SJM - Minutes silence vs Liverpool

[No Fixed Abode]

So, there is no evidence.

Sadly not. Exactly the same amount of evidence available for the stuff you post on a regular basis about LFC fans 'playing up' and your imaginary friend the LFC season ticket holder you claim backs this up.

Sadly for you he isn't imaginary. Also a good friend of mine moved up to Liverpool about 6 months ago to work for the Echo. See you in the Krazy House soon eh?

[P!ssed Off]

Still, it will give the Liverpool Hillsborough roadshow something else to harp on about in their blame culture. I just wish they would concentrate on respecting the 96 lives that have been lost instead of turning it into a look at us circus all the time.

Agreed. Terrible tragedy, but a lot of people are now very, very bored of self pity city continuing to loudly blame every man and his dog rather than grieving for and respecting those that died, which appears to be a side show in the 'look at us, aren’t we hard done by' saga.

This. I'm happy to take part in a minute's silence for the 96 but if I am subsequently forced to listen to thousands of people partying about a dead person for 90 minutes then Liverpool can oxf*rd right off next year and the years after, I'll be done extending pity to those who are undeserving of it (i.e. the current Liverpool fans, not those who died). I'll wait outside or just turn up late for future Hillsborough silences.

[Anfield Kopite]

So, there is no evidence.

Sadly not. Exactly the same amount of evidence available for the stuff you post on a regular basis about LFC fans 'playing up' and your imaginary friend the LFC season ticket holder you claim backs this up.

Sadly for you he isn't imaginary. Also a good friend of mine moved up to Liverpool about 6 months ago to work for the Echo. See you in the Krazy House soon eh?

I am to old for the Krazy House but would meet up if you did come up to Liverpool. Maybe if we shared a few beers we could accept each others point of view a bit more.

[P!ssed Off]

I can't really understand why any football fan would want to honour Margaret Thatcher before a football match.

Let's face it, she and her government were hardly friends of football supporters! To them we were all the scourge of society, to be deprived of our rights and treated like shyte because football, rather than the society the politicians had helped create, was the source of all evil.

Wasn't around pre-90's but from what I hear it was pretty violent times; my Dad didn't go to games for about 20 years because it just simply wasn't worth the agggro. It seems to me that whilst football violence may have had its roots in wider social problems it was much more than this alone.

Football gave degenerates the opportunity to act like packs of animals for many years and did not really attempt to stop this mentality until forced to do so by Governments and authority.

Whilst not all football fans are the scourge of society it does appear to me from my experience that most of the scourge of society are football fans.
The only time I have witnessed a woman get attacked by multiple men was inside a football stadium, and this was by Reading fans side to be pretty much the least violent fans.
Went to Burnley for the play-off semi-final and inside the stadium really was the BNP headquarters. Similarly encountered 'fans' handing out EDL fliers outside numerous away games.

All in all, can't really blame Thatcher and others for thinking football fans were scum in the 70's/80's, when even in the 21st Century when things have vastly improved it still appears to me that a very large proportion of football fans are scum.

[sandman]

Amazing how a discussion on the Team Board has descended into a slanging match between a Liverpool fan and a Chelsea fan.

[Norfolk Royal]

I can't really understand why any football fan would want to honour Margaret Thatcher before a football match.

Let's face it, she and her government were hardly friends of football supporters! To them we were all the scourge of society, to be deprived of our rights and treated like shyte because football, rather than the society the politicians had helped create, was the source of all evil.

Wasn't around pre-90's but from what I hear it was pretty violent times; my Dad didn't go to games for about 20 years because it just simply wasn't worth the agggro. It seems to me that whilst football violence may have had its roots in wider social problems it was much more than this alone.

Football gave degenerates the opportunity to act like packs of animals for many years and did not really attempt to stop this mentality until forced to do so by Governments and authority.

Whilst not all football fans are the scourge of society it does appear to me from my experience that most of the scourge of society are football fans.
The only time I have witnessed a woman get attacked by multiple men was inside a football stadium, and this was by Reading fans side to be pretty much the least violent fans.
Went to Burnley for the play-off semi-final and inside the stadium really was the BNP headquarters. Similarly encountered 'fans' handing out EDL fliers outside numerous away games.

All in all, can't really blame Thatcher and others for thinking football fans were scum in the 70's/80's, when even in the 21st Century when things have vastly improved it still appears to me that a very large proportion of football fans are scum.

It's a wonder you're interested in football at all with a bizarre take on history like that.

[P!ssed Off]

I can't really understand why any football fan would want to honour Margaret Thatcher before a football match.

Let's face it, she and her government were hardly friends of football supporters! To them we were all the scourge of society, to be deprived of our rights and treated like shyte because football, rather than the society the politicians had helped create, was the source of all evil.

Wasn't around pre-90's but from what I hear it was pretty violent times; my Dad didn't go to games for about 20 years because it just simply wasn't worth the agggro. It seems to me that whilst football violence may have had its roots in wider social problems it was much more than this alone.

Football gave degenerates the opportunity to act like packs of animals for many years and did not really attempt to stop this mentality until forced to do so by Governments and authority.

Whilst not all football fans are the scourge of society it does appear to me from my experience that most of the scourge of society are football fans.
The only time I have witnessed a woman get attacked by multiple men was inside a football stadium, and this was by Reading fans side to be pretty much the least violent fans.
Went to Burnley for the play-off semi-final and inside the stadium really was the BNP headquarters. Similarly encountered 'fans' handing out EDL fliers outside numerous away games.

All in all, can't really blame Thatcher and others for thinking football fans were scum in the 70's/80's, when even in the 21st Century when things have vastly improved it still appears to me that a very large proportion of football fans are scum.

It's a wonder you're interested in football at all with a bizarre take on history like that.

Which part was wrong? Did football fans stop fighting each other out of choice, not because of banning orders, disqualifications from tournaments and such?

When gangs fight it's usually spontaneous i.e. "look, there they are lets get them" or has to be organised over the phone or internet (time, place, number of people and whatever). All I'm saying is that football simplified this process and gave the opportunity at least twice a season for people of rival towns to fight.

If you thought my comment was aimed at the events of Hillsborough then you're wrong. I was saying that in general football fans are mostly to blame for the reputation of football fans.

[Z175]

Its a bit simple to say love football hate thatcher when today it still seems acceptable to deprive away fans of their liberties.

In the past decade I've been put on a train to Reading at Oxford (when I wanted to catch a bus), imprisoned on a coach on the M1 at Leicester and had harmless banners flags etc stolen by police at upton park... Look at TVP man handling the eldery and schoolage off the train from Southampton. And this is in the modern era of no fences, no fights and child and tv friendly atmospheres.

If there had been another tragedy like Hillsborough under Major, Blair, Brown or Cameron, there would probably have been another cover up.

In that context, I have no anger towards Thatcher for the attitude of "the state" towards football fans. Roll on those who want to shrink it, like the the late Baroness and current coalition.

[glass half full]

YNWA

Most pathetic song in football these days. Song itself is mediocre, gets cringeworthy when they sing it in a football stadium.
It's like some team singing Justin Bieber songs 30 years down the road.

At least they have a song which is easily recognisable.

[Jay o/]

YNWA

Most pathetic song in football these days. Song itself is mediocre, gets cringeworthy when they sing it in a football stadium.
It's like some team singing Justin Bieber songs 30 years down the road.

At least they have a song which is easily recognisable.

YNWA is iconic. Ideal is either on a wind up or just a complete and utter moron.

[winchester_royal]

Ideal is just a complete and utter moron.

[Norfolk Royal]

Pissed Off wrote:

Which part was wrong? Did football fans stop fighting each other out of choice, not because of banning orders, disqualifications from tournaments and such?

When gangs fight it's usually spontaneous i.e. "look, there they are lets get them" or has to be organised over the phone or internet (time, place, number of people and whatever). All I'm saying is that football simplified this process and gave the opportunity at least twice a season for people of rival towns to fight.

If you thought my comment was aimed at the events of Hillsborough then you're wrong. I was saying that in general football fans are mostly to blame for the reputation of football fans.


NR: To answer your points in this and the previous post. You said that football gave degenerates the opportunity to act like a pack of animals for many years.

The logical conclusion to that is that football should be played behind closed doors, which was tried in several instances in the 80s and still happens now. That punishes the majority of well behaved fans of course and is not tenable in the long term for obvious reasons.

You said that fans were forced to behave well by the Government and the authorities.

That is not true almost in its entirety. Incidents of hooliganism did not stop, and still take place now. It is true that banning orders, all seater grounds, tougher sentencing, all had their effect in minor ways.

But, as many authoritative commentators and fans themselves have noted, the real reason that hooliganism waned was that it simply fell out of fashion. It was a fashion at the time for hundreds of young men to travel the country because they found it exciting to do so with the threat, usually, of a possibly violent caper on the horizon. But when the rave culture of the 90s took hold, young people gravitated to that. It simply got boring for most to actively take part.

You said 'most of the scourge of society are football fans.'

That is patent nonsense. The vast majority of football fans are decent and well behaved. That is as much true now as it was in the 80s. It is true that in the 80s, there were occasions when large numbers of hooligans made up parts of the crowd, particularly at small venues, but those occasions were few and far between.

In a crowd of 40K there are of course people who misbehave, but that would be true at any such event attracting a crowd of that size.

[boycey]

Justice for the 39.

[Anfield Kopite]

Justice for the 39.

The total pricks who were involved with the trouble that lead to the deaths of the 39 were hunted down. The suspected ringleaders were charged with manslaughter. Those proven to be found were jailed. Not much else to do really.

[No Fixed Abode]

Justice for the 39.

The total pricks who were involved with the trouble that lead to the deaths of the 39 were hunted down. The suspected ringleaders were charged with manslaughter. Those proven to be found were jailed. Not much else to do really.

Liverpool could have asked for a minutes silence in last years FA Cup final as that was the closest fixture to the date of Heysel.

[Anfield Kopite]

Justice for the 39.

JUSTICE FOR THE 39!!!!

I refer to my post above yours. Stick to frothing at the mouth about muslims you racist twat.

[No Fixed Abode]

I think if Liverpool mentioned and honoured the dead of Heysel more, Juve fans wouldn't be so aggrieved about it.

[Anfield Kopite]

Justice for the 39.

The total pricks who were involved with the trouble that lead to the deaths of the 39 were hunted down. The suspected ringleaders were charged with manslaughter. Those proven to be found were jailed. Not much else to do really.

Liverpool could have asked for a minutes silence in last years FA Cup final as that was the closest fixture to the date of Heysel.

The FA Cup Final takes place at Wembley Kes. It is up to the FA if there is a minutes silence there.

[No Fixed Abode]

Did Liverpool ask for a min8s silence though? No.

[Snowball]

Justice for the 39.

The total pricks who were involved with the trouble that lead to the deaths of the 39 were hunted down. The suspected ringleaders were charged with manslaughter. Those proven to be found were jailed. Not much else to do really.

14 hooligans went to prison, British clubs were banned from Europe indefinitely (was for 5 years in the end) after Thatcher lobbied for the ban.

A tragedy partly caused by hooliganism, but also caused by a stupid policy that allowed opposing fans to be separated by a wire fence
and the whole thing in a decaying stadium with breed-block walls.

At first the police were exonerated but after an inquiry, the chief of police was charged with involuntary manslaughter.