As The Dust Settles - The Sombre Thread

[SCIAG]

Clearly we aren't going to agree on the merits of what has supposedly been one of the best EVER signings-ever is a very long time.
To judge somebody's merit then surely their availability for selection is an important element and Meite has played very little football for us over the past two seasons, has been largely ineffective and has been drawing a weekly wage of £17,500 and we will now not get a fee.
Am not saying it is his fault that he got injured .

Just because so many of our recent signings have been poor that doesn't mean that Meite was one of the best ever-it is a very low bar in recent years when most have been poor but IMHO his signing , over the whole tenure , has been fair.

Better scoring record than arguably two of the best wingers we have had Jimmy Kebe and Glen Little.
Meite 165 games 47 goals
Kebe and Little combined 286 games 38 goals.

But they were two out and out wingers who had the main role of providing chances and crosses for others.
Meite has had this more modern role of wide striker so his scoring stats should be compared to strikers.
Also of course those other two did play for us in the Premier League and not just The Championship.

Little I agree it is not fair to compare to Meite. It wasn't part of Little's game. He usually stayed wide and looked to create. Even by the standards of the time, he was a poor goalscorer for a winger. Little was a wide midfielder, Meite is more of a wide forward.

With Kebe on the other hand I think the comparison is fair... but only under McDermott, and only before promotion. I can remember a couple of great crosses Kebe put in, and he was definitely better at it than Meite, but he was still very much a modern winger who was expected to score.

Meite isn't a slouch defensively but he's also not as good as Kebe... ironically probably better than Little though, who Sidwell and Harper had to carry because he couldn't run.

Fairest comparison would be Meite's contemporaries - McCleary, Beerens, Barrow, Aluko, Ejaria, Olise, maybe Hoilett. All good players either for us or for other teams at this level. Meite outscored them all.

For me, a free transfer who makes that sort of impact is an excellent signing.

[SCIAG]

Yeah, but are both more suited to playing off another forward in a front 2. Given the cost, i just don't get why we bought both.

Joao I'm not sure about, his best stuff for us came as a lone striker.

But in any case, he and Puscas had similar strengths - they wanted the ball played into their feet rather than in behind or to their head. Both looked at their best when they had Meite running in behind them.

[Snowflake Royal]

Where to start…

Firstly you haven’t read my post correctly. He didn’t make 110 appearances over seven years, he made that over three years.

Secondly it is utterly bizarre to mark a signing down because of how he performed on loan at another team.

Thirdly it is strange to mark a player down because he had a bad injury five years after we signed him on a free transfer. It isn’t like we signed him for a big fee and never saw a return on our investment. We got a player who was a first team regular and an absolutely key member of our side for three years, who cost us nothing. That doesn’t retrospectively stop existing just because of his injuries. This isn’t a Nick Blackman situation.

Glen Little spent a large portion of his Reading career in the treatment room (and another portion being mediocre). Would you say he was only a “fair” signing?

Clearly we aren't going to agree on the merits of what has supposedly been one of the best EVER signings-ever is a very long time.
To judge somebody's merit then surely their availability for selection is an important element and Meite has played very little football for us over the past two seasons, has been largely ineffective and has been drawing a weekly wage of £17,500 and we will now not get a fee.
Am not saying it is his fault that he got injured .

Just because so many of our recent signings have been poor that doesn't mean that Meite was one of the best ever-it is a very low bar in recent years when most have been poor but IMHO his signing , over the whole tenure , has been fair.

Better scoring record than arguably two of the best wingers we have had Jimmy Kebe and Glen Little.
Meite 165 games 47 goals
Kebe and Little combined 286 games 38 goals.

I'm going to hazard a guess that Kebe, Little and McAnuff's assist numbers shit all over Meite's though. And their primary roles in the team were to assist.

[Snowflake Royal]

Meite has only had 6 assists in his Reading career according to whoscored, 3 of which came this year

Actually a pretty bizarre stat considering. Goal scoring record, esp up to 2 years ago was excellent

How many goals has he scored in two years?

[Snowflake Royal]

Let's see... excluding players brought into the Academy and loans

Kitson
Sidwell
Shorey
Doyle
Imgimarsson
Little
Kebe
McAnuff
Shaka
Caskey
Murty
Sonko
Quinn
Gooding
Osborn
Taylor
Leigertwood
Forster
Cureton
Hahnemann
Al Habsi


I reckon I'd rank at least all them above Meite as signings. Great signing that he was.

[tmesis]

Clearly we aren't going to agree on the merits of what has supposedly been one of the best EVER signings-ever is a very long time.
To judge somebody's merit then surely their availability for selection is an important element and Meite has played very little football for us over the past two seasons, has been largely ineffective and has been drawing a weekly wage of £17,500 and we will now not get a fee.
Am not saying it is his fault that he got injured .

Just because so many of our recent signings have been poor that doesn't mean that Meite was one of the best ever-it is a very low bar in recent years when most have been poor but IMHO his signing , over the whole tenure , has been fair.

Better scoring record than arguably two of the best wingers we have had Jimmy Kebe and Glen Little.
Meite 165 games 47 goals
Kebe and Little combined 286 games 38 goals.

I'm going to hazard a guess that Kebe, Little and McAnuff's assist numbers shit all over Meite's though. And their primary roles in the team were to assist.

How I'd love to have a player like Little back. A player who actually knew how to beat a man, and how (and when) to put a cross in. So many wide players now just whack the ball in flat, so it either gets blocked by the first man, or sails over the heads of everybody.

[SCIAG]

Let's see... excluding players brought into the Academy and loans
Kitson
Sidwell
Shorey
Doyle
Imgimarsson
Little
Sonko
Hahnemann
.

Very cheap or free (iirc), hundreds of appearances, played for us at the highest level without looking out-of-place (at least at first). We also sold half of them for >£2m. Could add Long, SHunt, Federici, Le Fondre.

Kebe
McAnuff
Murty
Leigertwood

All will be remembered better than Meite for their role in promotion-winning sides, but they cost significant amounts of money and weren't especially impressive in the top flight, though that's harsh on Kebe. IMO as "Reading legends" they have Meite beat, but not as signings. I'd probably put Harte ahead of this lot - was it £75k in ~2012?

Quinn
Gooding

I can't immediately rattle off the fees we paid for these two, but I think Quinn was fairly significant for the time? Both achieved more in a Reading shirt than Meite. If Gooding was free or nominal then he'd be ahead of Meite, although he was more workmanlike.

Osborn

What a player. We got a great player and made a massive profit. Shame he wasn't around for longer but a great signing.

Shaka

Free transfer, big profit, three years of magnificence. Can't argue with that.

Forster

Big fee. I'd compare him to... maybe not Joao, but... I don't know, Lita? Successful player, but the size of his fee stops him from being a "great signing" in my view.

Caskey

Similar deal, big fee, really produced on the pitch (although no "team" achievements) but not a "great signing", just a great player.

Taylor

Which Taylor? My first thought was Scott, who was an "academy" product. Can't be Andrew or Jake either. I've probably forgotten someone very obvious

Cureton

Cheap, too good for Division 2, goal machine. Discounting frees, would be in my top 5 or there abouts.

Al Habsi

Alongside Swift would probably be the most comparable to Meite, free transfers who were individually excellent but didn't quite top that off with a promotion. Although like Shaka and co., Swift and Al-Habsi can claim to have played major roles in a playoff campaign, which Meite can't really.

But the fact that this is the calibre of player one has to turn to when considering signings better than Meite rather proves my point. Maybe I have lower standards for "one of the best" than other people, but if the signings who were better than him are all club legends then to me that says he's one of our best signings.

[Snowflake Royal]

Didn’t know Scott came from the Academy.

Only saw him play once.

[CountryRoyal]

Let's see... excluding players brought into the Academy and loans
Kitson
Sidwell
Shorey
Doyle
Imgimarsson
Little
Sonko
Hahnemann
.

Very cheap or free (iirc), hundreds of appearances, played for us at the highest level without looking out-of-place (at least at first). We also sold half of them for >£2m. Could add Long, SHunt, Federici, Le Fondre.

Kebe
McAnuff
Murty
Leigertwood

Taylor

Which Taylor? My first thought was Scott, who was an "academy" product. Can't be Andrew or Jake either. I've probably forgotten someone very obvious
.

Stephen Quinn perhaps?

[Snowflake Royal]

High fees also don't really make someone less of a great signing imo, provided they actually perform.

[Sutekh]

With added transfer fees….

Let's see... excluding players brought into the Academy and loans

Kitson - £150,000
Sidwell - undisclosed
Shorey - £25,000
Doyle - most of the 78,000 Euros fee, the rest of it covered Shane Long
Imgimarsson - £175,000
Little - free transfer
Kebe - undisclosed
McAnuff - undisclosed
Shaka - free transfer
Caskey - £700,000
Murty - £750,000
Sonko - free transfer
Quinn - £50,000
Gooding - £65,000
Osborn - £90,000
Taylor - £20,000 (I’ve presumed this to be Les Taylor as Scott and Jake were both youth players, Stuart only made 4 apps, Andrew was a loan and Alan was circa mid 1970s)
Leigertwood - free transfer
Forster - £650,000
Cureton - £250,000
Hahnemann - free transfer
Al Habsi - free transfer


I reckon I'd rank at least all them above Meite as signings. Great signing that he was.

Surprised Parky (37.5k) Darius (free), Bremner (35k) and Dixon (20k) are missing from the above, then there’s Hicksy and super Trev!

If you want to go back further, I always thought Brian Carnaby (free) was an unsung hero of the club.

[Notts Royal]

Signed on a free transfer and our joint highest top scorer at this level.

Don't agree, but it's not that strange and opinion.

Not a candle to Kitson, Doyle, Sidwell, Shorey, Ingimarsson though.

I think that is fair. Compared to those, not to that level.

But compared to the dross of the last decade, Meite has to be considered one of the best signings we have made.

Do we think Joao was a good signing? Was he good value for money? Excellent on his day, but very expensive & injury-prone.

What really annoyed me was the signing of both Joao & Puscas in 1 go. Completely different styles & no plan of how to utilise them both.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Agree where it's mentioned that people can view players at better/better signings when they have played in more successful teams, like Kebe and Little. They were good players in successful teams, whereas Meite was largely a good player in an unsuccessful team (the last couple of seasons aside). I'm not saying Meite was better than either Little or Kebe, I think they are different players, but I'd say Meite was good at what he did.

It may have just been the rumour mill at the time, but it seemed like he attracted PL interest from a few clubs (Brighton and Palace spring to mind) after a couple of really good seasons with ourselves, so obviously had quality. I do think we'd see Meite in a different light if he was playing in a more successful team, like the 2005/06 team or 2011/12 team.

[Hound]

Main problem with Meite is he is so limited to what role he can play. Literally had to play him as a right sided forward in a 3 or else he’d generally not be much good

Meant the system almost had to be built round his limitations

I thought he could do a job at CF but he almost got worse at that as his time went on

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Yeah he showed some promise as a CF under Clement actually in a 4-4-2 but never really showed anything else in that position after that.

[Forbury Lion]

Meite isn't a slouch defensively but he's also not as good as Kebe... ironically probably better than Little though, who Sidwell and Harper had to carry because he couldn't run.

With the ball at his feet, Little didn't have to run as they couldn't take the ball off him.

All about balance, Sidwell, Harper, Convey, Little worked as a unit, If you replaced Little with Meite then that unit would have adapted and probably been as effective, whereas you stick Little in this team and he would be a let down because the team is poor.

[Snowflake Royal]

Main problem with Meite is he is so limited to what role he can play. Literally had to play him as a right sided forward in a 3 or else he’d generally not be much good

Meant the system almost had to be built round his limitations

I thought he could do a job at CF but he almost got worse at that as his time went on

Yeah this. Love him. He's great at what he does. But he's a very limited player.

[SCIAG]

High fees also don't really make someone less of a great signing imo, provided they actually perform.

For me a “great signing” as opposed to a “great player” is about value-for-money.

It’s the difference between Mahrez signing for Leicester and Mahrez signing for Man City. It’s more impressive that Leicester signed a title-winning winger for half a million, than it is that Man City signed a multi-title winning winger for £60m.

We got what we paid for when we signed Fozzy. We got much more than we paid for when we signed Cureton.

[SCIAG]

Meite isn't a slouch defensively but he's also not as good as Kebe... ironically probably better than Little though, who Sidwell and Harper had to carry because he couldn't run.

With the ball at his feet, Little didn't have to run as they couldn't take the ball off him.

All about balance, Sidwell, Harper, Convey, Little worked as a unit, If you replaced Little with Meite then that unit would have adapted and probably been as effective, whereas you stick Little in this team and he would be a let down because the team is poor.

We built the team around Little, getting the most out of his strengths while covering his weakness.

I’m not sure Meite would have worked nearly as well. Easy to imagine him linking up well with Doyle and Convey. But it would have put all the creative burden on the left, and we didn’t need another goalscorer.

[tmesis]

Meite isn't a slouch defensively but he's also not as good as Kebe... ironically probably better than Little though, who Sidwell and Harper had to carry because he couldn't run.

With the ball at his feet, Little didn't have to run as they couldn't take the ball off him.

All about balance, Sidwell, Harper, Convey, Little worked as a unit, If you replaced Little with Meite then that unit would have adapted and probably been as effective, whereas you stick Little in this team and he would be a let down because the team is poor.

We built the team around Little, getting the most out of his strengths while covering his weakness.

I’m not sure Meite would have worked nearly as well. Easy to imagine him linking up well with Doyle and Convey. But it would have put all the creative burden on the left, and we didn’t need another goalscorer.

The 442 we played under Coppell just wouldn't have worked with Meite, unless he was one of the front two