BFTG Charlton

[semtex1871]

Didn't we all say we'd write off last season but he needed to improve this season? Seems to me that although the players can pass the ball around better there is no improvement in our results and that has to lie with the manager and his "tactics" whatever they are. If we continue to play the same style and not adapt to the different set up of teams we're playing, how long are you all willing to give him? Like I said before, we need a young, hungry manager who wants to prove himself and will give it a go - I'd rather see us go all out to win every week with a passion and hunger and still sometimes lose than a steady, pass the ball to each other all day but no final product, any day of the week

It would seem you've always been a bit keen to kick the current man out and get a new one in!

[madstadblues]

End product ?

Bizarrely I thought we played quite well yesterday and even when we were pushing in last 20 we were still trying to play football.

With regard to the varying views on 'end product' do we mean the cross or getting into the position to cross. In my view it's the latter and our build up play must be pretty good to get into a position to cross 35 times. The challenge is the quality of the cross - on the left we have a right footed left back and a wide midfielder that has been playing as a defender and doesn't have 'winger trickery' and on the right we have a defensive full back and a striker. Taking this into consideration it's not totally surprising our crossing is mediocre at best.

[Ian Royal]

Didn't we all say we'd write off last season but he needed to improve this season? Seems to me that although the players can pass the ball around better there is no improvement in our results and that has to lie with the manager and his "tactics" whatever they are. If we continue to play the same style and not adapt to the different set up of teams we're playing, how long are you all willing to give him? Like I said before, we need a young, hungry manager who wants to prove himself and will give it a go - I'd rather see us go all out to win every week with a passion and hunger and still sometimes lose than a steady, pass the ball to each other all day but no final product, any day of the week

In a word, No.

[AthleticoSpizz]

and until recent weeks, weren't we at risk of NA not even having a team to manage at all?.

As sad and unfortunate as it sounds to some on here....we need to write the first few months of this season off too. As the erudite Ian alludes to....he is gradually getting his squad back from injuries....judge him at the end of the season.

[Will95]

Not a bad performance by any means, Charlton really impressed me to be honest. They're not a great footballing side but they're strong and play to that, their marking was excellent. Cox had a great game though I thought. DO not understand how in 10 minutes I had worked out we would never score from long balls and crosses and would have to use our pace against them to score yet the team couldn't work that out in 90. What was with all the stopping when we got forward as well? Get moving!

[Will95]

Also, still love Pearce's passion, but he is fukking useless. Ferdinand, Cooper and Hector, in that order, are all much better options.

Also give up on fukking Kanu, he's had half a good season for us, ever.

[AthleticoSpizz]

What is it with Robson K?

Welsh international, scores a few for us (and a couple for them), but cannot seem to make that permanent step up

[sandman]

and until recent weeks, weren't we at risk of NA not even having a team to manage at all?.

As sad and unfortunate as it sounds to some on here....we need to write the first few months of this season off too. As the erudite Ian alludes to....he is gradually getting his squad back from injuries....judge him at the end of the season.

That would be Ian who is throwing out insults like nobodies business in the last two days. We were never seriously at risk of going out of business, there were several interested parties who would've been able to come in. Whether they'd have been suitable and indeed whether the owners who have been selected are suitable is a different matter.

Federici (international with vast championship experience including a winners medal)
Gunter (international with vast championship experience)
Pearce (international with vast championship experience including a winners medal)
Oliver Norwood ( Ex Man United trainee. Championship and international experience)
Simon Cox (Has played at international and Premier League level as well as the Championship)
Jamie Mackie(Premier League and Championship experience)
Glenn Murray (Championship experience including being top scorer two years ago)
Pogrebnyak (Former international with experience in the top competitions in European club football)

Maybe we should judge him when he has the whole squad back but it is certainly not unreasonable to judge him when he still has had some players with experience at this level and beyond available to him.

[THE HUMAN BISCUIT]

Something about their goal which no one seems to have mentioned is that there was a small deflection on the cross as it came over, pushing it past Pearce, and making it easier for Ventokele, who found the ball deflected invitingly in front of him.

I could see the line of flight directly from where i was sitting in the Upper West. At the time, I thought it was Pearce who had deflected it. But looking at the replays it must have been Norwood who was rushing back.

Just sayin'.

[Mike Hunt]

I used to be quite a positive poster on here & very pro Adkins but seriously??? If we can't beat bottom third oppo at home

He speaks the truth, however he was younger and naive back then.

[bcubed]

Oddly, up until we got the ball to the edge of their box, I thought it was one of the best displays this season (admittedly with the bar set pretty low). We actually looked to be playing with a bit of belief.

It's just that when we got that far, we blatantly didn't have a clue what to do with it. Yes, we did try a lot of crosses, but we appear to just swing the ball in without any effort to pick individual players out. We also don't really have that many players who are much good at getting on the end of crosses anyway.

In short, our tactics are poor, and we don't have players who really seem capable of fitting together to make a decent team.

Agreed
We looked far more cohesive and fluid than against Rotherham. First thirty minutes I thought the build up play was excellent, but and its a big but, we got nothing from Mackie or Obita. The right back had Jordan in his pocket - maybe a swap to the right side would have been worth a try?

We looked one dimensional, slow and predictable. As we have ever since Adkins took over. I defy anyone to tell me otherwise. We have no pace and we can't pass the ball at pace either which is what apparently Adkins wants (and has failed to deliver). As the season has progressed we are increasingly lumping it forward aimlessly.

Adkins is massively under performing with the talent at his disposal.Compare the Charlton team today and us. Not nearly good enough.

i think Williams and Norwood were excellent and ran the midfield. Norwood in particular seems to have a really clear vision of what's going on in front of him and is able to receive the ball and pass it straight away and accurately. There can be no complaints of lack of pace in that quarter.

If we seem slow paced it's because things got stuck once the ball reached the wings. Unfortunately Obita looked like the player he was before he was asked to play in defence. Pacy, but unable to beat his man (ever). The right back just showed him onto his left foot and then made a tackle or blocked his cross. I dont think Mackie is really a natural wide man either. Can't wait for McCleary to return

[Jano]

Absolutely gobsmacked that anyone could even hint at a suggestion of that being a good performance. It was so bad I was being nudged awake several times by my old man as I fell asleep in my seat. It was absolutely awful, highlighted by the same issues highlighted over and over again, that Adkins hasn't managed to rectify over several seasons and transfer windows.

We have no pace.
We pass far too slowly.
Our defence is dreadful.
We lack movement.
We have very little creativity.
We lose every single 50/50 ball.
We seem to be second to every single loose ball.

Bar mcleary that was supposedly pretty much our strongest side and it was terrible. Where s Karacan going to play if he comes into the side? I can't see him getting ahead of Norwood or Williams, he's not a winger and with Gunter not at right back he's not better defensively than Kelly. Left back maybe? Disaster waiting to happen. The only other swap I could just about imagine is taking Cox out, but he's about the only player we have that looks capable of creating and scoring something out of nothing. I also can't see Guthrie playing for us again bar injuries.

I have said it several times now and I will say it again, Murray offers nothing more than Pog did. Pog has become the symbol of the Russian ownership through no fault of his own, can anyone here seriously say they would turn down silly money if they were offered it, and then move on to lower money (if its even been offered) just because some of the fans say he should? Murray's hold up play may be ok, but what use is a lone striker who can't score and spends all his time outside the box? He wins about as many headers as Pog does, which helps the team about as much as it did when Pog won a header - very little as there was no one supporting him. As for our wingers, how I wish we had kept hold of McAnuff, anyone who is actually capable of taking on and beating a player instead of just running straight at them like Mackie.

The only thing I found mildly amusing in this game was Hectors little cameo up front after a corner, he actually looked quite good up front, better than any of our defenders look when actually defending.

[Hoop Blah]

Watching the final moments of the build up and it looks like Obita had let Charlton get a 2-on-1 against Gunter, which is what caused Pearce to be dragged out of position a little.

Personally I think Gunter yet again failed to get close enough to the man in possession and his habit of just half jockeying and refusing to put in a tackle gave him too much time and space to deliver a decent cross.

Hector could arguably come over to cover Pearce a bit quicker but, as much as the goal in a combination of failures, I'd say Gunters is the most glaring as he's supposed to be a top defender at this level and yet again his man finds it all too easy to cross and set up a chance.

Overall I think we played alright, probably better than we did against Rotherham but we came up against a better, well drilled, defence who defended much better against us.

Shock Horror a winger puts a ball in to the box How the Feck did a 5ft8 midget get the better of Hector and Pearce Gunter should may be get closer but the fault lies with the two CBS if a 5ft8 midget gets the better of them there is not much hope

You have to try and understand why the centre backs got beaten though, and largely that's because Gunter got overloaded and didn't do well enough to stop the cross (which has been a reoccuring theme all season, and longer).

The gap between the centre backs got too wide because Pearce, rightly, went out to cover the area vacated by Gunter and Hector didn't come over quick enough to cover the midget. That's a mistake too, but it all stems from what happened out on our left which is the bigger worry IMO.

[joeroyal]

Watching the final moments of the build up and it looks like Obita had let Charlton get a 2-on-1 against Gunter, which is what caused Pearce to be dragged out of position a little.

Personally I think Gunter yet again failed to get close enough to the man in possession and his habit of just half jockeying and refusing to put in a tackle gave him too much time and space to deliver a decent cross.

Hector could arguably come over to cover Pearce a bit quicker but, as much as the goal in a combination of failures, I'd say Gunters is the most glaring as he's supposed to be a top defender at this level and yet again his man finds it all too easy to cross and set up a chance.

Overall I think we played alright, probably better than we did against Rotherham but we came up against a better, well drilled, defence who defended much better against us.

Shock Horror a winger puts a ball in to the box How the Feck did a 5ft8 midget get the better of Hector and Pearce Gunter should may be get closer but the fault lies with the two CBS if a 5ft8 midget gets the better of them there is not much hope

You have to try and understand why the centre backs got beaten though, and largely that's because Gunter got overloaded and didn't do well enough to stop the cross (which has been a reoccuring theme all season, and longer).

The gap between the centre backs got too wide because Pearce, rightly, went out to cover the area vacated by Gunter and Hector didn't come over quick enough to cover the midget. That's a mistake too, but it all stems from what happened out on our left which is the bigger worry IMO.

Watch the goal again Obita lost his Man Gunter could not stop the cross Pearce was in no mans land and Hector was day dreaming, I ask again if Feds Pearce Hector cant stop a 5ft8 midget there's not much hope is there, fact of life son wingers put balls in to the box as we did 35 I think not very good ones but crosses they are deemed as so there RB AND LB must have been asleep by your way of thinking

[kwik-silva]

thoughts on it:

Despite good wins over Rotherham and Blackpool Saturday afternoon's loss to Charlton Athetlic means that The Royals have only picked up 8 points from a possible 33, and only won twice in the last 11. The latest result comes despite Reading having 61% possession, twenty shots, and all twelve corners in a game which they dominated but rarely threatened - as the fact that only two of those twenty shots hit the target illustrates perfectly.

The game started well for the home side, Murray nodding a cross from the right just over the bar. His link up play with Mackie and Cox was one of the positive points, although as the stats show it never led to much. Part of this was down to overplaying, 'the trouble with Arsenal is...' style. Nobody seemed to want to shoot from the edge of the area, and thus Charlton could easily regroup and frustrate us.

Obita's crossing didn't help much, almost every ball in from the left was easily dealt with. In fact, if you want a case study on why he should be pushed back into defence this game is perfect. Under pressure his crosses tended to hit the first player in red, and I can't remember a single ball making it into a dangerous position for Murray to attack. Alongside that he doesn't beat his man, instead he either attempts a difficult ball into the box, or lays it back to Gunter but then drifts inside sapping the width, and slowing down the play. Playing in defence he gets slightly more time to pick out crosses when the ball's laid back to him, and he doesn't need to go past defenders.

That said Gunter didn't aid him. Alongside Obita he was culpable in slowing down play due to his lack of a left foot, which hampered him immeasurably. It took away his attacking threat, and I only remember one ball down the touchline which unlocked Charlton, but the subsequent cross from Obita was, unsurprisingly, easily cleared.

As already alluded to, on the other wing the tireless Mackie had much more success. Obviously benefitting from playing with Cox before, the two from Forest worked tirelessly to win balls and get into good positions. The only time this faltered was when it was left to Murray to come out to the right, as none of the other forwards - Mackie, Cox, or Obita - are particularly known for their heading.

There was a brief period in the first half where Charlton were on top, and in that fleeting moment you can tell why the Addicks are six points above us in the table. Williams hassled Vetokele but failed to win the ball, and within moments the same player was leaping, unmarked, to flick Solly's cross past the diving Federici - absolutely nothing the Aussie could do.

Hector should have levelled moments later as his header on the six yard box somehow missed the post. I thought he had a good game despite the scoreline, and he actually managed to shimmy past defenders a couple of times and help set up chances but his heading has got to be better from a man of his size.

In the second half Reading were slightly more threatening, a good save from the Charlton keeper kept out Mackie after he was through, Norwood hit the post, and Blackman - after he eventually came on - narrowly missed the right-hand corner with a shot from the edge of the box. The problem was that Reading's 'all-out-attack' - read: loss of heads - gave Charlton chances as well, and it was only due to Federici's exceptional double save that The Royals weren't two behind.

The biggest problem was that Adkins left it far too late to make changes. It was obvious to everyone that substitutions were needed, but instead the manager left it until 80 minutes to freshen things up, which gave almost no time for the players coming on to bed into the game. Stranger still was the decision to replace Mackie with Pogrebnyak 3 minutes from time, when it was obvious that Obita was a much better candidate. Or, with three minutes left, take off one of the holding midfielders.

This match should've been an easy win at the end of the day when you look at the statistics, but instead Charlton have managed to leave with all the points, and, in fact, managed double our shots on target with only 39% of the ball - that says a lot.

taken from here

[Mike Hunt]

Well written ks

[floyd__streete]

Amuses me when people say "if you don't like it then don't effing well come". Do you think that the club shares that view, given the diminishing crowds