season, Guthrie is a bit of a Premier League version of Brian Howard, albeit slightly better relatively speaking. He didn't work in our style so no idea why we thought Guthrie would.

im sure hes moved the ball around, and his pass completion/ball retention is probably better than the rest(unchecked stats!)
but ive never come away from the game thinking, yes! that guthrie is quality. and cannot remember a single thing ive seen him do thats convinced me he is as good as he thinks he is.(didnt go to the chelsea game)

His game isn't going to be that eye catching or dominate in the way you perhaps think he should. Similar to Harper in that respect I guess.

i loved harps' game tbf, not sure guthrie better than him.
i dont even mean just the eye catching through balls etc, i dont remember ever thinking, yeah, hes really taking this game by the scruff, imposing himself on it, and letting his quality come through, even if its just by keeping the ball moving nicely.

[Gordons Cumming]

After this game it is clear that Brian must stop his habitual superstitious "walking out onto the pitch at 12.30pm" nonsense.

[OpinionatedRoyal]

Before I start, yes I'm newbie to Hobnob. However I regularly read the posts and have been a loyal season ticket holder for over 8 years. So call me a newbie if you wish.

My opinion, is that McD did get it all wrong with the Wigan game, and probably with 80% of the previous games this season. However, he did get us here in the first place and we should be give him our full support to get us out of this situation (aimed at the fans who gave him a hard time BEFORE we did the comeback against West Brom).

How funny it will be to read the posts IF he did keep us up. Guaranteed that it will have gone from "McD got this, that, and this wrong - he's got to go" to "McD was always the right man for the job. always had faith".

Pearce situation - Yes, he should have played based on statistics and all. But, we do not know what he been said and what goes on behind closed doors. McD said he was wrong for both Stoke goals (debatable), so fair enough. Morrison did well at Old Trafford, so he deserved a place in the starting XI.

One question I would love the ask McD right now: What on EARTH were you thinking when decided to play 4-5-1 at HOME, against a relegation rival who haven't WON all YEAR?!?!?! Pog was about as much use as a chocolate teapot - could be said for several others as well on Saturday.

Probably going to get victimised for those comments seeing as I'm an easy target (newbie) but hey ho!

[winchester_royal]

Before I start, yes I'm newbie to Hobnob. However I regularly read the posts and have been a loyal season ticket holder for over 8 years. So call me a newbie if you wish.

My opinion, is that McD did get it all wrong with the Wigan game, and probably with 80% of the previous games this season. However, he did get us here in the first place and we should be give him our full support to get us out of this situation (aimed at the fans who gave him a hard time BEFORE we did the comeback against West Brom).

How funny it will be to read the posts IF he did keep us up. Guaranteed that it will have gone from "McD got this, that, and this wrong - he's got to go" to "McD was always the right man for the job. always had faith".

Pearce situation - Yes, he should have played based on statistics and all. But, we do not know what he been said and what goes on behind closed doors. McD said he was wrong for both Stoke goals (debatable), so fair enough. Morrison did well at Old Trafford, so he deserved a place in the starting XI.

One question I would love the ask McD right now: What on EARTH were you thinking when decided to play 4-5-1 at HOME, against a relegation rival who haven't WON all YEAR?!?!?! Pog was about as much use as a chocolate teapot - could be said for several others as well on Saturday.

Probably going to get victimised for those comments seeing as I'm an easy target (newbie) but hey ho!

Given your username I was hoping for more than this fairly timid offering on debut. Disappointing.

[Royal91]

Before I start, yes I'm newbie to Hobnob. However I regularly read the posts and have been a loyal season ticket holder for over 8 years. So call me a newbie if you wish.

My opinion, is that McD did get it all wrong with the Wigan game, and probably with 80% of the previous games this season. However, he did get us here in the first place and we should be give him our full support to get us out of this situation (aimed at the fans who gave him a hard time BEFORE we did the comeback against West Brom).

How funny it will be to read the posts IF he did keep us up. Guaranteed that it will have gone from "McD got this, that, and this wrong - he's got to go" to "McD was always the right man for the job. always had faith".

Pearce situation - Yes, he should have played based on statistics and all. But, we do not know what he been said and what goes on behind closed doors. McD said he was wrong for both Stoke goals (debatable), so fair enough. Morrison did well at Old Trafford, so he deserved a place in the starting XI.

One question I would love the ask McD right now: What on EARTH were you thinking when decided to play 4-5-1 at HOME, against a relegation rival who haven't WON all YEAR?!?!?! Pog was about as much use as a chocolate teapot - could be said for several others as well on Saturday.

Probably going to get victimised for those comments seeing as I'm an easy target (newbie) but hey ho!

Given your username I was hoping for more than this fairly timid offering on debut. Disappointing.

I have to agreed I was hoping for more controversy.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

One question I would love the ask McD right now: What on EARTH were you thinking when decided to play 4-5-1 at HOME

Nobody was complaining when we played 4-5-1 at home against West Ham.

Fickle is the word that springs to mind with the majority here.