Dodgy agents, dodgy deals, the sorry tale continues

[Snowflake Royal]

You’re an idiot.

Leon, lay off. You’re a half wit. If you have nothing productive to say, don’t say anything.
As for the message by TGP, I agree. Ince is a little before my time, but he’s respected by many people. Let’s get behind him. C’mon Urzzzzzz.

And you are?

I'm not the one trying to brush all this shit under the carpet. "Business is business"

Doesn’t matter who he is leon. That's the response of the condescending and desperate. I think OMA uses it quite a lot, which tells you all you need to know about it.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

The morals to a billionaire are probably much different to a normal persons.

I doubt the club has been bought to do money laundering. It is a public / in the spot light / hugely expensive venture, quite possibly the worst scenario for such activity. A multi billionaire wouldn't be so stupid with his money. If he was money laundering he might as well wash his money in the toilet as he wont be getting the money back. I would say the venture is a legitimate way of getting his money into the UK as I believe its not easy to move money out of China.

[PieEater]

Not sure how this can be dismissed as ""Business is business".

To me it's quite simple. If the owners purchased the club to acheive make money or obtain prestige through the team's success on the pitchthen good luck to them, but if their prime motivation is using the club as a vehicle to make money through dodgy deals or money laundering, and what happens on the pitch is irrelevant to that aim - then tha's abhorrent and negates the whole purpose of the football club.

I'm aware that the underlying problems are twofold - company law allows a football club to be bought or sold as if it was any other kind of business; and the EFL, for all their good intentions, don't have the staff, resources or money to allow them to do a proper job of governing the clubs under their jurisdiction.

But it's unfortunately so very depressing and so very predicatable and makes me fear for the long-term existence of this football club.

How does money laundering work with a football club? I understand how you can asset strip (Thais) , but shelling out millions to run a club or buy players doesn't seem to be a good way to legitimise dodgy cash. Money laundering needs to inflate income not losses.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The morals to a billionaire are probably much different to a normal persons.

I doubt the club has been bought to do money laundering. It is a public / in the spot light / hugely expensive venture, quite possibly the worst scenario for such activity. A multi billionaire wouldn't be so stupid with his money. If he was money laundering he might as well wash his money in the toilet as he wont be getting the money back. I would say the venture is a legitimate way of getting his money into the UK as I believe its not easy to move money out of China.

Not when it's illegal to money launder in this country though, I can imagine the morals would be pretty big for anyone in that case, billionaire or not, but it wouldn't massively surprise me with these owners anyway.

It depends on your bank ultimately but no it's not that easy to move money out of China, or indeed transfer money from China to the UK and vice versa.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

I stand by my point. Buying a football club to do illegal things with it seems counter productive as you have many things pointing at you which you probably want to avoid at all costs to do the dirty deeds. So much scrutiny and outside people looking in, I would imagine to be the worst way of running illegal activities. They all have opinions and want to look inside.
Fans
Regulators - fit for purpose or not, they still need access to accounts.
World wide media - written and TV.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I stand by my point. Buying a football club to do illegal things with it seems counter productive as you have many things pointing at you which you probably want to avoid at all costs to do the dirty deeds. So much scrutiny and outside people looking in, I would imagine to be the worst way of running illegal activities. They all have opinions and want to look inside.
Fans
Regulators - fit for purpose or not, they still need access to accounts.
World wide media - written and TV.

Well they'd fail audits as well if they were really doing things illegal. It depends on the context of the term "dodgy". Everyone just assumes the club is doing wrong because of that. It might be that the club have been involved in unorthodox deals before and suddenly that becomes a different talking point then.

[Dirk Gently]

Not sure how this can be dismissed as ""Business is business".

To me it's quite simple. If the owners purchased the club to acheive make money or obtain prestige through the team's success on the pitchthen good luck to them, but if their prime motivation is using the club as a vehicle to make money through dodgy deals or money laundering, and what happens on the pitch is irrelevant to that aim - then tha's abhorrent and negates the whole purpose of the football club.

I'm aware that the underlying problems are twofold - company law allows a football club to be bought or sold as if it was any other kind of business; and the EFL, for all their good intentions, don't have the staff, resources or money to allow them to do a proper job of governing the clubs under their jurisdiction.

But it's unfortunately so very depressing and so very predicatable and makes me fear for the long-term existence of this football club.

How does money laundering work with a football club? I understand how you can asset strip (Thais) , but shelling out millions to run a club or buy players doesn't seem to be a good way to legitimise dodgy cash. Money laundering needs to inflate income not losses.

When you're money laundering you have to take a big loss (on paper) to make money clean, because dirty money is effectively worthless no matter what its nominal worth is.

Not sure exactly what the acceptable ratio is, but I know it's at least a 75% loss - so if you can bring £100 of dirty money and turn it into £25 or more of clean and usable money that's a good result.

[Franconian Royal]

You’re an idiot.

Leon, lay off. You’re a half wit. If you have nothing productive to say, don’t say anything.
As for the message by TGP, I agree. Ince is a little before my time, but he’s respected by many people. Let’s get behind him. C’mon Urzzzzzz.

And you are?

I'm not the one trying to brush all this shit under the carpet. "Business is business"

Franconian Royal, Frankie, if you wish. Nor was I, but recently most of your posts have only been negative, so as I said, I’d you’ve got nothing productive to say, don’t say it

[Franconian Royal]

Leon, lay off. You’re a half wit. If you have nothing productive to say, don’t say anything.
As for the message by TGP, I agree. Ince is a little before my time, but he’s respected by many people. Let’s get behind him. C’mon Urzzzzzz.

And you are?

I'm not the one trying to brush all this shit under the carpet. "Business is business"

Doesn’t matter who he is leon. That's the response of the condescending and desperate. I think OMA uses it quite a lot, which tells you all you need to know about it.

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

[PieEater]

Not sure how this can be dismissed as ""Business is business".

To me it's quite simple. If the owners purchased the club to acheive make money or obtain prestige through the team's success on the pitchthen good luck to them, but if their prime motivation is using the club as a vehicle to make money through dodgy deals or money laundering, and what happens on the pitch is irrelevant to that aim - then tha's abhorrent and negates the whole purpose of the football club.

I'm aware that the underlying problems are twofold - company law allows a football club to be bought or sold as if it was any other kind of business; and the EFL, for all their good intentions, don't have the staff, resources or money to allow them to do a proper job of governing the clubs under their jurisdiction.

But it's unfortunately so very depressing and so very predicatable and makes me fear for the long-term existence of this football club.

How does money laundering work with a football club? I understand how you can asset strip (Thais) , but shelling out millions to run a club or buy players doesn't seem to be a good way to legitimise dodgy cash. Money laundering needs to inflate income not losses.

When you're money laundering you have to take a big loss (on paper) to make money clean, because dirty money is effectively worthless no matter what its nominal worth is.

Not sure exactly what the acceptable ratio is, but I know it's at least a 75% loss - so if you can bring £100 of dirty money and turn it into £25 or more of clean and usable money that's a good result.

Still not getting it.

Paying players, agents and others loads of (dirty) money doesn't help you clean any money.

You'd need to pay yourself to gain from losses. Or at least pay for a fictitious loss for yourself that isn't real. eg some charge to bring in the money. Or get them to pay back some of the money.

[Millsy]

Even if there is some sort of laundering going on, it doesn't mean what happens on the pitch is irrelevant to them. Clearly they want success too or why bother splashing millions on Joao?Puscas et al even if they've made some crap decisions. It's possible to launder and to want success for the club.

[leon]

I don't think they'd use a Football club as a vehicle to launder money. As someone has said - it's just too high profile.

Converting money into physical asset yes. But I do think that the club is being milked by the likes of Joorabchian for personal gain at the expense of the club. The decision making at the top is wayward to say the least and we seemingly have no strategic direction. There is zero relationship with the fans. The 150 Anniversary was a joke and demonstrated how little the owners or anyone in a position of decision making understands this club or football at all.

I really couldn't give a shit if this is seen as negative. It is what it is.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

It has been clear for a long time the Kia is sucking the life out of this club and lining his pockets handsomely in the meantime. I dont think any dodgy deals are happening just very eye brow raising decisions where the only winner. Its not exactly shady when its so bloody obvious whats happening - the man advising the owner on who to bring in all happen to be on his own books, go figure.

[leon]

It has been clear for a long time the Kia is sucking the life out of this club and lining his pockets handsomely in the meantime. I dont think any dodgy deals are happening just very eye brow raising decisions where the only winner. Its not exactly shady when its so bloody obvious whats happening - the man advising the owner on who to bring in all happen to be on his own books, go figure.

Exactly.

[PATRIQT]

I stand by my point. Buying a football club to do illegal things with it seems counter productive as you have many things pointing at you which you probably want to avoid at all costs to do the dirty deeds. So much scrutiny and outside people looking in, I would imagine to be the worst way of running illegal activities. They all have opinions and want to look inside.
Fans
Regulators - fit for purpose or not, they still need access to accounts.
World wide media - written and TV.

You live in a very different world. Money laundering is rife in sports, and anywhere where large sums of money are moved around. Absolutely RFC could be used as a vehicle for laundering.

[Elm Park Kid]

I read the article but not all the post.

Lets remember a key fact of all this: The various owners of Reading FC have lost tens, if not hundreds of millions of pounds in the previous 10 years. Regardless of all the accusations about this and that - no one can argue that they have benefited from this process. The losses are just too huge, even if (IF) they were being paid back-handers for allowing things to happen, there is no way it would make up for what they are losing. So, it's highly unlikely that this is all some huge criminal conspiracy - it's not like they performed a leverage buyout and then asset stripped the club. They have spent their own money on everything.

So, the other likelihood is that the owners have been exploited by the various individuals and companies listed in the article - some of whom may have helped the club with transfers and FFP situations in order to financially benefit themselves. But then others may argue that the club has simply had to get it's hands dirty to stay ahead of the rampant shady practices that are reported to be taking place in English football on a daily basis.

The claims about the manager role are probably the worse - that we deliberately brought in unsuitable candidates purely because they could be manipulated by those involved. But then you have to ask why the owners would do this - are they really so naive that they were willing to trade in decent management for access to the player markets and contacts that the 'agents' could offer?

[Dixie Norm]

Converting money into physical asset yes. But I do think that the club is being milked by the likes of Joorabchian for personal gain at the expense of the club. The decision making at the top is wayward to say the least and we seemingly have no strategic direction. There is zero relationship with the fans. The 150 Anniversary was a joke and demonstrated how little the owners or anyone in a position of decision making understands this club or football at all.

Yep. You only need to look at some of the strange deals that have happened (both in to and out of the club). The latest being the Rafael and Puscas ones. There was a unanimous feeling on this board that we'd never be able to offload them due to their wages. Then out of nowhere they're both sent packing (in Puscas' case we could even get £5m for a striker thats scored about 1 goal in 30 starts! Its just bewildering.

[Snowflake Royal]

And you are?

I'm not the one trying to brush all this shit under the carpet. "Business is business"

Doesn’t matter who he is leon. That's the response of the condescending and desperate. I think OMA uses it quite a lot, which tells you all you need to know about it.

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

[leon]

Doesn’t matter who he is leon. That's the response of the condescending and desperate. I think OMA uses it quite a lot, which tells you all you need to know about it.

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

Some random has a go at me I’m entitled to ask them who they are. I don’t permission from you.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

Some random has a go at me I’m entitled to ask them who they are. I don’t permission from you.

I don’t need your permission to tell you I think you're being a prick either.

Glad we've sorted that out.