"It evens itself out over the season"

[old woman]

Can anyone think of a game this season when we've had a half decent referee- I can't.!!!!

[creative_username_1]

I'm guessing a decent referee is one that gives decisions your way???

[SCIAG]

Against us

Ba handball vs Newcastle
Torres offside vs Chelsea
Penalty not given vs Utd, Villa
Foul on Shorey vs Man City

Feel free to add for/against

Walker Handball No pen vs Spurs (H)
2 Penalties denied vs West Brom (A)
Tabb Pen vs Wigan (A)
2 Penalties vs Southampton (A)
Tabb Penalty & Handball pen vs Man City (A)
Lukaku offside goal vs West Brom (H)
Le fondre Pen vs Stoke (A)
"Offside" goal against Villa

Evens out my oxf*rd arse.

I barely remember half of those. If I remember correctly, the Lukaku goal wasn't offside and the Hunt goal was. The Tabb penalty against Man City probably wasn't a penalty but the handball was. Can only think of one penalty against Saints and none against West Brom (I stand to be corrected). You've missed Di Santo's incorrectly disallowed goal against Wigan, the penalty not given for a foul by Mariappa away against Aston Villa, Benteke's goal being allowed to stand despite climbing at Villa Park, Gorkss' obvious foul on Naismith against Everton that should have got him sent off, Van Persie's shot that crossed the line but wasn't given, and Morrison's push in the area at QPR.

1 point dropped away to Chelsea- Torres not given offside
2 points dropped home to Newcastle- Ba handball
1 point dropped away to Southampton- penalty not given for foul on Tabb
3 points dropped away to Man City- Barry goal given despite clear foul, penalty not given for handball
1 point dropped away to Stoke- penalty not given for foul by Shotton on Le Fondre
1 point dropped at home to Aston Villa- penalty not given for push by Guzan
1 point dropped away to Man United- penalty not given for push on Mariappa by Vidic
Knocked out of the League Cup- Hunt penalty not given, full time whistle not blown
1 point gained away to QPR- QPR denied penalty after a push from Morrison
2 points gained at home to Everton- penalty not given despite blatant foul by Gorkss (Gorkss lucky to stay on the pitch as he was booked on another occasion)

Neutral- Wigan (Di Santo goal incorrectly disallowed, penalty not given for foul on Tabb), Aston Villa (Benteke goal stood, penalty not given for foul by Mariappa).
Didn't affect the result: Spurs home (Walker handball), Man United home (Van Persie goal crossed the line)

In short, we should have gained 7 points, but Southampton and Villa should also have dropped points against us. On our games alone, we should be in 16th place on 31 points. I'd need to go through their games to see if they are in true positions.

[SCIAG]

I have checked DebDec and they seem to think we've gained points this season from refereeing decisions. They disagreed on the Le Fondre penalty and thought we deserved on against Everton (away) for handball. They also thought both penalty shouts against Southampton should have been given, and we were lucky to have free kicks awarded which we scored from away to Spurs and Wigan. However, they also missed major decisions like the Ba handball (which didn't even get discussed).

We also have to remember a number of close calls which could have gone either way but went our way, like the pushing on/by Federici against Southampton and the ball hitting Morrison's hand when he made a sliding block at home to Everton.

1 point dropped away to Chelsea- Torres not given offside
2 points dropped home to Newcastle- Ba handball
3 point dropped away to Southampton- penalty not given for foul on Tabb, penalty not given for shirt pulling
3 points dropped away to Man City- Barry goal given despite clear foul, penalty not given for handball
1 point dropped at home to Aston Villa- penalty not given for push by Guzan
1 point dropped away to Man United- penalty not given for push on Mariappa by Vidic
Knocked out of the League Cup- Hunt penalty not given, full time whistle not blown
1 point gained away to QPR- QPR denied penalty after a push from Morrison
2 points gained at home to Everton- penalty not given despite blatant foul by Gorkss (Gorkss lucky to stay on the pitch as he was booked on another occasion)

Neutral- Aston Villa away (Benteke goal stood, penalty not given for foul by Mariappa).
Didn't affect the result: Spurs home (Walker handball), Wigan away Wigan (Di Santo goal incorrectly disallowed, penalty not given for foul on Tabb, soft free kick for Reading goal), Man United home (Van Persie goal crossed the line), Spurs away (soft free kick awarded for Reading goal)

I make that 8 points dropped. We'd be 11 points better off relative to Southampton... however, note that most of the decisions in our favour didn't affect the result. If those had come in crucial matches then things would be a lot more even. I think it's more likely to be chance than bias. In terms of decisions it is 7 for, 11 against, it's just those 4 decisions have cost us 2 points each.

[Vic_Flange]

A wrongly and over spent little media term,'it evens out over the season' falls right in the category of 'complete and utter unadulterated bullshit' and should never be talked, texted or typed about except when discussing it's misuse.- or in my case, my failure to preview a comment properly first !

[Man Friday]

Brilliant post, SCIAG. Thanks for this detailed analysis.

[Sanguine]

Brilliant post, SCIAG. Thanks for this detailed analysis.

Yeah, good effort SCIAG. But it's wrong in parts. Or at least, doesn't accept it is subjective.

[Millsy]

It's obvious there will be a bias against little clubs in the PL.

In my profession, which involves massive money, I'm always being invited to slap up meals etc etc.. Nothing blatant, nothing official, just being looked after. And being as moral as I possibly can be, how can I be sure I'm not somehow influenced?

Now footy, which is just as big finance wise is no different. You have a select group of clubs who are longstanding PL clubs who may look after officials etc etc in a similar way. Nothing official, just some 'hospitality'.

Let's say you're a PL official, in the game for years. You see the Cheatskis and the Manures year in year out, same events. You never see Reading and if you do they won't stick around for long as they're a little club. You officiate a game between Man Utd and little Reading. Theres a tough decision. Do you let it go the way of Ferguson, who is in the PL club and who you see at unofficial events all the time and whose club pays for your big parties? Or do you piss them off and go with little Reading and Brian McWho?

Now that doesn't have t be a conscious decision at all but I bet 99.9% of even the most moral will unconsciously go with the club they'll be rubbing shoulders with for the next few years instead of little Reading with their brief PL visit.

Its human nature to favour the big boys, even unconsciously. It's the same sort of reason why home teams do better, as studies have shown.

We haven't earns PL status yet, it's not our league. As long as that's the case it won't even itself out.

[AthleticoSpizz]

good post, it brought a tear to my eye, and a lump to my throat

Very true possibly

[TBM]

From today

Penalty?
Foul on Feds for their goal?
Ball was over the line?

[zingo]

no penalty
no foul on feds because he didnt make a challenge and bottled it, if he had made a challenge it would have been a foul yes
ball wasnt over the line

southampton just a far better side. for game changing moments i'd look at le fondre's miss rather than refereeing decisions

[JayRoyal]

no penalty
no foul on feds because he didnt make a challenge and bottled it, if he had made a challenge it would have been a foul yes
ball wasnt over the line

southampton just a far better side. for game changing moments i'd look at le fondre's miss rather than refereeing decisions

No, the ball WAS over the line.

[TBM]

Yup - replayed showed it was over but noway the lino could have seen it that quick

[creative_username_1]

Yup - replayed showed it was over but noway the lino could have seen it that quick

not seen a replay that i would be 100% with.

nae penalty

Feds bottled it

[Ian Royal]

Yup - replayed showed it was over but noway the lino could have seen it that quick

not seen a replay that i would be 100% with.

nae penalty

Feds bottled it

Not completely over the line by the narrowest of margins. Not a pen by the narrowest of margins. Not a foul on fed because he bottled it. Looked like a keeper just back from injury scared of a return to the treatment table.

[Royalclapper]

Ref should have blown for reckless play and given Rodriguez a yellow card. His foot was high, studs showing, any player would have risked serious injury going into that challenge which is what the referee should be watching out for.

[Camel Royal]

It's obvious there will be a bias against little clubs in the PL.
We haven't earns PL status yet, it's not our league. As long as that's the case it won't even itself out.

This
We're now a decent sized Champ club, got to start building the system, players and style to compete in the Prem (or the mid third of it).
At the end of the day if you're good enough you'll stay up (wigan are hardly a 'big' club but they've had a good extended stay) and we sure as heck ain't anywhere near at the moment. But with Adkins, the club's sound set-up and a player clean-up why not.

[zingo]

no penalty
no foul on feds because he didnt make a challenge and bottled it, if he had made a challenge it would have been a foul yes
ball wasnt over the line

southampton just a far better side. for game changing moments i'd look at le fondre's miss rather than refereeing decisions

No, the ball WAS over the line.

picture?

watched the replay about 3 times and agreed with the commentators that the ball wasn't over the line

[AirRaidSiren]

no penalty
no foul on feds because he didnt make a challenge and bottled it, if he had made a challenge it would have been a foul yes
ball wasnt over the line

southampton just a far better side. for game changing moments i'd look at le fondre's miss rather than refereeing decisions

No, the ball WAS over the line.

picture?

watched the replay about 3 times and agreed with the commentators that the ball wasn't over the line

'greed. F.A rules state that the entire ball must be over the line, and it wasn't. Clearly.

[Ian Royal]

Yeah, it wasn't more than about 90 - maybe 95 - percent over. I certainly couldn't see all of it, in any of the about 6 replays there were. No way you can give that as a linesman.