The fans alternative course of action.

[John Smith]

My favourite example of anything along those lines is when someone claims to be embarrassed by our support, get some self esteem yo!

Says the bloke who's constantly making sarcastic jabs about other fans, and who said this on a recent match thread:

Reading fans are absolute fvxking idiots

Silver Fox has been dug out!

[Victor Meldrew]

As an addendum to Green's question, what is it that goes wrong for so many people in their childhood/teenage years that stops them from developing competent, adult emotional stability? I just can't begin to understand people, some of whom are as old as 26 or 27, whose moods are genuinely impacted by football results and who get worked up about the ways other people show their support.

Agreed about the last bit-people on here do get worked up about singing, chanting, booing etc and question the loyalty of anybody who doesn't sing or cheer.It's as if going to football is the same as going to Butlins, it isn't.

One thing I feel that people locally don't understand is how it feels as a fan of any club who lives in enemy territory.
Obviously this excludes London where nobody talks to anybody but in the civilised rest of the country once people are aware of the team that you support that then becomes part of you.
"I see your lot got stuffed again on Saturday"
"How did Reading get on?"
You are somehow representative of the club so you are not embarrassed as the odd poster on here seems to be (in fact in the good times it can be uplifting to hear good things about your hometown and your hometown's club) but your mood is affected by results and the league table.
Who really wants to be reminded on a Monday morning that your team has lost at home to the bottom club?.

Those living locally don't have to defend anything or get involved very deeply in discussion-in Reading and out in the sticks of Woodley or Theale people understand the mood already and the question becomes more like "what are WE going to do?" or" what do you think will happen to US?"
Seb of all people (legal beagle that he is) should understand that defending a cause is not always easy so the mood is affected when things aren't going well and what makes things worse is if you currently live in somewhere like Brighton or Bournemouth or Southampton where you are reminded of where we were not so long ago and might still be if the club had been managed better.
I know that things are cyclical (look at Portsmouth or Sunderland or Coventry) but it is not easy to always take a longer term view.

As I see it , being a fan is something that is with you forever and unlike Seb (not criticising) ,who appears to have a passion for the arts but no passion when it comes to football, the exploits of your team do affect the mood for most of us.
Personally I get in a better mood after yet another home defeat because of the drive back home and hearing fans of other clubs going on about the ills of their teams on the radio and being reminded that so many fans feel the same on a Saturday evening-that is quite therapeutic.

[jd82]

My favourite example of anything along those lines is when someone claims to be embarrassed by our support, get some self esteem yo!

Says the bloke who's constantly making sarcastic jabs about other fans, and who said this on a recent match thread:

Reading fans are absolute fvxking idiots

Silver Fox has been dug out!

At the risk of whiteknighting SF here, those two things are not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sebastian the Red]

As an addendum to Green's question, what is it that goes wrong for so many people in their childhood/teenage years that stops them from developing competent, adult emotional stability? I just can't begin to understand people, some of whom are as old as 26 or 27, whose moods are genuinely impacted by football results and who get worked up about the ways other people show their support.

Agreed about the last bit-people on here do get worked up about singing, chanting, booing etc and question the loyalty of anybody who doesn't sing or cheer.It's as if going to football is the same as going to Butlins, it isn't.

One thing I feel that people locally don't understand is how it feels as a fan of any club who lives in enemy territory.
Obviously this excludes London where nobody talks to anybody but in the civilised rest of the country once people are aware of the team that you support that then becomes part of you.
"I see your lot got stuffed again on Saturday"
"How did Reading get on?"
You are somehow representative of the club so you are not embarrassed as the odd poster on here seems to be (in fact in the good times it can be uplifting to hear good things about your hometown and your hometown's club) but your mood is affected by results and the league table.
Who really wants to be reminded on a Monday morning that your team has lost at home to the bottom club?.

Those living locally don't have to defend anything or get involved very deeply in discussion-in Reading and out in the sticks of Woodley or Theale people understand the mood already and the question becomes more like "what are WE going to do?" or" what do you think will happen to US?"
Seb of all people (legal beagle that he is) should understand that defending a cause is not always easy so the mood is affected when things aren't going well and what makes things worse is if you currently live in somewhere like Brighton or Bournemouth or Southampton where you are reminded of where we were not so long ago and might still be if the club had been managed better.
I know that things are cyclical (look at Portsmouth or Sunderland or Coventry) but it is not easy to always take a longer term view.

As I see it , being a fan is something that is with you forever and unlike Seb (not criticising) ,who appears to have a passion for the arts but no passion when it comes to football, the exploits of your team do affect the mood for most of us.
Personally I get in a better mood after yet another home defeat because of the drive back home and hearing fans of other clubs going on about the ills of their teams on the radio and being reminded that so many fans feel the same on a Saturday evening-that is quite therapeutic.

Actually, something you've said there has struck a chord. Throughout school (in Hertfordshire) I was "the Reading fan". The Monday morning experience you detail was all too real. I became increasingly passionate about the club the more it was under attack. It was very much part of my identity.

My time at university was an absolute boom-time for the club (04-08) so it was pretty easy to keep on track, even though it wasn't really part of me any more, as literally no one gave a shit about football.

Post university I just lost all interest, either through having other things to keep me entertained, or because I resented spending nearly £100 a weekend, and losing all of my Saturday, on really unentertaining stuff - it coincided with an increase in income, and a deepending passion for theatre, and thought that spending £100 a week was better spent on 4 or 5 theatre tickets, rather than going to watch what was an increasingly boring sport, surrounded by witless divs shouting 'terrace humour'.

I think if, perhaps, I was still in any way embattled for the fact that I followed Reading it would probably reignite some kind of interest or passion. I think my kids getting older and maybe going along a bit as well will also help. In truth, I think it far more likely that we'll develop into a 'rugby family', going along to Quins or something fairly regularly. But we shall see.

[genome]

Says the bloke who's constantly making sarcastic jabs about other fans, and who said this on a recent match thread:

Silver Fox has been dug out!

At the risk of whiteknighting SF here, those two things are not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.

No you're right, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest someone would be embarrassed by an idiot

[Old Boy Blue]

Great post Victor you are spot on about what being a fan is all about. I wish the arrogant and obnoxious Mr Stam had the slightest idea then he wouldn't shoot himself and the Club in the foot everytime he opens his big mouth.
I have supported the Club over 50 years and have never hated any Club employee like this big numpty.
I am now told by Stam it is my fault when the team are playing crap and getting beat at home once again because I dare to voice my discontent and show a lack of respect to the grossly overpaid and underperforming bunch of mercaneries he has assembled.
So Jappy it is not your god awful recruitment at a cost never seen at the Club before, it is not your god awful tactics, its not your erractic team selection and your brainless substitutions. The real problem is the fans!! Well done worry Jaap they are disappearing at a rate of knots and wont be back until the Club grow a pair and sack you.

[jd82]

As an addendum to Green's question, what is it that goes wrong for so many people in their childhood/teenage years that stops them from developing competent, adult emotional stability? I just can't begin to understand people, some of whom are as old as 26 or 27, whose moods are genuinely impacted by football results and who get worked up about the ways other people show their support.

Agreed about the last bit-people on here do get worked up about singing, chanting, booing etc and question the loyalty of anybody who doesn't sing or cheer.It's as if going to football is the same as going to Butlins, it isn't.

One thing I feel that people locally don't understand is how it feels as a fan of any club who lives in enemy territory.
Obviously this excludes London where nobody talks to anybody but in the civilised rest of the country once people are aware of the team that you support that then becomes part of you.
"I see your lot got stuffed again on Saturday"
"How did Reading get on?"
You are somehow representative of the club so you are not embarrassed as the odd poster on here seems to be (in fact in the good times it can be uplifting to hear good things about your hometown and your hometown's club) but your mood is affected by results and the league table.
Who really wants to be reminded on a Monday morning that your team has lost at home to the bottom club?.

Those living locally don't have to defend anything or get involved very deeply in discussion-in Reading and out in the sticks of Woodley or Theale people understand the mood already and the question becomes more like "what are WE going to do?" or" what do you think will happen to US?"
Seb of all people (legal beagle that he is) should understand that defending a cause is not always easy so the mood is affected when things aren't going well and what makes things worse is if you currently live in somewhere like Brighton or Bournemouth or Southampton where you are reminded of where we were not so long ago and might still be if the club had been managed better.
I know that things are cyclical (look at Portsmouth or Sunderland or Coventry) but it is not easy to always take a longer term view.

As I see it , being a fan is something that is with you forever and unlike Seb (not criticising) ,who appears to have a passion for the arts but no passion when it comes to football, the exploits of your team do affect the mood for most of us.
Personally I get in a better mood after yet another home defeat because of the drive back home and hearing fans of other clubs going on about the ills of their teams on the radio and being reminded that so many fans feel the same on a Saturday evening-that is quite therapeutic.

Actually, something you've said there has struck a chord. Throughout school (in Hertfordshire) I was "the Reading fan". The Monday morning experience you detail was all too real. I became increasingly passionate about the club the more it was under attack. It was very much part of my identity.

My time at university was an absolute boom-time for the club (04-08) so it was pretty easy to keep on track, even though it wasn't really part of me any more, as literally no one gave a shit about football.

Post university I just lost all interest, either through having other things to keep me entertained, or because I resented spending nearly £100 a weekend, and losing all of my Saturday, on really unentertaining stuff - it coincided with an increase in income, and a deepending passion for theatre, and thought that spending £100 a week was better spent on 4 or 5 theatre tickets, rather than going to watch what was an increasingly boring sport, surrounded by witless divs shouting 'terrace humour'.

I think if, perhaps, I was still in any way embattled for the fact that I followed Reading it would probably reignite some kind of interest or passion. I think my kids getting older and maybe going along a bit as well will also help. In truth, I think it far more likely that we'll develop into a 'rugby family', going along to Quins or something fairly regularly. But we shall see.

Swap theatre for golf and benders and i'm right up the same street here. Even tried to reignite my interest by going to all the London away games. i think my record is P 12 - W 1 D 2 L 9

[Sebastian the Red]

Great post Victor you are spot on about what being a fan is all about. I wish the arrogant and obnoxious Mr Stam had the slightest idea then he wouldn't shoot himself and the Club in the foot everytime he opens his big mouth.
I have supported the Club over 50 years and have never hated any Club employee like this big numpty.
I am now told by Stam it is my fault when the team are playing crap and getting beat at home once again because I dare to voice my discontent and show a lack of respect to the grossly overpaid and underperforming bunch of mercaneries he has assembled.
So Jappy it is not your god awful recruitment at a cost never seen at the Club before, it is not your god awful tactics, its not your erractic team selection and your brainless substitutions. The real problem is the fans!! Well done worry Jaap they are disappearing at a rate of knots and wont be back until the Club grow a pair and sack you.

do you not think that, if we stick with him in the long term his tactics will bear fruit? Don't you think chairmen are a bit too quick to pull the trigger these days, instead of letting a long term vision play out? Imagine what would have happened if Man Utd had sacked Ferguson when he was under a hell of a lot of pressure in 1990?

[Hound]

Great post Victor you are spot on about what being a fan is all about. I wish the arrogant and obnoxious Mr Stam had the slightest idea then he wouldn't shoot himself and the Club in the foot everytime he opens his big mouth.
I have supported the Club over 50 years and have never hated any Club employee like this big numpty.
I am now told by Stam it is my fault when the team are playing crap and getting beat at home once again because I dare to voice my discontent and show a lack of respect to the grossly overpaid and underperforming bunch of mercaneries he has assembled.
So Jappy it is not your god awful recruitment at a cost never seen at the Club before, it is not your god awful tactics, its not your erractic team selection and your brainless substitutions. The real problem is the fans!! Well done worry Jaap they are disappearing at a rate of knots and wont be back until the Club grow a pair and sack you.

do you not think that, if we stick with him in the long term his tactics will bear fruit? Don't you think chairmen are a bit too quick to pull the trigger these days, instead of letting a long term vision play out? Imagine what would have happened if Man Utd had sacked Ferguson when he was under a hell of a lot of pressure in 1990?

I think the club may have been justified in giving the boot a month or so ago. But unless we need to do something dramatic with 4/5 games to go, then there is little point in getting rid now.

May as well give him the end of the season, presuming we avoid going down, and give him a couple of months next year. I'd really like to see a proper shake up of the coaching in pre-season though, and possibly including changing his assistant

[Silver Fox]

I'd agree with that. Its like he can't help himself and ends up saying something that will be picked up on

Just respond with 'we all need to stick together and if the fans get behind us they can be our 12th man' type platitudes

Something like "We are as frustrated as the fans but we need them to be our 12th or 13th man to help push us forward."?

[Silver Fox]

Silver Fox has been dug out!

At the risk of whiteknighting SF here, those two things are not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.

No you're right, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest someone would be embarrassed by an idiot

Has someone upset you genome?

Cheers for the whiteknight jd, not entirely sure I need it though

[Old Boy Blue]

Hi Seb. No i do not think sticking with him and his tactics will pay off in the long term. I think his tactics will be even less effective in League One which is where he will take us. Yes Club's can be very trigger happy but you couldn't accuse Reading of that he has had more than enough time with no sign of improvement and at the same time alianating the Club's support. The Ferguson example is one in a blue moon (sorry City).
Enjoy the Rugby.

[Denver Royal]

I'd agree with that. Its like he can't help himself and ends up saying something that will be picked up on

Just respond with 'we all need to stick together and if the fans get behind us they can be our 12th man' type platitudes

Something like "We are as frustrated as the fans but we need them to be our 12th or 13th man to help push us forward."?

Nah, that would too easily be construed as him 'blaming the fans for our current plight'.

[genome]

At the risk of whiteknighting SF here, those two things are not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.

No you're right, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest someone would be embarrassed by an idiot

Has someone upset you genome?

Cheers for the whiteknight jd, not entirely sure I need it though

Trying out a new edgy persona.

I'm bored of it already tbh

[Silver Fox]

[Eaststandman]

Is he serious? If the team is so mentally and emotionally fragile, its little wonder they collapse under pressure. I'm not particularly in favour of a "Mad Dog" solution, but there is little doubt that his methods had a positive effect on a lack lustre, under performing squad. He reminded them about how effort could make the team greater than the sum of its parts!

Difficult to disagree with your logic, particularly with the way you framed your reply. However, JS is quoted as saying that opposition fans are "using Reading fans to help them beat us" That's just too convoluted and convenient an excuse for me and hardly credible. It looks like there is a disconnect between the various elements of the club, team, fans and management, but which came first, poor team performances or disgruntled fans do you think?

[Denver Royal]

Is he serious? If the team is so mentally and emotionally fragile, its little wonder they collapse under pressure. I'm not particularly in favour of a "Mad Dog" solution, but there is little doubt that his methods had a positive effect on a lack lustre, under performing squad. He reminded them about how effort could make the team greater than the sum of its parts!

Difficult to disagree with your logic, particularly with the way you framed your reply. However, JS is quoted as saying that opposition fans are "using Reading fans to help them beat us" That's just too convoluted and convenient an excuse for me and hardly credible. It looks like there is a disconnect between the various elements of the club, team, fans and management, but which came first, poor team performances or disgruntled fans do you think?

Keep in mind Stam isn't actually quoted as saying that. That is JLows spin on it, the sensationalist headline, if you will, to get a reaction. Go back and read the interview.

Even you yourself misquote things. You say 'opposition fans'. He never said anything about opposition fans. Do you see how twisted and convoluted things get?

It looks like there is a disconnect between the various elements of the fans

Clearly.

[Green]

Perhaps you could summarise for the clickshy / lazy Denvers.

[Denver Royal]

Perhaps you could summarise for the clickshy / lazy Denvers.

https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/oppon ... says-stam/

[handbags_harris]

What Stam says about the fans from now on is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. He's entitled to his opinion of course, but no matter how well he means the things he says, he no longer has the support of the majority which is all but a position of dead man walking.

But regardless of Stam and the way he presents his arguments (and I've been a vocal critic of many of his managerial facets), one of the biggest issues this club has had over the last few years is its supporters - we all want the same thing, we each have a different opinion on how we should reach the ultimate goal but Jesus, we don't half have a precious "the players must entertain me" mentality. The sooner people realise that we support a club that has far from a divine right to be "entertained" every single match the better. We're not Chelsea, Man Utd, or Liverpool, we don't possess the quality of player to be able to win matches from a base of supporter expectancy. We're Reading, and regardless of the club's outlay on our players those players will still need to battle, scrap and fight as much as play because the opponents we face week in week out are our equals, we are not inherently better than them. If they don't battle, scrap or show 100% on the pitch then fine, express dissatisfaction however you see fit. oxf*rd what Stam thinks, says or does, provided the players show courage and determination and give 100% on the pitch they'll have my backing regardless of whether they're playing well or not. We're far too passive and reactive a fanbase, people from other clubs literally take the piss every oxf*rd week about us, but the point of sitting on your hands and expecting to be entertained has long gone. It's easy to be positive when you're losing just twice in a 46 game season. It's easy to be positive when your team plays high intensity, free flowing football, it's easy to be positive when you win 16 from 18 matches and snatch the league title. We've had a paucity of consistently good results and performances since the last relegation but surely the time has now come for the fans to realise that we need to do what we can to help? Because at the moment, we're not, we're exacerbating a shit situation. We know we're not going to be entertained by the sterile dross that's on display but we can at least try to make a difference and liven up the performances. It's up to us to do what we can to raise the playing level, and if ever there was a time to start taking the bull by the horns it's now.