Reading and Liverpool - same problems

[3points]

I was reading this article in the Times yesterday, and its analysis of the problems Rodgers has with Liverpool seemed almost identical to those we're currently having. Here's the article - the line that I think is most relevant is "they cannot stop conceding goals because they are not set up to do so"

Another Liverpool game, another Liverpool mistake. In Sofia last night, it was Simon Mignolet at fault for the goal that gave Ludogorets the lead. It is not the first time this season that the finger of blame has pointed at the Belgium goalkeeper, but that hardly makes him unique. Dejan Lovren, Glen Johnson, Martin Skrtel, Mamadou Sakho and Kolo Touré have all been castigated at one point or another, too.
It is almost like there is a pattern emerging, almost like Liverpool’s inability to keep a clean sheet is not to do with their individual quality at all, but instead rooted in flaws in their collective structure.
Perhaps there would not be an issue if the problem was at the other end. There has been no debate, no mystery about why Aston Villa have not scored goals this season. Put simply, they are not set up to do so: they defend too deep, they cede possession, they try to strike on the counter. You simply cannot be prolific in those circumstances.
What is afflicting Liverpool is just the same. They cannot stop conceding goals because they are not set up to do so. To attribute their problems to a convenient succession of individual mistakes is a red herring. The issue runs deeper, all the way back to Brendan Rodgers.
Liverpool are a vending machine of a side: you’re always likely to get some change out of them. They are a team who continually give their opponents chances. Whether those opportunities are taken is a different matter, but they are always on offer. Liverpool always look vulnerable.
Is that a personnel issue? Are their defenders not good enough? That is the traditional interpretation, but it does not stand up to scrutiny. There is a reason that it does not matter who Rodgers puts in his back four. There is a reason that he can slot in Touré for Lovren or Sakho for Skrtel and it will not make a blind bit of difference.
That is because there is a far bigger problem than the names on the teamsheet: a chronic dysfunction in the system. Liverpool are a deeply average team without the ball. The midfield let runners go, they get caught on the turn, they miss tackles. The defence is not exactly top-class, of course, but they are made to look even worse by how little cover that they are offered. They make mistakes because they are given so many chances to make mistakes.
All of this was true last season, even while the goals of Luis Suárez and Daniel Sturridge disguised it, and it cost Liverpool dearly. They could not keep a clean sheet in the two most crucial games of the campaign — against Chelsea and Crystal Palace — and that denied them the Barclays Premier League title.
Rodgers has neglected to address that weakness, and in doing so he has revealed his shortcomings. His team give goals and games away. If he wishes to have a prolonged career at an elite club, that has to change. He has to show he is capable of crafting a side who are difficult to beat, of tightening up a defence, of drilling his midfield to give them cover. His failure is costing Liverpool. Continuing to ignore it, hoping it will change, would be the biggest mistake of all.

There are so many elements in here that are the same as our recent performances. Adkins has got to stop deploying the 4-2-3-1 system. It just isn't working. Perhaps, with hindsight, it was no surprise that some of our best form last system came about after the Brighton cup game and we reverted to a more structured 4-4-2 where each player was more sure of his responsibilities, both on and off the ball.

Who will go first? Adkins or Rodgers?

[Handsome Man]

The individual errors are a bit of a smokescreen for us, because the defenders are never going to prosper if there are only three of them on the pitch. Many teams play a back four with two defensive midfielders, whereas we have played Gunter, Hector and Pearce, with no cover and Obita having to play as a left winger most of the time.

Luckily, when Karacan is back, or we sign a holding midfielder, everything will be fine again.

Liverpool's problem is the same as Spurs last year. They have just bought too many players, and like at least half of the players they bought are rubbish.

[The Quiet Man]

I'd agree with a lot of that. At the start of the season I thought NA had got his system right with Hector as defensive midfield screen for the two centre backs it looked an effective use of the players that he had got. Something fundamental changed after Morrison was sold as he wasn't replaced and NA went on spending spree for forwards (Mackie, Cox, Murray and a passing midfielder). Unfortunately Hector has really struggled at centre half constantly being caught under the ball and out of position. There is also a lack of a midfield screen for the centre backs who are being caught far too often in one on ones with pacy forwards in central positions. Whether this was further compounded by the Ferdinand fiasco with an unfit centre half being hauled back from his Thai holidays and being nowhere near ready for Championship football, I'd say it probably has. We have ended up with too many forwards with no effective combination despite widespread rotation of possible pairings and a lack of cover for the full backs from the "wide" forwards we do employ. We've ended up with an exposed defence that has lost confidence and a tendency for players in midfield to take the easy option and lay square (see Carragher on Coutinho on Sky).

We are now a relegation side away from home (one win so far this season) and must hope that home form will hold up enough to allow us to meander around the lower half of the table.

[Vision]

I said something some time ago about the "defensive organisational" abilities of the so-called bright young things of management. Yer Rodgers', yer Pochettinos yer AVB's etc.

It's all about the Barcelona "high press", "get the ball back within 8 seconds malarkey". If that doesn't work they're relying entirely on the old adage of The Opposition Can't Score If We Have The Ball or on having genuine world class defenders/keeper.

Also the possession argument only really works if you have attacking players that the opposition genuinely fear so that even if they mount a counter attack they still have half an eye on what could happen if they're caught out. It's why you can't underestimate the effect of a Bale or a Suarez and why if you can't replace someone who installs the same fear then you have to adapt your style.

Weirdly a supposed football dinosaur like McD could teach them a thing or two about flexibility when losing your differencemaker/star player.

In their defence I'm not sure how much say those guys have had in player recruitment at their clubs but either way the very essence of management is getting the best from the resources available.

I'm not sure there are direct parallels with our current situation although perhaps with the loss of McCleary, Adkins has been unable to replace that X Factor that he provides and as a result there's a knock on effect further down the line.

[Waylenstreet]

Liverpool are notoriously unforgiving.
Adkins is safe for the moment because his presence fits the agenda...managed decline.

[3points]

We also looked better at the start of the season with a higher proportion of the academy players more heavily involved. I think they brought more energy and worked much harder than those who have returned from injury. Some looked a bit lightweight at times though and will always make mistakes due to inexperience.

I wonder if Adkins has any idea what his best team actually is?

[Nuremberg Royal]

Interesting comparisons made and certainly thought provoking .....
On a lighter note I wonder if losing Alf has had the same impact as losing Luis Suarez

[floyd__streete]

Interesting to say Rodgers struggle so badly this season.

He came close to winning a title last season with the benefit of one of the world's best players propping them up. Without him they look dreadful.

Rodgers did a good job with Swansea, albeit with someone else's side. He was a disaster at Reading.

Rodgers talks a good game, that is for sure. I suspect in 10 years time he'll still be spinning the same old Brent-esque management-speak bullsh*t while he is managing someone like Wycombe Wanderers.

[Royal Lady]

Interesting to say Rodgers struggle so badly this season.

He came close to winning a title last season with the benefit of one of the world's best players propping them up. Without him they look dreadful.

Rodgers did a good job with Swansea, albeit with someone else's side. He was a disaster at Reading.

Rodgers talks a good game, that is for sure. I suspect in 10 years time he'll still be spinning the same old Brent-esque management-speak bullsh*t while he is managing someone like Wycombe Wanderers.

Yep - with "positive" Adkins as his number 2 - which is apt

[3points]

Interesting comparisons made and certainly thought provoking .....
On a lighter note I wonder if losing Alf has had the same impact as losing Luis Suarez

er, no

[Y21]

Adkins is safe for the moment because his presence fits the agenda...managed decline.

Not quite sure what you're getting at? Do you think our new owners want us relegated? To what purpose?

[Whatevs]

same problems? They're both shite and supportrd by pcunts? etc

[RG7Fan]

Who will go first? Adkins or Rodgers?

Rodgers, for the following reasons:

1. The Premier league is very fickle
2. Liverpool have the £ to sack and rehire
3. The club and fans expect
4. They are no doubt way below where they had targeted

As for Reading. Well, the fans want the best, but frankly we cant expect top of the table performance on bottom of the table budget. Adkins has really only had his own way (and "some" money) for the last 5-6 months so give him a break - BUT if we did in to the relegation zone then its fair game in my view.

[fruits]

Surely Rodgers biggest mistake has been not replacing Suarez and when it was obvious that Sturridge , is/was a sick note didn´t get a suitable replacement. Lambert is ok but he isn´t half a Suarez.
The two Suarez and Sturridge scored over 50 goals between them, last season, who did Rodgers buy the Italian nutter who won´t score 50 goals in 10 seasons?
What team can expect to do well if they lose over 50 goals in a season? While two players are scoring over 50 goals in a season , surely that takes a lot of pressure off the defence.

Moyes had the same problem last season , Van Persie wasn´t scoring goals ,when the season before he was scoring for fun.

I think the problem with Atkins is the constant changing of the team ,no matter how well an individual has played the game before. I expect he will drop Cooper and either say he is injured or as Pearce and Ferdinand are more experienced they should play to counteract Bolton´s attacking threat. Also this playing of Robson-Kanu makes no sense to me, Cox should be a fixture in the team. Robson Kanu has been useless since he signed his new contract , he might play well for Wales but for Reading he is useless.

[Royal Rother]

Adkins is safe for the moment because his presence fits the agenda...managed decline.

Not quite sure what you're getting at? Do you think our new owners want us relegated? To what purpose?

Indeed. The bloke's a fool,

[Nuremberg Royal]

Interesting comparisons made and certainly thought provoking .....
On a lighter note I wonder if losing Alf has had the same impact as losing Luis Suarez

er, no

Apologies Mr. 3 points
Tongue firmly in cheek

[Lower West]

I think the problem with Atkins is the constant changing of the team ,no matter how well an individual has played the game before. I expect he will drop Cooper and either say he is injured or as Pearce and Ferdinand are more experienced they should play to counteract Bolton´s attacking threat. Also this playing of Robson-Kanu makes no sense to me, Cox should be a fixture in the team. Robson Kanu has been useless since he signed his new contract , he might play well for Wales but for Reading he is useless.

Forced changes. I'm sure that Atkins would love to have a fully fit squad to pick a team from.

[Royal Rother]

It's Adkins.

[fruits]

Forced changes. I'm sure that Atkins would love to have a fully fit squad to pick a team from.

I wasn´t talking about forced changes through injury. I was talking about games like Brentford where he dropped Cox and Mackie who had been the stars in the previous game, There have been plenty of times when he has done this and then brought these same players on after an hour, so they cannot have been injured.

I just hope he doesn´t drop Cooper on Saturday , it could the youngster back years. I know he is raw and will have bad games ,but really can he make more mistakes than Pearce? How would you feel if you were MOM , had scored two goals to win the match and then end up on the bench in the next game?

[Angry Shed Sex]

Interesting to say Rodgers struggle so badly this season.

He came close to winning a title last season with the benefit of one of the world's best players propping them up. Without him they look dreadful.

Rodgers did a good job with Swansea, albeit with someone else's side. He was a disaster at Reading.

Rodgers talks a good game, that is for sure. I suspect in 10 years time he'll still be spinning the same old Brent-esque management-speak bullsh*t while he is managing someone like Wycombe Wanderers.

Where's Royalee when you need him for a balanced and well thought out reasoning on Rodgers' failings this season?