where did it all go wrong?

[Westwood52]

The lessons of the last three years, just show how easy it is for a relatively stable club to tip into a very fragile state.
I never thought I would see Reading having to sell players to pay the monthly HMRC bill or the current apathy from the supporters-bar about 8000 true Royals.
In the last three years we have had an owner Mr Mad-who both over extended himself financially and fell out of love with owning a football club. We then had an owner who disappeared and now the current situation where we do not really know who owns the Club.
Whether we go the way of Portsmouth, Leeds etc remains to be seen-or whether we join the likes of Stoke/Soton/Hull/Palace/QPR which is the level we should be aiming for.
The sacking of Adkins is a positive signal-as I didn't think there was anyone at the Club who was in the position to make a decision.
However I still feel we are in a very difficult situation.
Meanwhile the Football League live on in their Ivory Tower

[Forbury Lion]

I think our scouting was also very poor once we got into the premier league (both times) and we struggled to buy players who were any better than the players we already had.

plus by the second time our head scout, who unearthed some good players was the manager, Brian McDermott - I think that left a hole in the scouting network and more so when he was sacked as manager.

Also, in the recent past there have been some great local players lost to clubs outside of the local area - In one example, a mate of mine spoke to a scout about an exceptionally gifted left back, The scout agreed he had potential but they were under instructions only to find talent that could break into the first team now or in the very near future. Thankfully, we are now looking at things more long term with the academy bearing fruit.

[North Somerset Royal]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

All oh so true. This was also the era that really hooked me as a Reading fan and if I remember rightly Mansell wanted to sign a ball playing centre half whose name escapes me but wasn't backed by the board. This is not just another rose tinted glasses wearing oldie speaking, but the end result didn't seem to be the sole reason for supporting the team then, it was just the pleasure of the journey. In these days of huge wage packets and even bigger egos some of the joy has disappeared. Dick Habbin even worked on a building site during the summer ! Even back in those days there were still villains though. For AZ read Frank Waller !

Yes it was the exciting brand of football under Jack Mansell that got me hooked too. Players that you could actually relate to playing their hearts out for the shirt unlike todays overpaid mercenaries. Great post Strap.

[Gilksy]

Apologies if this is a naive question but as title. when we were both in the prem last I thought you had squad that hadn't quite gelled into a team at that time. You always struck as well run. although I don't support you, I quite like you and always have. So, whats gone wrong?

SJM - Held us back financially for a long time now, unable to loosen the purse strings even just a small amount to give us a chance in the PL. Still heavilly involved, doing things his way, holding us back.

Zingarevich - Suspect owner, many lies, reliant on Daddies money, Daddy pulled the plug, leaving us with a horrendous wage bill and some ridiculously over-paid average players.

Thai's - We have no idea who they are, what their intentions are, and if as rumoured we're up for sale again. We could quite possibly be the next Pompey yet! One shit storm to another.

[paddy20]

Afraid that whatever was happening behind the scenes Adkins just failed to produce any sort of improvement.

1. The quality of the football has deteriorated
2. His signings have been unremarkable
3. The crowds have dropped
4. His communication was awful
5. His post match summaries were totally embaressing
6. His tactics were predictable
7. His choice of captain was flawed
8. His continuing chopping of the team even after a win was counter- productive
9. His tactics were predictable
10. His back room staff were

Yes he was a nice man and acted with dignity at all times but perhaps if he had let off some steam and shown some real passion it may have helped us all have some kind of connection with him. But sadly after watching Reading for 50 years he was the first manager to make me contemplate giving up watching.

[Fox Talbot]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

The perfect post. Quoted in full. Absolutely nailed it. End of thread.

Well. nearly. Too much red wine has affected Strap's dates - Mansell was sacked in 1971-72, having got us relegated to Div 4 for the first time rather than the Div 2 we were all expecting. Talking to some of the players years later they blamed the Board (Waller) for not spending just £5k buying a centre half from Fulham (Dave Roberts) when the defence was creaking / had either Sharpe or Morgan in it and Mansell himself for adopting a more direct style (there was a new coach whose name escapes me).

[Pete10]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

The perfect post. Quoted in full. Absolutely nailed it. End of thread.

Well. nearly. Too much red wine has affected Strap's dates - Mansell was sacked in 1971-72, having got us relegated to Div 4 for the first time rather than the Div 2 we were all expecting. Talking to some of the players years later they blamed the Board (Waller) for not spending just £5k buying a centre half from Fulham (Dave Roberts) when the defence was creaking / had either Sharpe or Morgan in it and Mansell himself for adopting a more direct style (there was a new coach whose name escapes me).

The coach was Ray Henderson , He wanted Jack to play a more direct style . Two of the previous seasons team hardly played 70/71 season , Bobby Williams and Les Chappel. The two top scorers from the previous season.

[Baggie192]

Apologies if this is a naive question but as title. when we were both in the prem last I thought you had squad that hadn't quite gelled into a team at that time. You always struck as well run. although I don't support you, I quite like you and always have. So, whats gone wrong?

Money.

A want away chairman who most of us could see could not sustain is any longer. Most of us could see the massive cracks appearing in the club when we bizarrely chose not to invest in the Prem the first time round. Most of of us that is except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Then we got Anton and again alarm bells should have been ringing when money wasn't ploughed in and instead our best were sold. Most of us could see the massive cracks continuing in the club when we bizarrely chose not to invest in the Prem again. Most of of us that is except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Now he's gone too, it has become clear what has been going on and the fact is we've been in a financial "transitional" period for a few years. Most of of us could see that except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Adkins was caught up in all that poor chap and we've slid down.

Hopefully when we're settled again financially we'll pick back up and do well again.

I understand it's cash. What I don't get is why a club such s yourselves didn't follow our lead? Reading is the only "Big Club" in Berkshire and I mean no disresect by that. We have Blues, Villa and the D1ngle5 all within 10 miles we've had to compete. The late 80's up until early 00's were dark days for us. Villa will always a Doug Ellis type, Wo1ve5 were lucky to have Sir Jack Heyward, then Steve Morgan with Mck McCarthy to paper the cracks. We didn't, we were lucky when Peace was appointed in 2001. A year early we were the joke club of the midlands and were sliding to both League ! and Administration. That first promotion was a godsend Peace's plan was simple strengthen for relegation with the aim to get promoted within two years also target part of the club to improve. when we got relegateed we strengthened for promotion and chose another area to improve. as the money went up we were able to more. This approach does hit its tipping point though. that is why Hodgson was appointed We've also gone th euro Head Coach/DOF since Mowbray. Which hit absolute pinnicle in Clarke's first 6 months. Where we go with AFI I really dunno, Because I like a lot of our fans were upset with how Pepe Mel was treated. He saved us when it went tits up for Clarke, I'm not here to Slag your new manager though as the club got a whole host of stuff wrong at a high level. All that being said we went from joke to no. 2 club in the west midlands in 15 years. Four promotions and a 2 year stopover it took us. Reading have had two promotion you've proved you can do it. Have the people in charge got the forsight to follo something like our plan?

[Ian Royal]

There's a lot of luck involved. We may have matched some of WBA's progress if we'd bounced straight back up under Coppell, but we just fell away and drifted into play off failure.

Since then we've been fighting to keep the finances on an even keel and we cocked up our second chance, then got shafted by the Russian.

We're at a cross roads at the moment. We could easily recover and carrying on flirting with the PL, or we could slip and spend our time back flirting with League One. A lot will depend on how Clarke does and how the Thais do. And a big part of that is shifting big money failures like Drenthe, Pogrebnyak and Guthrie so we can add the quality we need to complement the excellent youth we've got coming through.

[Baggie192]

There's a lot of luck involved. We may have matched some of WBA's progress if we'd bounced straight back up under Coppell, but we just fell away and drifted into play off failure.

Since then we've been fighting to keep the finances on an even keel and we cocked up our second chance, then got shafted by the Russian.

We're at a cross roads at the moment. We could easily recover and carrying on flirting with the PL, or we could slip and spend our time back flirting with League One. A lot will depend on how Clarke does and how the Thais do. And a big part of that is shifting big money failures like Drenthe, Pogrebnyak and Guthrie so we can add the quality we need to complement the excellent youth we've got coming through.

we've benefitted from having a wealth consultant as Chairman has helped us it's seems. Perhaps being so close to the other 3 teams has forced our to be ruthleely competitive not have the finances of a Villa or Wo1ve5 by no means am I saying they've always got things right they haven't especially these last two years. They do know when to be ruthless. Clarke's a strange one he inherited a team on a high from Roy Hodgson, plus the Lukaku loan. Got off to a flyer, but, by Christmas 12 it was quickly going pear shaped fell out with Odemwingie so lost his goals. We had trouble with a kit man leaking stuff to the press who should have been delt with far quicker than it was. Not making Lukaku the prime target as a permanant signing instead chasing Chelsea old guard of Anelka and Kalou while missing better younger target. In fair thought half the blame should go to our weak DOF who didn't stand up to him. we never did sign Kalou massive waste of time. Most daming of all played 34 won 7. Hope he works out despite what I've just said he's weirdly likeable He needs a strong DOF though

[Y25Beryl]

Great thread.
Zingarevich definitely the culprit recently.
However appointing the respected but tactically inept Barry Findus in the early 80's was a massive mistake which derailed the club a little, I think.

[Dick Habbin's hairdo]

Talking to some of the players years later they blamed the Board (Waller) for not spending just £5k buying a centre half from Fulham (Dave Roberts) when the defence was creaking / had either Sharpe or Morgan in it and Mansell himself for adopting a more direct style (there was a new coach whose name escapes me).

Indeed. We were bereft of a commanding centre back and Roberts would have filled the bill. Morgan was too lightweight - except for the bullet header playing Arsenal in the cup,.... :-p

Les Chappell, a most unlikely centre forward who always came up trumps, especially when big Percy came in along side him. My boyhood dreams of pro footballers being paragons on fitness were shattered when he turned up up Clayfield Copse one summer playing for Pangbourne..... but that is another story.

If it wasn't for the Villa game then the future of RFC may have been so different.

[AthleticoSpizz]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

Yes of course

But I blame the PA of the day....no Make a noise and back da boize shizzle

it was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRPK425wLuQ

as the players marched off and the half time score boards were awkwardly (and usually wrongly) placed into their slots at the Town end

[Lower West]

In the last three years we have had an owner Mr Mad-who both over extended himself financially and fell out of love with owning a football club.

That's an unfair comment. The game financially has moved on since JM first invested in the club. It's a billionaires play thing now.

In fact I'm rather enjoying having owners that are taking a back seat. Far more in the Reading mould of operation.

[North Somerset Royal]

Talking to some of the players years later they blamed the Board (Waller) for not spending just £5k buying a centre half from Fulham (Dave Roberts) when the defence was creaking / had either Sharpe or Morgan in it and Mansell himself for adopting a more direct style (there was a new coach whose name escapes me).

Indeed. We were bereft of a commanding centre back and Roberts would have filled the bill. Morgan was too lightweight - except for the bullet header playing Arsenal in the cup,.... :-p

Les Chappell, a most unlikely centre forward who always came up trumps, especially when big Percy came in along side him. My boyhood dreams of pro footballers being paragons on fitness were shattered when he turned up up Clayfield Copse one summer playing for Pangbourne..... but that is another story.

If it wasn't for the Villa game then the future of RFC may have been so different.

I blame the ref at that Villa game. If he had spotted that Terry Bell was pushed in the back as he went up to head the ball clear and had disallowed the own goal we would have stayed up and things would have been very different going forward. I won't have a word said against Stuart Morgan however. He bought me a pint once in a pub down Fulham Palace Road where the team coach stopped after Fulham away.

[Tommy Jenkins]

Well, Well, Well

Talking of the Mansell days we had a great chance of getting promoted we were second in the league. We had a magician of a player called Tommy Jenkins who was ripping opponents apart. If we had kept hold of him we would have got promoted no problem.
What happened Mr Frank Waller sold him to Southampton to pay for getting floodlights installed at Elm Park.
We then fell apart and finished mid table. So the lack of ambition should not be directed at Sir John only. Thankfully Mr Smee came in and saved us from Mad Max

[Reading ralph]

This s a pathetic response but I really don't think we've had the rub of the green. I've seen a lot of games home and away and nothing has gone our way. Last week at Birmingham we were honestly not that bad. We looked a far better team. Passing, movement but no end result. I'm not wearing blue and white glasses Brentford was another game when I couldn't believe we'd lost! Luck plays its part look at Man U this season.

[frimmers3]

The only way to make a fortune out of a football club is to start with a bigger one.

[Fox Talbot]

Well, Well, Well

Talking of the Mansell days we had a great chance of getting promoted we were second in the league. We had a magician of a player called Tommy Jenkins who was ripping opponents apart. If we had kept hold of him we would have got promoted no problem.
What happened Mr Frank Waller sold him to Southampton to pay for getting floodlights installed at Elm Park.
We then fell apart and finished mid table. So the lack of ambition should not be directed at Sir John only. Thankfully Mr Smee came in and saved us from Mad Max

Hum. Lot of revisionism in this post. With Jenkins in the team we were mid to lower-mid table. Of the famous 15 match unbeaten run he played in only the first game. The proper didn't start until three games after Jenkins had gone and Cumming come in. We then went top in February. What killed us was not playing Luton in January (postponed) when they had a weak team. They were stronger when the re-arranged game was played in March, won 1-0, ended our unbeaten run and went up. We were still in with a shout going into Easter but the lack of a centre half told as we lost 0-4, 1-2, 0-5 in successive games.

[Tommy Jenkins]

In July 1969, Reading snapped Tommy Jenkins up from Margate for £500. Jenkins made an immediate impact for Reading. Scoring goals and creating havoc for the opposition and making many more as a speedy tricky winger.His form was such that only after 10 games most of the old first division teams sent scouts to watch him, in December of that year after only playing 26 matches for Reading Ted Bates signed him for the considerable sum in those days of £60,000 for Southampton. Frank Waller used the money to buy floodlights. It was considered at the time that if Reading had kept hold of Tommy Jenkins for the whole season promotion was almost a certainty.
1969 was also the year Jack Mansell ordered a return to the traditional blue and white hoops from the Coventry style sky blue kit.