BFTG - Cardiff

[URZZZZ]

Whilst a defeat is disappointing, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t entirely matter. Not finishing anywhere other than 21st or the relegation zone and it’s another game gone with the same distance to 22nd

It is a team who have thrown away lead after lead this season so it isn’t entirely surprising but the remit at this stage is just about staying up and yesterday further increased the chances

[South Coast Royal]

Hoilett was excellent on the right against Stoke. Back on the left to accommodate Ince spelled trouble from the start. He's just not the same player.

TMac isn't a fullback. Rahman must really be pissing about in training for Ince not to have brought him back.

I reckon we need 3 more points to be safe - not sure where they're coming from without Swift

Remember when a left footed player played on the left wing & a right footer played on the right? I miss those days. Give me a player who can beat his man & either cross effectively or cut back from the byline, over 1 who occasionally cuts back & scores any day of the week. Why did it need to change?!

Is it because it works so well for Liverpool and City and others (with inferior players) try to copy?
I have never liked it as ,like you, I like to see the wide man go outside and the cross to be away from the keeper.

Anyway, as for yesterday, a stroll in the sun and then play statues when the other side attack-very disappointing.

Watched their 27 Colwill with interest as he has played for the full Welsh side-very impressed and he reminded me very much of Darren Anderton (when fit enough to play of course).
Destined for better things IMHO.

Now we have to hope for that 1 win that should keep us up but still worried after yesterday's second half showing and our dire goal difference when compared to Derby.
Maybe 1 point will be enough as it is hard to believe that Derby will do better than 3 wins.

[Zip]

Whilst a defeat is disappointing, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t entirely matter. Not finishing anywhere other than 21st or the relegation zone and it’s another game gone with the same distance to 22nd

It is a team who have thrown away lead after lead this season so it isn’t entirely surprising but the remit at this stage is just about staying up and yesterday further increased the chances

Yes and no. Yes in that it’s one game less and the gap hasn’t been closed. No in that we had much the easier game yesterday and didn’t make it count. Others have easier games when we have harder fixtures. We have to hope they don’t take advantage.

[Snowflake Royal]

The players pressed hard in the first half and just didn’t have the same energy levels in the second half.

Yeah, the dropping deep thing is a natural reaction to losing confidence and tiring.

You're scared of leaving space in behind and get caught out. Especially with our lack of pace at the back.

And each time it's harder to get back up the pitch as you're tired. And because everyone is coming back, there's no out ball to hold it up, so you're caught playing in little space in your own packed third or sending it forward and watching it come straight back.

Once you've let yourself slip into that it's incredibly hard to get out of it. I think you very rarely see teams succeed at it without some sort of big motivational event, like a goal against the run of play, or a particularly big challenge or unjust decision.

Agreed - I thought TDB was the right sub at the time but in retrospect he is a bit of a headless chicken at times which summed up much of our midfield second half. Ejaria would have been a better option, granted i didn’t see his performance on Tuesday so maybe that was bad enough to not want to bring him on

It has been a huge feature of our poorer performances this year though - the lack of control and ball retention in midfield

That is the one thing Ejaria brings. But he was dreadful and kept giving the ball away and creating breaks against in his last game.

Started ok, but really just lost it. It's ironic that Rother loves him so much but hates Joao when Ejaria demonstrates all the same behaviours he hates in Joao.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

Southcoast Royal wrote:

Watched their 27 Colwill with interest as he has played for the full Welsh side-very impressed and he reminded me very much of Darren Anderton (when fit enough to play of course).
Destined for better things IMHO.

Agreed, an impressive performance and for me man of the match. Only 19 as well!

Joe Bagan their No 3 looked good as well.

[SCIAG]

Hoilett was excellent on the right against Stoke. Back on the left to accommodate Ince spelled trouble from the start. He's just not the same player.

TMac isn't a fullback. Rahman must really be pissing about in training for Ince not to have brought him back.

I reckon we need 3 more points to be safe - not sure where they're coming from without Swift

Remember when a left footed player played on the left wing & a right footer played on the right? I miss those days. Give me a player who can beat his man & either cross effectively or cut back from the byline, over 1 who occasionally cuts back & scores any day of the week. Why did it need to change?!

Not a coincidence that it largely coincides with the switch to lone striker systems. Encourages the wingers to get closer to the centre forward to link up and become goal threats. If you go on the outside and sling the ball in then the striker is probably going to be outnumbered and he’ll have a tough time.

Last season Meite scored 12 goals in 25 appearances. That’s the same as Convey and Little scored in 2005/06 combined. Ince had similar returns at Blackpool and Derby.

Last time we had two wingers regularly going on the outside was under Coppell, with Hunt and Kebe, which again was when we were playing with two strikers. Maybe we played Barrow and McCleary together, but my memory is that McCleary was injured for most of Barrow’s time and we usually had Aluko or Meite on the right. If successive managers are all doing the same thing, and many of them are having a lot of success with it, maybe that thing isn’t to blame for one bad result.

[South Coast Royal]

Hoilett was excellent on the right against Stoke. Back on the left to accommodate Ince spelled trouble from the start. He's just not the same player.

TMac isn't a fullback. Rahman must really be pissing about in training for Ince not to have brought him back.

I reckon we need 3 more points to be safe - not sure where they're coming from without Swift

Remember when a left footed player played on the left wing & a right footer played on the right? I miss those days. Give me a player who can beat his man & either cross effectively or cut back from the byline, over 1 who occasionally cuts back & scores any day of the week. Why did it need to change?!

Not a coincidence that it largely coincides with the switch to lone striker systems. Encourages the wingers to get closer to the centre forward to link up and become goal threats. If you go on the outside and sling the ball in then the striker is probably going to be outnumbered and he’ll have a tough time.

Last season Meite scored 12 goals in 25 appearances. That’s the same as Convey and Little scored in 2005/06 combined. Ince had similar returns at Blackpool and Derby.

Last time we had two wingers regularly going on the outside was under Coppell, with Hunt and Kebe, which again was when we were playing with two strikers. Maybe we played Barrow and McCleary together, but my memory is that McCleary was injured for most of Barrow’s time and we usually had Aluko or Meite on the right. If successive managers are all doing the same thing, and many of them are having a lot of success with it, maybe that thing isn’t to blame for one bad result.

A fair point about the lone striker but in our case I don't see our wide players getting close to Joao to help him out.
I feel sorry for Joao in that he is so often double-marked and there is no easy option to play to a supporting player, be that a winger or an attacking midfielder.

Incidentally with Ejaria, Halilovic , Ince etc. playing in those wide areas I haven't noticed too many goals coming as a result of being wrong-sided wingers but with Meite there he has been less of a provider but much more of a goal threat.
So maybe it is the personnel rather than the system.

[Orion1871]

Most disappointing thing for me about yesterday is that once again this season the club do a good job of getting people in the door, and once again the team do a terrible job of encouraging those people to even think about coming back.

[URZZZZ]

Whilst a defeat is disappointing, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t entirely matter. Not finishing anywhere other than 21st or the relegation zone and it’s another game gone with the same distance to 22nd

It is a team who have thrown away lead after lead this season so it isn’t entirely surprising but the remit at this stage is just about staying up and yesterday further increased the chances

Yes and no. Yes in that it’s one game less and the gap hasn’t been closed. No in that we had much the easier game yesterday and didn’t make it count. Others have easier games when we have harder fixtures. We have to hope they don’t take advantage.

Sure but think you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn’t have taken 4 points from Barnsley, Stoke and Cardiff (on the proviso we didn’t lose to Barnsley) especially considering Barnsley lost yesterday

Given Hull have lost 6 home games straight and West Brom have only won one away game since early December (coincidentally that being at Hull), there’s still huge opportunity for us to pick up points, meaning teams below would need almost perfection

[RoyalBlue]

I think Hoilett coming off changed the game. I was surprised Ejaria didn't come on at 1-1 and Azeez came on instead. Seemed to kill any cutting edge going forward. It was the same against Stoke.

Teams have started to target us near the left back area. That's a few we've conceded around that part of the pitch.

Rahman in for Sheffield United please! Hopefully Swift only came off as a precaution but saw him limping down the tunnel.

Swift is out for two weeks.

He hasn't really been on it for half the season now, so this isn't necessarily as bad as it might seem. Be interesting to see what Ince does.
.

Even when 'not really on it' he is still a key player for us as the stats continue to show. We saw how appallingly we did when he was out last time around. Drinkwater now becomes even more key (the boo boys better do one!) and a major challenge for Ince senior is to do whatever is necessary to get Ejaria performing at the top levels that he has shown he is capable of over the next few games.

[RoyalBlue]

Quote from Ince post match "Second half for some reason we decided to drop deep, no idea why but we did the same against Stoke".

Why did he not make it clear to the team to press up the pitch at half time and even if they were dropping deeper and deeper as the game progressed second half sort it out from the touchline after all that's the manager job

It's also the job of the captain, the keeper and other experienced players on the pitch. With the possible exception of Drinkwater they all failed in that regard today.

[Bristol Paul]

Southcoast Royal wrote:

Watched their 27 Colwill with interest as he has played for the full Welsh side-very impressed and he reminded me very much of Darren Anderton (when fit enough to play of course).
Destined for better things IMHO.

Agreed, an impressive performance and for me man of the match. Only 19 as well!

Joe Bagan their No 3 looked good as well.

Yes Colwill was excellent, not only with the ball where he was very skilful for a big man, but worked incredibly hard closing down without the ball.

[SCIAG]

Remember when a left footed player played on the left wing & a right footer played on the right? I miss those days. Give me a player who can beat his man & either cross effectively or cut back from the byline, over 1 who occasionally cuts back & scores any day of the week. Why did it need to change?!

Not a coincidence that it largely coincides with the switch to lone striker systems. Encourages the wingers to get closer to the centre forward to link up and become goal threats. If you go on the outside and sling the ball in then the striker is probably going to be outnumbered and he’ll have a tough time.

Last season Meite scored 12 goals in 25 appearances. That’s the same as Convey and Little scored in 2005/06 combined. Ince had similar returns at Blackpool and Derby.

Last time we had two wingers regularly going on the outside was under Coppell, with Hunt and Kebe, which again was when we were playing with two strikers. Maybe we played Barrow and McCleary together, but my memory is that McCleary was injured for most of Barrow’s time and we usually had Aluko or Meite on the right. If successive managers are all doing the same thing, and many of them are having a lot of success with it, maybe that thing isn’t to blame for one bad result.

A fair point about the lone striker but in our case I don't see our wide players getting close to Joao to help him out.
I feel sorry for Joao in that he is so often double-marked and there is no easy option to play to a supporting player, be that a winger or an attacking midfielder.

Incidentally with Ejaria, Halilovic , Ince etc. playing in those wide areas I haven't noticed too many goals coming as a result of being wrong-sided wingers but with Meite there he has been less of a provider but much more of a goal threat.
So maybe it is the personnel rather than the system.

Most of our best chances yesterday came from wingers linking up with Joao or Swift in the half-space. And in terms of average position, our wingers were narrow. People have been saying McIntyre doesn’t get wide enough but he was wider than Hoilett yesterday.

Halilovic and Azeez have posted some fairly reasonable numbers in their limited game time. Fair to say we’d have liked some more end product from Ejaria and Ince this season but I don’t think Ovie would be contributing more as an orthodox right midfielder.

[South Coast Royal]

Not a coincidence that it largely coincides with the switch to lone striker systems. Encourages the wingers to get closer to the centre forward to link up and become goal threats. If you go on the outside and sling the ball in then the striker is probably going to be outnumbered and he’ll have a tough time.

Last season Meite scored 12 goals in 25 appearances. That’s the same as Convey and Little scored in 2005/06 combined. Ince had similar returns at Blackpool and Derby.

Last time we had two wingers regularly going on the outside was under Coppell, with Hunt and Kebe, which again was when we were playing with two strikers. Maybe we played Barrow and McCleary together, but my memory is that McCleary was injured for most of Barrow’s time and we usually had Aluko or Meite on the right. If successive managers are all doing the same thing, and many of them are having a lot of success with it, maybe that thing isn’t to blame for one bad result.

A fair point about the lone striker but in our case I don't see our wide players getting close to Joao to help him out.
I feel sorry for Joao in that he is so often double-marked and there is no easy option to play to a supporting player, be that a winger or an attacking midfielder.

Incidentally with Ejaria, Halilovic , Ince etc. playing in those wide areas I haven't noticed too many goals coming as a result of being wrong-sided wingers but with Meite there he has been less of a provider but much more of a goal threat.
So maybe it is the personnel rather than the system.

Most of our best chances yesterday came from wingers linking up with Joao or Swift in the half-space. And in terms of average position, our wingers were narrow. People have been saying McIntyre doesn’t get wide enough but he was wider than Hoilett yesterday.

Halilovic and Azeez have posted some fairly reasonable numbers in their limited game time. Fair to say we’d have liked some more end product from Ejaria and Ince this season but I don’t think Ovie would be contributing more as an orthodox right midfielder.

Just on Ejaria, surely he has to play centrally and will presumably now get his chance there with doubts over Swift.
When he first came to the club IIRC he was playing centrally and is just wasted out wide.

[Snowflake Royal]

Given he didn’t get on yesterday and Laurent has been being pushed forward by Ince, it wouldn’t surprise me if he takes over from Swift.

[South Coast Royal]

A fair point about the lone striker but in our case I don't see our wide players getting close to Joao to help him out.
I feel sorry for Joao in that he is so often double-marked and there is no easy option to play to a supporting player, be that a winger or an attacking midfielder.

Incidentally with Ejaria, Halilovic , Ince etc. playing in those wide areas I haven't noticed too many goals coming as a result of being wrong-sided wingers but with Meite there he has been less of a provider but much more of a goal threat.
So maybe it is the personnel rather than the system.

Most of our best chances yesterday came from wingers linking up with Joao or Swift in the half-space. And in terms of average position, our wingers were narrow. People have been saying McIntyre doesn’t get wide enough but he was wider than Hoilett yesterday.

Halilovic and Azeez have posted some fairly reasonable numbers in their limited game time. Fair to say we’d have liked some more end product from Ejaria and Ince this season but I don’t think Ovie would be contributing more as an orthodox right midfielder.

Just on Ejaria, surely he has to play centrally and will presumably now get his chance there with doubts over Swift.
When he first came to the club IIRC he was playing centrally and is just wasted out wide.

Interesting that today Pep is playing broadly (I say broadly because of their continuous interchange of positions) right-footed Jesus wide right and left-footed Foden wide right.
Who knows, it might just catch on.

[SCIAG]

Most of our best chances yesterday came from wingers linking up with Joao or Swift in the half-space. And in terms of average position, our wingers were narrow. People have been saying McIntyre doesn’t get wide enough but he was wider than Hoilett yesterday.

Halilovic and Azeez have posted some fairly reasonable numbers in their limited game time. Fair to say we’d have liked some more end product from Ejaria and Ince this season but I don’t think Ovie would be contributing more as an orthodox right midfielder.

Just on Ejaria, surely he has to play centrally and will presumably now get his chance there with doubts over Swift.
When he first came to the club IIRC he was playing centrally and is just wasted out wide.

Interesting that today Pep is playing broadly (I say broadly because of their continuous interchange of positions) right-footed Jesus wide right and left-footed Foden wide right.
Who knows, it might just catch on.

Guardiola has been playing that way for most of the season. Creates room for the full backs to underlap, and he has the best midfielders in the world. IMO we don't have either the full backs or the midfielders to make that work.

Ejaria is much better on the left imo. I don't think his style would work as well if he had to play in the middle, which tends to be much more crowded. Stick him out on the left and he draws defenders towards him to make room in the middle. With Swift out he's probably our best option to play there, but ideally we'd have them both in the team and Ejaria on the left.

[Hendo]

First half - excellent
Second half - pretty poor

Not sure much else needs to be said.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Given he didn’t get on yesterday and Laurent has been being pushed forward by Ince, it wouldn’t surprise me if he takes over from Swift.

Possibly that or TDB will come into the side and it may be more of a deeper 3 with Laurent and TDB given the license to break from deep. Will be difficult away at Sheff United though regardless. Swift out for a couple of weeks is a big miss with a fair amount of games coming up in this period.

Regardless, from Saturday, we just need to learn to take our chances. A wealth of experience, especially at this level, within our squad. Very disappointing as we know the consequences of not taking your chances in this league means you can lose games quite easily.

[morganb]

Possibly that or TDB will come into the side.

Read somewhere over the weekend that TDB will be having a scan this week so may be injured?