Back from the ****

[leon]

You trolling?

I agree with him

So do I especially second time. We had three great seasons under him. Despite having to sell our best players.

+million

He understood the club and what it was all about. One of our best ever managers.

[Biscuitman62]

I’ve seen shit Reading teams relegated over the decades I’ve watched Reading.

Shit teams with really no talent.

But despite being shit with really no talent they on the whole, at least tried. Failed. But tried.

This season, this team has been the worst Reading team I have ever seen.

Not because of a lack of talent but because of a lack of effort and a massive lack of character.

Today was a perfect example.

You are a disgrace.

In a nutshell
This. Nailed it.

[Royal Rother]

I go to games now and am BORED, expecting few half-chances, the inevitable cock-up, but the saddest part
is that feeling that too many of the eleven on the pitch, really look like they don't give a toss.

I agree with your comments. But I still believe players give a toss--it's not just about Reading, it's about their own careers, their futures, their reputations. In psychological terms, I think what we're seeing is fatalism, which can look very like not giving a toss. When we keep failing, we expect to fail, and that makes us lackadaisical.

Fatalism? Lackadaisical?

Yes, but I think the root cause is lack of character. And probably team spirit. They just look like a weak bunch mentally. Appointing Gunter as match day captain probably hasn’t helped in that regard. He just does not look / act like a leader.

A team needs leaders. As many as possible but at least 1..... McShane wasn’t having a great season by any stretch of the imagination but I suspect we’d have picked up at least a couple more points if he’d been fit to play during this last couple of months.

[Gunny Fishcake]

I’ve seen shit Reading teams relegated over the decades I’ve watched Reading.

Shit teams with really no talent.

But despite being shit with really no talent they on the whole, at least tried. Failed. But tried.

This season, this team has been the worst Reading team I have ever seen.

Not because of a lack of talent but because of a lack of effort and a massive lack of character.

Today was a perfect example.

You are a disgrace.

This. Nailed it.

Hear hear

[Jagermesiter1871]

Good to see Brian Tevreden, The Dais and Ron had a good night out at the four seasons last night. Plenty to celebrate.

[windermereROYAL]

Good to see Brian Tevreden, The Dais and Ron had a good night out at the four seasons last night. Plenty to celebrate.

Agreed, the world stops when we lose.

[UpThePrem]

The thing that made me really mad, is that I spent the first 70-80 minutes singing and shouting constant positivity. I joined in the songs I can't stand, backed the twat with the megaphone and cheered for the player's I think are an abomination.

And I got rewarded with a total capitulation to a team who lose regularly and had nothing to play for with some of the most pathetically amateurish defending and obvious giving up I've ever seen.

Not only that, but the players then sulk off with not many acknowledging the crowd. And then have a discussion about whether they're even going to bother coming out for their lap. And when they finally do, they look like they've been forced to at gunpoint.

I didn't realise they came out for the lap. We stayed for about 20mins and were told by the senior stewards that they weren't coming out so we left. Was told by another steward outside that they were in with "The Chief Exec" being told they must go out. So maybe you were right. We didn't stay though as our view was if they can't be bothered, why should we.

[facaldaqui]

I go to games now and am BORED, expecting few half-chances, the inevitable cock-up, but the saddest part
is that feeling that too many of the eleven on the pitch, really look like they don't give a toss.

I agree with your comments. But I still believe players give a toss--it's not just about Reading, it's about their own careers, their futures, their reputations. In psychological terms, I think what we're seeing is fatalism, which can look very like not giving a toss. When we keep failing, we expect to fail, and that makes us lackadaisical.

Fatalism? Lackadaisical?

Yes, but I think the root cause is lack of character. And probably team spirit. They just look like a weak bunch mentally. Appointing Gunter as match day captain probably hasn’t helped in that regard. He just does not look / act like a leader.

A team needs leaders. As many as possible but at least 1..... McShane wasn’t having a great season by any stretch of the imagination but I suspect we’d have picked up at least a couple more points if he’d been fit to play during this last couple of months.

Definitely lack of character and lack of grit. Our last promotion team was not ultra talented, but you had great character from the likes of Karacan, Tabb, and Leigertwood, and even Noel Hunt, and then leadership from Roberts.

[Snowflake Royal]

The thing that made me really mad, is that I spent the first 70-80 minutes singing and shouting constant positivity. I joined in the songs I can't stand, backed the twat with the megaphone and cheered for the player's I think are an abomination.

And I got rewarded with a total capitulation to a team who lose regularly and had nothing to play for with some of the most pathetically amateurish defending and obvious giving up I've ever seen.

Not only that, but the players then sulk off with not many acknowledging the crowd. And then have a discussion about whether they're even going to bother coming out for their lap. And when they finally do, they look like they've been forced to at gunpoint.

I didn't realise they came out for the lap. We stayed for about 20mins and were told by the senior stewards that they weren't coming out so we left. Was told by another steward outside that they were in with "The Chief Exec" being told they must go out. So maybe you were right. We didn't stay though as our view was if they can't be bothered, why should we.

We got told they were "discussing" whether to come out and we might be in for a long wait, about half left the South, but the rest were bloody minded about it. The point may have been made that those who stayed past that message were going nowhere.

[Denver Royal]

Definitely lack of character and lack of grit. Our last promotion team was not ultra talented, but you had great character from the likes of Karacan, Tabb, and Leigertwood, and even Noel Hunt, and then leadership from Roberts.

Yep, Jason Roberts was a good signing for us. Obviously a good player, but he brought leadership as well. A solid pro. He was everything this current lot aren't. Imagine him arriving here today and taking a look at this shower. We could use a few more like him.

[Henley Royal 1]

Keep Obita Moore Barrow Bodvarrson get rid of the rest .

That would most certainly result in relegation next season. While change is required it has to be gradual.

Yeah, I'd be interested to know who is going to offer contracts they'll accept to all the other players even if we make them available on a free. And where we'd come up with the money to replace them.

As with Pogrebnyak, Drenthe, etc, we're stuck with loads of the problem players on long expensive contracts.

Any rebuild has to be structured over at least two seasons, with expectations for performance in the league reflecting that. I doubt the owners or management have the stomach for that though and I certainly doubt we'll have one manager that long.

So expect another round of big change with high profile failures no one else wants coming in.

Well get rid of them over two seasons then there S***.

[Snowflake Royal]

Having watched the "highlights" could there have been anything more wrong with our play for their first goal. Lets start off:

Kermorgant loses the ball cheaply
Kermorgant then races back and takes a wild swing at player and ball, failing to achieve anything
Gunter stands off and doesn't chose to see his player inside, outside, get tight or make a challenge
Gunter gets a soft deflection on the cross
Meanwhile, Kelly has stopped playing, letting his man past him to receive the loose ball
Gunter is now out of the game, along with Kelly, Elphick and Ilori
Moore defends space, stepping back to play the Ipswich goalscorer onside
Elphick and Ilori choose to stand at least 3 yards off the Ipswich scorer, not even remotely goalside
Mannone fails to save

[strap]

Surely Arsene Wenger should be on that list? Not that I need to check that it’s 0%!!!!!!!!!

Spot on - the eagle-eyed would have spotted that the original list was only those managers who had managed 5 or more opponents games at the MadStad. Not sure if that was actually the question, so if not apologies, wrong query.

Full list of all managers who have ever managed 5 or more times v RFC runs to 378 different managers, so won't list all. But Arsene Wenger is our nemesis as you correctly point out - 10 games against us and 10 wins! With a goal diff of 11 - 34 = -23



Big Sam may have lost all 5 games at the MadStad, but his "home" record is a bit better W2 D1 L2.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Having watched the "highlights" could there have been anything more wrong with our play for their first goal. Lets start off:

Kermorgant loses the ball cheaply
Kermorgant then races back and takes a wild swing at player and ball, failing to achieve anything
Gunter stands off and doesn't chose to see his player inside, outside, get tight or make a challenge
Gunter gets a soft deflection on the cross
Meanwhile, Kelly has stopped playing, letting his man past him to receive the loose ball
Gunter is now out of the game, along with Kelly, Elphick and Ilori
Moore defends space, stepping back to play the Ipswich goalscorer onside
Elphick and Ilori choose to stand at least 3 yards off the Ipswich scorer, not even remotely goalside
Mannone fails to save

to abridge, embarressing

then it got worse

Moores credits have fallen further

[Millsy]

Watched the replay and I need to know just one thing.

FIRST GOAL: Which of the three defenders was the oxf*rd who was meant to be marking the guy who was completely free to tap in?

I can't make out who it was but I won't be sending him a Christmas card.

[download]

I wonder if there is someway BBCRB or similar could try to get an interview with Steven Reid. Was there something that they were doing last season that we can't see that's not happened this season ?

[Snowflake Royal]

Watched the replay and I need to know just one thing.

FIRST GOAL: Which of the three defenders was the oxf*rd who was meant to be marking the guy who was completely free to tap in?

I can't make out who it was but I won't be sending him a Christmas card.

It should have been Elphick based on where he was IMO.

LCB covers near post, RCB picks up the man in the middle, RB covers far post, RCM picks up lurker / runner

It was an interesting defensive line we took up... I think basically this:

................GK

..................ST............ LCB
..RB
....... .........RCB........................ RW
.......................................................... LB

[ayjaydee]

The second goal summed up Gunters performance- a less than half hearted challenge followed by him ambling back towards the action.
I don’t often leave early but at least I was spared the comedy defending for the last two goals.
My thoughts on the games do season have been more than covered in the previous posts so I thing overpaid underperforming tossers will suffice.

[Nuremberg Royal]

It's hard to argue "small margins" after watching a 0-4 defeat
and yet, that's what it is really about.

Again we missed chances (which needn't be the end of the world)
but BECAUSE we missed chances, when they scored we were behind
(as opposed to, say, back to 3-1)

IMO that one goal was offside, one goal was a freak, and we fell
apart (because we have no leaders, no belief, no mental strength
no aggression) and suddenly we are down 0-4

Was it last week that Ipswich LOST 0-4 at home?

Had this been 1-1 (it could easily have been), had this been 2-2
(it could easily have been), had this been 3-3 (it could easily have been)
we would now be saying, "We did enough, crept over the line" etc
and would be "safe" and beginning to talk about who would leave etc

Individually, almost every one of our players could do well in another Championship side.
A couple of years ago Barrow was ripping Man City a new one (as one example)

What's wrong is the team's imbalances, the lack of a really lethal striker, and, let's be
honest, drastic, dramatic changes of style that have "done in" the heads of most of the team

The hang-on-to-the-ball until the other side surrenders is awful, was awful, and became easy to counter.

Finishing third last year was A FREAK. That's obvious when you look at our horrible defeats like 7-1
and 5-0 etc etc. The 3rd was a high blip, but the last few seasons have been dire as a block
19th-17th (3rd) and this year going into the last game possibly ending up a point short and finishing
22nd.

We have had dodgy Russians, Thais only interested in the land, now mysterious, invisible Chinese owners.

We've had a tough, simplistic, soak up pressure, win on the break long-ball McDermott, Mr Big Watch, Mr Fake Tan,
Clarke, and a brilliant defender who couldn't teach defending, and now Clement, who is another manager not renowned for
having entertaining attacking sides.

Meanwhile we started signing dodgy players, over-priced or over-the-hill, or bad attitudes, or Stam's mates.

Royston Drenthe, Piazon, Hurtado, Fernandez, Ola John, Sa, Pogrebnyak, Wayne Bridge,
and as for Vydra, Grabban, Sharp, how come we made them cr@p and yet they are all high up
in the top-scorers charts this year with Vydra and Grabban 1-2?

Think of Reading as if you might think of, say Sunderland = "a club in a mess", there's "something wrong"
too many managers, too may owners, two many punts, too many desperate, often expensive buys

Only last year's freaky "false 3rd" is in there to suggest there ISN'T a really deep problem in the club

A side that finishes 17th and 19th and somewhere between 18th and 22nd this year is a perfect example
of a club in long-term trouble, structurally wrong, or with hidden money troubles, (or whatever)

Take out the bizarre 3rd and we would be 19th, 17th, 18th (at the absolute best) but this year, even if we escape
relegation in 18th place, we are FAR worse. If we stay up, unless the fundamentals are dealt with, even 15th/16th
will be a challenge next season, and we could easily collapse into (and stay in) the bottom three.

I miss the Coppell days, the McDermott days. I didn't mind the "unsophisticated" high-tempo stuff.

I miss the thundering challenges, the players who would run through a brick wall for the team.

I go to games now and am BORED, expecting few half-chances, the inevitable cock-up, but the saddest part
is that feeling that too many of the eleven on the pitch, really look like they don't give a toss.

Well said sir. Nail,head !

Hi Nuremberg.

Was it you who has been predicting we would drop into
the bottom three last day of the season?

Sadly i was of that opinion but i take absolutely no pride in it.
All very sad currently.

[Theroyalbox]

On a slightly more positive note we only lost 4-0, had we lost 16-0 it could've been very damaging to our goal difference.

You lot always look at the negatives