Bowen v. Paunović

[Ascotexgunner]

Why Hound why?

Why are you even asking? Bowen should have been fired when the final whistle was blown against Swansea.
Utter disgrace and shambles at the end of the season. Pleased he didn't remain director of football as well. To me he was part of our problem and failures. We have started this season with new blood in charge and next season new blood on the pitch hopefully.

[Hound]

Why Hound why?

Why are you even asking? Bowen should have been fired when the final whistle was blown against Swansea.
Utter disgrace and shambles at the end of the season. Pleased he didn't remain director of football as well. To me he was part of our problem and failures. We have started this season with new blood in charge and next season new blood on the pitch hopefully.

Umm what am I asking?

[Zip]

I don’t think people are “discounting” or dismissing the first 8 games at all.

Virtually every football site will have a current form table for 6, 8,12 or 18 games

and we are a team currently in a deserved 7th place for TWO reasons combined, our “brilliant” 8-game opener PLUS the run of 44 points in 33 games afterwards

IMO it is not only reasonable but NORMAL to weight more-recent events more than older ones

HULL last season were excellent until they sold their best players, but that relegated them.

It is abundantly clear that our opening 8 games were anomalous and (clearly) not predictive of final position - like a front-running horse that fades in the last 1-2 furlongs.

That doesn’t mean we didn’t deserve those points, or they “don’t count” any more than we can ignore the four consecutive defeats

Yep. Sums things up nicely for me. There has been progress but I don’t think it’s as impressive as has been suggested. Too many very poor performances mixed in with some hugely enjoyable games. I hope Pauno gets a chance next season. I like the man. He has certainly brought on some of our Academy boys although has been reluctant to give others a chance particularly Tetek.

Overall so much promise but not the achievement to match. Such a shame because we have players that will grace the top flight. I hope they get to do so with us.

[Stranded]

The key difference is, this squad underperformed last season, this year it is probably performing to about it's level. So the key next year, is either find a way for the squad to over-perform (if we don't go up), or improve the squad through recruitment to make the base level higher.

[Zip]

The key difference is, this squad underperformed last season, this year it is probably performing to about it's level. So the key next year, is either find a way for the squad to over-perform (if we don't go up), or improve the squad through recruitment to make the base level higher.

It’s going to be harder next season. We could be hit with a points deduction. No Olise. No Richards. Probably no money to spend in the transfer window,
Pauno has a track record getting results with young players. In the circs he is the right man to take the club forward as our Academy graduates are going to be important again.

[Zip]

Why Hound why?

Why are you even asking? Bowen should have been fired when the final whistle was blown against Swansea.
Utter disgrace and shambles at the end of the season. Pleased he didn't remain director of football as well. To me he was part of our problem and failures. We have started this season with new blood in charge and next season new blood on the pitch hopefully.

Bowen did a perfectly good job. His overall record was ok. He also brought Laurent to the club.

[elrey]

There are plenty of good reasons for taking out the first 8 games. Firstly because some managers manage to have a boost because nobody knows what they're facing. After a few games they figure out the tactics and therefore it's easier to plan what you're facing.

Secondly because players might be out to prove themselves. The manager's motivational tactics might have a short term impact. We've seen plenty of managers that could do this. Look at Mourinho, who seems to use motivational tactics that wear down his players to the point after about 2 seasons that they can't take it any more and his teams can't play well any more.

A good manager is a consistent manager.

Paunović seems to be an up down guy.

8 games, 7 wins and a draw.
Then lose 4
Then not lose in 4
then 4 with one win and three loses
then no loses for 6
then one win and four loses in 5
then three wins and a draw in 4
then the last 5 games with one win.

Up and down, up and down. Not very consistent.

Maybe Bowen was the same. Maybe he had less to work with.

Then again the whole point of football is entertainment and I'd assume you're entertained by such a question.

[Sanguine]

There has been progress but I don’t think it’s as impressive as has been suggested.

This is just madness. We've been relegation candidates since the Huddersfield play-off final, and now we go into the final weeks of the season with a small chance to go up (and we're a couple of Lucas Joao penalty misses from being right there in the mix).

[Once upon a time .]

It’s a no contest ! Bowen gave the impression of being a dour uninspiring character , and his team played that way . Paunovic has achieved better results with virtually the same players, with also some excitement. How can there be a debate ?
BUT ! Yes there is a BUT . My disappointment with Paunovic is that he has done nothing to improve our painful and self destructive , playing the ball out from the back . We all know that we have no players with threatening pace , so the way to compensate for this is to move the ball quickly . We seldom do this . To do this we must have players in front of the ball in space to receive it . But our defenders when trying to play it out , dwell on the ball and make negative sideways and backward passes so much that forwards are marked and passing opportunities are gone . Also you can see that the defenders space is being reduced as opposing forwards close them down ———— so it goes back to the GK . What have we achieved ——— Nothing ! Often, as in the Watford game , it ends with us losing possession in our own third and the opposition scoring !
Either learn to play out from the back properly or cut it out !

[Maneki Neko]

Okay, season is basically over, Reading have cemented their place just below the play offs. Better than last season's 14th place.

But the question here is, should Bowen have been fired? Have Reading done better under Paunović than Bowen?

Bowen had 35 league games, won 13 of those, drew 9 for 48 points. Paunović would have had 56 points in 35 games at the rate he's going.

Though take out the first 8 games of the season and 22 points there, and you have Paunović on 44 points from 33 games.

Would Bowen have gone on with a better squad to get more points than this? Doesn't seem like there's been much progress other than a flurry at the beginning of the season.

seems a litle mental to say- but if you take out the bits of the season when we were really good, it shows that we actually werent very good
i liked bowen and though he was getting somewhere, but you cant deny things improved massively when pauno came in

[Millsy]

BUT ! Yes there is a BUT . My disappointment with Paunovic is that he has done nothing to improve our painful and self destructive , playing the ball out from the back .

I like many was a big critic of this and started a thread about it earlier this season. In that thread I learned a lot and changed my view. I understand that while it has its flaws and we will definitely get caught out by high press teams, the design is deliberate so we stretch the opposition and open up space to attack. We may not have super pacey players like Barrow anymore but overall it has certainly worked i.e. the benefits have outweighed the risks, as evidenced by our general performance this season.

it's a feature, not a flaw.

[Once upon a time .]

It’s a feature when done well . Playing out from the back is not the problem , it’s the way we do it that creates trouble . If you recall , I said do it better . I believe the opposition love the way we do it .

[Millsy]

It’s a feature when done well . Playing out from the back is not the problem , it’s the way we do it that creates trouble . If you recall , I said do it better . I believe the opposition love the way we do it .

Yeah I hear you, maybe it can be done better than it is. Clearly whatever he's doing at the moment is working to some degree, and clearly it's working better than when previous managers did it because we're playing better. So with regard to the Bowen v Pauno 'debate' Pauno is doing something better. But yeah , can it be done better than we are doing it with the players with have? Who knows. If ex-pro footballers, a professional manager and a team of professional coaches don't think they can then perhaps they're just doing the best with the players they have. But who knows, maybe your point is valid and they should get a bit more creative with it. It certainly irritates me, but now I just see it as passing it around until a space opens up and then biting.

[Hound]

It’s a feature when done well . Playing out from the back is not the problem , it’s the way we do it that creates trouble . If you recall , I said do it better . I believe the opposition love the way we do it .

Yeah I hear you, maybe it can be done better than it is. Clearly whatever he's doing at the moment is working to some degree, and clearly it's working better than when previous managers did it because we're playing better. So with regard to the Bowen v Pauno 'debate' Pauno is doing something better. But yeah , can it be done better than we are doing it with the players with have? Who knows. If ex-pro footballers, a professional manager and a team of professional coaches don't think they can then perhaps they're just doing the best with the players they have. But who knows, maybe your point is valid and they should get a bit more creative with it. It certainly irritates me, but now I just see it as passing it around until a space opens up and then biting.

Do we actually this anyway? Granted we did early season, barely see us pass around the back at all nowadays - certainly not in a way that regularly causes us issues

Obvs the odd knock back to the keeper or the occasional pass out from a GK but nothing compared to the likes of Brentford

[Snowflake Royal]

It’s a feature when done well . Playing out from the back is not the problem , it’s the way we do it that creates trouble . If you recall , I said do it better . I believe the opposition love the way we do it .

Yeah I hear you, maybe it can be done better than it is. Clearly whatever he's doing at the moment is working to some degree, and clearly it's working better than when previous managers did it because we're playing better. So with regard to the Bowen v Pauno 'debate' Pauno is doing something better. But yeah , can it be done better than we are doing it with the players with have? Who knows. If ex-pro footballers, a professional manager and a team of professional coaches don't think they can then perhaps they're just doing the best with the players they have. But who knows, maybe your point is valid and they should get a bit more creative with it. It certainly irritates me, but now I just see it as passing it around until a space opens up and then biting.

Do we actually this anyway? Granted we did early season, barely see us pass around the back at all nowadays - certainly not in a way that regularly causes us issues

Obvs the odd knock back to the keeper or the occasional pass out from a GK but nothing compared to the likes of Brentford

We're mostly doing it right now.

We pick and choose our time. Sometimes we do it to retain possession and have a recovery period. Sometimes we do it to draw out the press.

It's much rarer we do it under stupid pressure and we mix it up nicely with some longer balls too.

[Sutekh]

Yeah I hear you, maybe it can be done better than it is. Clearly whatever he's doing at the moment is working to some degree, and clearly it's working better than when previous managers did it because we're playing better. So with regard to the Bowen v Pauno 'debate' Pauno is doing something better. But yeah , can it be done better than we are doing it with the players with have? Who knows. If ex-pro footballers, a professional manager and a team of professional coaches don't think they can then perhaps they're just doing the best with the players they have. But who knows, maybe your point is valid and they should get a bit more creative with it. It certainly irritates me, but now I just see it as passing it around until a space opens up and then biting.

Do we actually this anyway? Granted we did early season, barely see us pass around the back at all nowadays - certainly not in a way that regularly causes us issues

Obvs the odd knock back to the keeper or the occasional pass out from a GK but nothing compared to the likes of Brentford

We're mostly doing it right now.

We pick and choose our time. Sometimes we do it to retain possession and have a recovery period. Sometimes we do it to draw out the press.

It's much rarer we do it under stupid pressure and we mix it up nicely with some longer balls too.

Football played by Reading has been largely very tedious and, at best, not very good since Brian went. Since then Reading have decided to lumber themselves with a succession of ball playing managers who all seem to want to play patient snail’s pace possession cr@pola. Even the one good season under Stam the football was fairly turgid and “safe” but was bearable as the club was getting results. VP at least does appear to acknowledge that a “long/direct ball” is a valid option but, as per the above, it’s generally still too slow and too ponderous and passing just for the sake of passing rather than playing with a higher tempo and getting the ball forward quicker.

[Maneki Neko]

plenty of people hated the style of football under brian tbf

[Snowflake Royal]

I don't think that's entirely fair or accurate.

McDermott's football was at times tediously agricultural. Watching Jem hook yet another ball long and blind over his shoulder for someone to chase down a channel wasn't my idea of eye watering football.

Both Clement and Bowen reigned in a lot of the keep ball and used longer passing. Stam and Rodgers (pre dating BMcD) were by far the worst advocates of tedious football. With Gomes not far behind.

Pauno's mostly got them doing it well and at a reasonable quality.

[Maneki Neko]

id rather watch brians football than anyone elses up until now, and even then im undecided about pauno. its better than the other tiptappers, but its hard to compare with other styles

[Hound]

no complaints with the football under Pauno. More progressive than Bowen and Clement, and less tippy tappy than Stam and Gomes

I think the balance is right. Its easy on the eye imo and we mix going long and short when playing well. Miss Swift's passing range to make it work perfectly.

We are a bit hesitant in the final 3rd - not sure if thats something thats prescribed or just a bit of lack of confidence/quality from the front men