MATCHWATCH : Ipswich Town (h) sponsored by Orlando Sa

[Singing Defective]

Sitting in the Royal Suite Hospitality - anyone ever sat in there? What's it like?

Only ever done 1871 one, was very impressed and will be doing it again this year for my uncle's 60th.

Recommended. You get to meet an ex player, a current player, and MOM. Posh seats outside. Food ok. Not keen on wines or Heineken/Amstel. Must be a v. old cat...

[Snowflake Royal]

I can't picture a more clear fixture that will end in a loss for us than this one.

It literally has everything going for us apart from not having a fully fit first 11.

-------------------Walker
Yiadom--O'Shea---Moore--Blackett
-------------------Bacuna
--------------Kelly-------Swift
McCleary------------------------Barrow
------------------Baldock

Mannone/Jaakkola?
Gunter
Ilori
Rinomhota
Sims
Meyler?
McNulty

Can't drop Rinhomota after his display on Saturday surely? Would send out a really bad message if the MOTM in the last game is dropped.

Admittedly I haven't finished watching the game. He had a good first half for sure but my thinking was Clement is unlikely to overwhelm Rinomhota by chucking him in at the deep end. I expect he will be gradually introduced.

Of course I could be talking bollocks..

Besides he was only voted MOTM by the excitable fans who love "one of our own". Kelly was statistically the best player on the pitch, Bacuna is invaluable atm and Swift is, simply put, the player most likely to create chances from the centre of the pitch.

Hate to break your illusions on Swift, but he's got 2 assists, no goals and 1.1 key passes a game.
Kelly has 0 assists, 1 goal and 0.8 key passes a game
Whilst crucially Bacuna has 3 goals, 2 assists and 1.4 key passes a game.

So Swift is considerably behind Bacuna and barely ahead of Kelly.

[Hound]

Didn’t Kelly get the assist for Yak on saturday?

Bacuna has been by far the best of our midfielders (who have played regularly) this season. Actually one of our best players full stop

[NewCorkSeth]

Can't drop Rinhomota after his display on Saturday surely? Would send out a really bad message if the MOTM in the last game is dropped.

Admittedly I haven't finished watching the game. He had a good first half for sure but my thinking was Clement is unlikely to overwhelm Rinomhota by chucking him in at the deep end. I expect he will be gradually introduced.

Of course I could be talking bollocks..

Besides he was only voted MOTM by the excitable fans who love "one of our own". Kelly was statistically the best player on the pitch, Bacuna is invaluable atm and Swift is, simply put, the player most likely to create chances from the centre of the pitch.

Hate to break your illusions on Swift, but he's got 2 assists, no goals and 1.1 key passes a game.
Kelly has 0 assists, 1 goal and 0.8 key passes a game
Whilst crucially Bacuna has 3 goals, 2 assists and 1.4 key passes a game.

So Swift is considerably behind Bacuna and barely ahead of Kelly.

To be fair Bacunas stats are affected by his set piece taking. Any corner or wide free kick he took that led to a goal or shot on goal within the same passage of play counts as a key pass.
And I'm not knocking him for that. Bacuna is currently essential to any "success" we will have this season.

The problem I have with you simplifying my analysis down to these raw stats is that it doesn't take into account other players effect on their game.

For instance Swift has reliably enough put in decent through balls and mostly accurate long range passes this season. Kelly has, more often than not, overcooked the shit out of a longer range pass or put way too heavy a touch on a through ball. The reason Swift doesn't have this reflected in the stats you provided is we have had severely poor wing movement for the better part of the season and ver sporadic forward play. Bod likes to move into the channels, Baldock likes to play with his back to goal while remaining central, Meite has grown hugely in the last few games but was postionally all over the place for a while and is guilty of his fair share of heavy touches and McNulty I haven't seen enough of yet.

I don't particularly think I have a Swift "Bubble" as such but perhaps I am guilty of over appreciating him. I just don't think you can conclude anything from the stats you have provided as there are too many variables to use them as evidence that Swift isn't a better option in an attacking team than our young and promising CM off the back of an impressive 60 minutes.

[LUX]

I’ll be there.

[Chuckle Brother]

Biggest thing we could gain from this match is momentum which we haven't had so far this season. A second win on the spin and the confidence will flow back in

Just in time for a 2 week break !

[Mike Hunt]

and Swift is, simply put, the player most likely to create chances from the centre of the pitch.

we scored 3 without swift in the middle, 2 of the goals scored by midfielders...

Kelly and Swift cannot exist well together in the midfield. Rinomhota for me after the game on the weekend.

[JoeyJoeJoeJnrShabadoo]

thanks

[sandman]

When he gets to the centre of the pitch. Swift is very good at little tricks and flicks in his own half but his effectiveness in the opposition's half has been on the wane for quite a while now.

He's the sort of player you want when things are going well like they were in Stam's first season but personally I'm not sure about him in the situation we find ourselves in now.

[NewCorkSeth]

and Swift is, simply put, the player most likely to create chances from the centre of the pitch.

we scored 3 without swift in the middle, 2 of the goals scored by midfielders...

Riiight.

We also scored 3 against Millwall. Swift started and played the whole game.

And we scored 3 goals against Preston. Swift started and played the whole game.

[Snowflake Royal]

Admittedly I haven't finished watching the game. He had a good first half for sure but my thinking was Clement is unlikely to overwhelm Rinomhota by chucking him in at the deep end. I expect he will be gradually introduced.

Of course I could be talking bollocks..

Besides he was only voted MOTM by the excitable fans who love "one of our own". Kelly was statistically the best player on the pitch, Bacuna is invaluable atm and Swift is, simply put, the player most likely to create chances from the centre of the pitch.

Hate to break your illusions on Swift, but he's got 2 assists, no goals and 1.1 key passes a game.
Kelly has 0 assists, 1 goal and 0.8 key passes a game
Whilst crucially Bacuna has 3 goals, 2 assists and 1.4 key passes a game.

So Swift is considerably behind Bacuna and barely ahead of Kelly.

To be fair Bacunas stats are affected by his set piece taking. Any corner or wide free kick he took that led to a goal or shot on goal within the same passage of play counts as a key pass.
And I'm not knocking him for that. Bacuna is currently essential to any "success" we will have this season.

The problem I have with you simplifying my analysis down to these raw stats is that it doesn't take into account other players effect on their game.

For instance Swift has reliably enough put in decent through balls and mostly accurate long range passes this season. Kelly has, more often than not, overcooked the shit out of a longer range pass or put way too heavy a touch on a through ball. The reason Swift doesn't have this reflected in the stats you provided is we have had severely poor wing movement for the better part of the season and ver sporadic forward play. Bod likes to move into the channels, Baldock likes to play with his back to goal while remaining central, Meite has grown hugely in the last few games but was postionally all over the place for a while and is guilty of his fair share of heavy touches and McNulty I haven't seen enough of yet.

I don't particularly think I have a Swift "Bubble" as such but perhaps I am guilty of over appreciating him. I just don't think you can conclude anything from the stats you have provided as there are too many variables to use them as evidence that Swift isn't a better option in an attacking team than our young and promising CM off the back of an impressive 60 minutes.

I used the stats because you specifically referred to Kelly as the statically the best player against Brizzle, so you used stats to support a view. As for Bacuna and set pieces being an advantage... I'd point out Swift takes set pieces too.

You want to talk about key long passes? Kelly and Swift both put in 0.2 a game (Bacuna 0.6). You want to talk about successful long passes? Kelly puts in 3.3 a game to Swift's 1.8 (Bacuna 2.. Percentage accurate long passes? Kelly 49%, Swift 67% (Bacuna 52%), so yes, Swift gets it right more often, but Kelly gets more right total.

If Swift's stats aren't good because our wing and forward play have been poor, he's not our best chance of creating through the middle. Because he has to rely on other people to change.

There's a reason Kelly and Bacuna have played more than Swift and it's because Bacuna is more effective all round and whilst Kelly is a little less effective in attack, he's more effective defensively. Then you simply have the situation that Swift and Kelly together is proven time and again to be too lightweight.

This is off subject but defensively:

Successful tackles
Kelly 1.6
Bacuna 1.3
Swift 0.9

% Tackles successful
Bacuna 72%
Kelly 67%
Swift 53%

Dribbled Passed
Bacuna 0.6
Kelly 0.8 = Swift 0.8

Interceptions
Kelly 1.1
Swift 1.0
Bacuna 0.7

Clearances
Bacuna 1.1
Kelly 0.8
Swift 0.6

Blocked shots
Swift 0.1 = Bacuna 0.1
Kelly 0

Blocked crosses
Swift 0.3
Kelly 0.1
Bacuna 0

Blocked passes
Kelly 0.7 = Swift 0.7
Bacuna 0.6

Unsuccessful touches
Kelly 0.6
Bacuna 1
Swift 1.8

Dispossesed
Kelly 0.6
Swift 0.9
Bacuna 1.2

It's always nice when you develop a point of view from watching games and stats actually back it up. Swift offers less defensively than the other two, and offers less offensively than Bacuna so far, and not a lot more than Kelly. But he sure does play pretty.


Anyway, apols for the derail.

I shall be hoping to see Bacuna, Kelly and Rinomhota again in the absence of Ezatolahi.

[NewCorkSeth]

Hate to break your illusions on Swift, but he's got 2 assists, no goals and 1.1 key passes a game.
Kelly has 0 assists, 1 goal and 0.8 key passes a game
Whilst crucially Bacuna has 3 goals, 2 assists and 1.4 key passes a game.

So Swift is considerably behind Bacuna and barely ahead of Kelly.

To be fair Bacunas stats are affected by his set piece taking. Any corner or wide free kick he took that led to a goal or shot on goal within the same passage of play counts as a key pass.
And I'm not knocking him for that. Bacuna is currently essential to any "success" we will have this season.

The problem I have with you simplifying my analysis down to these raw stats is that it doesn't take into account other players effect on their game.

For instance Swift has reliably enough put in decent through balls and mostly accurate long range passes this season. Kelly has, more often than not, overcooked the shit out of a longer range pass or put way too heavy a touch on a through ball. The reason Swift doesn't have this reflected in the stats you provided is we have had severely poor wing movement for the better part of the season and ver sporadic forward play. Bod likes to move into the channels, Baldock likes to play with his back to goal while remaining central, Meite has grown hugely in the last few games but was postionally all over the place for a while and is guilty of his fair share of heavy touches and McNulty I haven't seen enough of yet.

I don't particularly think I have a Swift "Bubble" as such but perhaps I am guilty of over appreciating him. I just don't think you can conclude anything from the stats you have provided as there are too many variables to use them as evidence that Swift isn't a better option in an attacking team than our young and promising CM off the back of an impressive 60 minutes.

I used the stats because you specifically referred to Kelly as the statically the best player against Brizzle, so you used stats to support a view. As for Bacuna and set pieces being an advantage... I'd point out Swift takes set pieces too.

You want to talk about key long passes? Kelly and Swift both put in 0.2 a game (Bacuna 0.6). You want to talk about successful long passes? Kelly puts in 3.3 a game to Swift's 1.8 (Bacuna 2.. Percentage accurate long passes? Kelly 49%, Swift 67% (Bacuna 52%), so yes, Swift gets it right more often, but Kelly gets more right total.

If Swift's stats aren't good because our wing and forward play have been poor, he's not our best chance of creating through the middle. Because he has to rely on other people to change.

There's a reason Kelly and Bacuna have played more than Swift and it's because Bacuna is more effective all round and whilst Kelly is a little less effective in attack, he's more effective defensively. Then you simply have the situation that Swift and Kelly together is proven time and again to be too lightweight.

It's always nice when you develop a point of view from watching games and stats actually back it up. Swift offers less defensively than the other two, and offers less offensively than Bacuna so far, and not a lot more than Kelly. But he sure does play pretty.

I shall be hoping to see Bacuna, Kelly and Rinomhota again in the absence of Ezatolahi.

Swift in general takes direct free kicks, rarely takes corners and can't be compared to Bacuna in terms of chance creation from set pieces. The difference in numbers of set pieces they have taken this season is so different it's not worth bringing up.

The key long passes section of your comment backs up what I was (trying to at least) saying. Kelly may hit more long range passes in terms of overall numbers but he is often innacurate as I said above. Swift is great at long range passes and not only does he have a pretty great percentage he also often chooses the right pass. That's another thing we don't get to see in the stats. I could argue that the reason he attempts less passes than Kelly is he is more selective in when to make them. I think overall Swift has much better judgement than Kelly.

And while we are on those stats you have to admit you have been a little bit selective there. You neglected to mention he has the highest successful dribbles in our squad (level with Yiadom) which should be taken into account when considering a players attacking value.

I hope you don't mind but I deleted the defensive bit. Mostly as a space saver so this thread is completely taken up by our debate but also because I would never argue Swift makes the same contribution as Kelly. I have argued in another thread that this is due to Swift playing a far different role than Kelly does where he is asked to press but not overcoming himself as he has (imo) been asked to keep himself available for the recycling of possession. I think you commented on that? It was a few weeks ago.

I think it's harsh to say he offers FAR less than Bacuna and only a little more than Kelly in offensive terms. The difference between Kelly and Swift and Swift and Bacuna are almost equal distance (although I'm sure Bacuna should have more assists than that?)

But as I said. I'm happy to see Rinomhota keep his place but would prefer to see Swift play.

[Old Man Andrews]

Meite sounds very doubtful for this one.

Loader has trained with the 1st team all week, looks like we might get a first start for him this Saturday which I am well in favour of.

[NewCorkSeth]

Meite sounds very doubtful for this one.

Loader has trained with the 1st team all week, looks like we might get a first start for him this Saturday which I am well in favour of.

Debut hat trick guaranteed.

[Snowball]

Meite sounds very doubtful for this one.

Loader has trained with the 1st team all week, looks like we might get a first start for him this Saturday which I am well in favour of.

Debut hat trick guaranteed.

What has happened to McNulty? Whenever I've seen him he's looked lively
and he's a natural goal-scorer.

At other clubs they took of him "not being an athlete" (ie he looks chubby)

Some people are just that build... Franny Lee, Ken Wagstaffe.

I'm wondering whether Clement has said, "Get seven pounds off" and he can't/won't

[Old Man Andrews]

Meite sounds very doubtful for this one.

Loader has trained with the 1st team all week, looks like we might get a first start for him this Saturday which I am well in favour of.

Debut hat trick guaranteed.

What has happened to McNulty? Whenever I've seen him he's looked lively
and he's a natural goal-scorer.

At other clubs they took of him "not being an athlete" (ie he looks chubby)

Some people are just that build... Franny Lee, Ken Wagstaffe.

I'm wondering whether Clement has said, "Get seven pounds off" and he can't/won't

He's looked in fairly decent shape whenever I've seen him. Thought he was lively in the first half up at WBA too, Clement just can't fancy him at all. Can see him heading out to League 1 on loan in Jan.

[NewCorkSeth]

Debut hat trick guaranteed.

What has happened to McNulty? Whenever I've seen him he's looked lively
and he's a natural goal-scorer.

At other clubs they took of him "not being an athlete" (ie he looks chubby)

Some people are just that build... Franny Lee, Ken Wagstaffe.

I'm wondering whether Clement has said, "Get seven pounds off" and he can't/won't

He's looked in fairly decent shape whenever I've seen him. Thought he was lively in the first half up at WBA too, Clement just can't fancy him at all. Can see him heading out to League 1 on loan in Jan.

He just seems like he's not suited to a lone striker role. He has shown signs of being decent enough tbf.

[Snowball]

I think Baldock-McNulty as a pair could be very good

True we can play lumps up front, but we haven't had a PARTNERSHIP
for quite a while now - nothing remotely like, say, Long-Hunt

and they weren't exactly giants

[Hound]

don't think Loader will jump ahead of the front 3 of McCleary, Baldock and Barrow. McNulty and him on the bench I imagine

[Old Man Andrews]

don't think Loader will jump ahead of the front 3 of McCleary, Baldock and Barrow. McNulty and him on the bench I imagine

Barrow on the right, Loader as striker and Baldock on the left for me. I don't recall Loader has ever trained with the 1st team all week prior to a game before and Clement has made a point out of mentioning it too. Really think he might get his start this Saturday.