MATCHWATCH : Charlton Athletic (a)

[Snowflake Royal]

This. We only collapsed after the second goal - we had a good chance with Ehib to equalise just before their wonder strike. I also felt we edged the game until their first goal, but didn't really feel like we had the cutting edge to actually score.

Did you hear what they were arguing about? Couldn't hear it from where I was. I think it was at 3-0 down, so probably something about criticising players.

I enjoyed watching the pigeons in the second half; they showed much more movement off the ball than our players.

The thing is we created chances but no one looked capable of a finish. Whilst you knew Charlton could only get better.

They didn't create much first half and what they did they completely fluffed. But it was so clear they'd improve and we'd eventually present them a goal on a plate or something would fly in.


At least Craig looked comfortable and Wing dows look a step up on most of our midfield.

Nothing will improve whilst we continue to play Selles' way.

I think not having someone capable of finishing has been our biggest issue this season. Basically every away game has hinged on us not taking chances at crucial points. Perhaps Sam Smith playing will help with that (can't remember him having a shot yesterday though); one of the positives was getting an hour out of him.

I'd say we should switch to a diamond midfield, rather than a box (if we're going to play four defenders and two strikers, with the width coming from the full-backs).

Instead of:
AM (Knibbs) - AM (Azeez)
CM (Craig) - CM (Wing)
Yesterday's midfield in brackets

We'd play:
AM (Knibbs/Elliott; being allowed to drift wide)
CM (Savage/Craig) - CM (Wing)
DM (McIntyre/Hutch)

I think that would assist defensively. I don't know how many times we relied on the pace of Abbey to prevent Charlton having a one-on-one chance yesterday, but it seemed to be constant.

Incidentally, does anyone know why McIntyre, Holmes and Mukairu weren't in the squad yesterday? Were they injured or simply not selected? I'd be starting with Mukairu over Azeez in our current system.

Holmes was some sort fitness doubt, McInytre recovered from concussion only to get a muscle injury in training.

I think the diamond is just another way of relying on all width from fullbacks without offering them much protection.

[Clyde1998]

The thing is we created chances but no one looked capable of a finish. Whilst you knew Charlton could only get better.

They didn't create much first half and what they did they completely fluffed. But it was so clear they'd improve and we'd eventually present them a goal on a plate or something would fly in.


At least Craig looked comfortable and Wing dows look a step up on most of our midfield.

Nothing will improve whilst we continue to play Selles' way.

*Snip*

Holmes was some sort fitness doubt, McInytre recovered from concussion only to get a muscle injury in training.

I think the diamond is just another way of relying on all width from fullbacks without offering them much protection.

Thanks. Didn't realise McIntyre had picked up a new injury. Can understand Holmes not being fully fit given he's been missing from the squad since August.

I'd rather have most of the width coming from the wingers, with them providing defensive cover myself. It's more of the point about how a couple of small adjustments to the tactics could significantly improve the balance of the team - especially for away matches - if Selles wants to maintain his current tactical philosophy. If I was given a blank slate, I'd be making a decision between 4-2-3-1 (with DMs and wingers), 4-3-3/4-5-1 and 5-3-2 with our current squad; probably the 4-3-3/4-5-1.

[stealthpapes]

A game where we seemed to edge it without really looking like scoring and then ended up collapsing.

Highlight was when an older guy almost got in a fight with a teenager.

This. We only collapsed after the second goal - we had a good chance with Ehib to equalise just before their wonder strike. I also felt we edged the game until their first goal, but didn't really feel like we had the cutting edge to actually score.

Did you hear what they were arguing about? Couldn't hear it from where I was. I think it was at 3-0 down, so probably something about criticising players.

I enjoyed watching the pigeons in the second half; they showed much more movement off the ball than our players.

Basically what Clyde said. First half solid but no bite, fell apart when Charlton scored. Four quite soft goals.

The fight I saw was basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoDKh1EAZjI

Full props to the female steward who dealt with it, also had some bloke down the front giving it right in her face.

Also from the verbals,
"mate, they're a bunch of eighteen year olds"
" THEY'RE NINETEEN "

I really don't think the players deserve any of the criticism. There are very few individual poor performances - Button at Northampton, sure. Take Abbey, a one man wrecking ball of a defence for the most part. Vickers had an assured cameo. They're just all young, a bit nice, the system isn't helping anyone and morale must be subterranean. Had two solid chats on way home, particularly one on train in London - cheers, I guess.

My day on the other hand, was an absolute delight! Walked from Euston down to the river, caught the river bus up to North Woolwich, walked around old Arsenal then along the river to Hope and Anchor. Found a fresh seafood stand by the pub, so ate oysters and drank a pint or two looking over the Thames. Weather held up there to make it a solid one. Nice walk to ground, the away end is a bit of shambles. First half, you know, not bad.

Then ...

[Clyde1998]

A game where we seemed to edge it without really looking like scoring and then ended up collapsing.

Highlight was when an older guy almost got in a fight with a teenager.

This. We only collapsed after the second goal - we had a good chance with Ehib to equalise just before their wonder strike. I also felt we edged the game until their first goal, but didn't really feel like we had the cutting edge to actually score.

Did you hear what they were arguing about? Couldn't hear it from where I was. I think it was at 3-0 down, so probably something about criticising players.

I enjoyed watching the pigeons in the second half; they showed much more movement off the ball than our players.

Basically what Clyde said. First half solid but no bite, fell apart when Charlton scored. Four quite soft goals.

The fight I saw was basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoDKh1EAZjI

Full props to the female steward who dealt with it, also had some bloke down the front giving it right in her face.

Also from the verbals,
"mate, they're a bunch of eighteen year olds"
" THEY'RE NINETEEN "

I really don't think the players deserve any of the criticism. There are very few individual poor performances - Button at Northampton, sure. Take Abbey, a one man wrecking ball of a defence for the most part. Vickers had an assured cameo. They're just all young, a bit nice, the system isn't helping anyone and morale must be subterranean. Had two solid chats on way home, particularly one on train in London - cheers, I guess.

My day on the other hand, was an absolute delight! Walked from Euston down to the river, caught the river bus up to North Woolwich, walked around old Arsenal then along the river to Hope and Anchor. Found a fresh seafood stand by the pub, so ate oysters and drank a pint or two looking over the Thames. Weather held up there to make it a solid one. Nice walk to ground, the away end is a bit of shambles. First half, you know, not bad.

Then ...

Seems completely pathetic. As if players being eighteen or nineteen makes any serious difference when they're up against experienced professionals. The stewards did seem to handle the situation well from where I was.

I agree the players can't really come under much criticism. Any poor individual performances can be called out, but generally the player already knows when they're having a bad game or are making mistakes - they don't need abuse to make them aware of it. When you're dealing with inexperienced players, they're going to make mistakes more established players won't make; they're ultimately still learning and should make significant improvements this season as a result of these errors. It's not the fault of the player if they're playing despite not being ready for this level or are being forced into a system that can't get the best out of them. Of individuals: Abbey has been incredible this season and was by far and way our best player yesterday; Vickers continues to look like he could become a serious player; Ehib needs a rest.

Good to hear your trip was better than mine; I was on the STAR coach that broke down! I'm assuming the coach knew what the result would be. Just managed to get in for kick off. Completely agree that away end is a shambles - who thought it was a good idea to put both bar areas directly at the access/egress points of the stand? Blocks anyone entering/leaving the stand and you have to walk through all the queues to get to the toilets. If you could get into the lower section from the back of the stand, which by-passes the bars, it wouldn't be so bad.

Once back in Reading, I went into the Aldi on Basingstoke Road whilst waiting for a bus back into town to get some food (there wasn't anything I wanted as their ) and got accused by their security guard of shoplifting. Seemed really taken aback by my calmness and willingness to open my bag (had to ask him twice if he wanted me to open my bag), before finding nothing but my phone charger and my book. Christ knows what he thought I'd taken or if he was just profiling, although that generally means I don't get searched.

[KC Royal]

A rare game for me, and even rarer away. My first trip to the Valley, was in the home end (went with non Reading mate) just behind the Charlton dugout. Disappointing result but it wasn't a 0-4 performance, in fact until Charlton scored i thought we were marginally the better team. The first goal actually came against the run of play, there was only one team in it in the 2nd half prior to that. The header that Knibbs missed from a corner proved to be a turning point, Charlton's first goal came shortly after. I did think our inexperience showed after the 2nd goal though. Good noise from the away end.

Few other thoughts:
Abbey was great. He was at fault for the final goal and didn't win much in the air first half but otherwise didn't think he put a foot wrong. Shame he probably won't be with us next season..
Selles was on Smith's case the whole game, i'm assuming about movement. I fully expected him to come off after an hour anyway given it was his first game but it wasn't a surprise that he was the first off. I also noticed when there was a stoppage for a Charlton injury he had a long chat with Dean. Again, with that in mind Dean's substitution wasn't a surprise (although I couldn't understand Mola replacing him when i thought he was a LB?).

[paultheroyal]

Half decent first half, Charlton were very poor. Knibbs missing that sitter of a header was a turning point for what came in the second galf.

Abbey is simply sensational. Pleased fans called his name at end of the game. Hats off for the players coming over at the end. Speaking to Charlton fans at end of the game, sympathised with what we are experiencing and couldn’t believe the turnout and support given to players. Nice to see mbengue and yiadom in away end but soon scarpered when their goal went in.

[Brogue]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

[tidus_mi2]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

REFORMED gangster Dave Courtney smiles as he watches his beloved Charlton Athletic yesterday in his last social media post.

The criminal-turned-author enjoyed the "full works" with a three course meal at The Valley as The Addicks lost 4-0 to Reading.

Quality reporting from the Sun

[Uke]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

Just in case anyone hasn’t seen it - this….

https://youtu.be/tX8TgVR33KM?si=6EEE1rEUWyrbkAXW

[scumbag]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

Just in case anyone hasn’t seen it - this….

https://youtu.be/tX8TgVR33KM?si=6EEE1rEUWyrbkAXW

Wow, that's a pretty powerful video.

[paultheroyal]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

Wasn’t the guy who came on at start of game was it? Cream suit, no socks combo?

[Sutekh]

Some famous gangster has died. Found dead at his home with a bullet hole in his head. His last social media post was from yesterdays game

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24486577/ ... ster-dead/

Wasn’t the guy who came on at start of game was it? Cream suit, no socks combo?

Usual top quality accurate Sun reporting:

The criminal-turned-author enjoyed the "full works" with a three-course meal at The Valley as The Addicks lost 4-0 to Reading on Saturday.

[Royal_jimmy]

This. We only collapsed after the second goal - we had a good chance with Ehib to equalise just before their wonder strike. I also felt we edged the game until their first goal, but didn't really feel like we had the cutting edge to actually score.

Did you hear what they were arguing about? Couldn't hear it from where I was. I think it was at 3-0 down, so probably something about criticising players.

I enjoyed watching the pigeons in the second half; they showed much more movement off the ball than our players.

Basically what Clyde said. First half solid but no bite, fell apart when Charlton scored. Four quite soft goals.

The fight I saw was basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoDKh1EAZjI

Full props to the female steward who dealt with it, also had some bloke down the front giving it right in her face.

Also from the verbals,
"mate, they're a bunch of eighteen year olds"
" THEY'RE NINETEEN "

I really don't think the players deserve any of the criticism. There are very few individual poor performances - Button at Northampton, sure. Take Abbey, a one man wrecking ball of a defence for the most part. Vickers had an assured cameo. They're just all young, a bit nice, the system isn't helping anyone and morale must be subterranean. Had two solid chats on way home, particularly one on train in London - cheers, I guess.

My day on the other hand, was an absolute delight! Walked from Euston down to the river, caught the river bus up to North Woolwich, walked around old Arsenal then along the river to Hope and Anchor. Found a fresh seafood stand by the pub, so ate oysters and drank a pint or two looking over the Thames. Weather held up there to make it a solid one. Nice walk to ground, the away end is a bit of shambles. First half, you know, not bad.

Then ...

Seems completely pathetic. As if players being eighteen or nineteen makes any serious difference when they're up against experienced professionals. The stewards did seem to handle the situation well from where I was.

I agree the players can't really come under much criticism. Any poor individual performances can be called out, but generally the player already knows when they're having a bad game or are making mistakes - they don't need abuse to make them aware of it. When you're dealing with inexperienced players, they're going to make mistakes more established players won't make; they're ultimately still learning and should make significant improvements this season as a result of these errors. It's not the fault of the player if they're playing despite not being ready for this level or are being forced into a system that can't get the best out of them. Of individuals: Abbey has been incredible this season and was by far and way our best player yesterday; Vickers continues to look like he could become a serious player; Ehib needs a rest.

Good to hear your trip was better than mine; I was on the STAR coach that broke down! I'm assuming the coach knew what the result would be. Just managed to get in for kick off. Completely agree that away end is a shambles - who thought it was a good idea to put both bar areas directly at the access/egress points of the stand? Blocks anyone entering/leaving the stand and you have to walk through all the queues to get to the toilets. If you could get into the lower section from the back of the stand, which by-passes the bars, it wouldn't be so bad.

Once back in Reading, I went into the Aldi on Basingstoke Road whilst waiting for a bus back into town to get some food (there wasn't anything I wanted as their ) and got accused by their security guard of shoplifting. Seemed really taken aback by my calmness and willingness to open my bag (had to ask him twice if he wanted me to open my bag), before finding nothing but my phone charger and my book. Christ knows what he thought I'd taken or if he was just profiling, although that generally means I don't get searched.

I'm surprised you didn't get the train! particularly if you live in the middle of Reading. I didn't know the coach broke down! where was that? did you get sent a replacement or did they fix it?

It's not a surprise it's getting toxic. It's not the players fault, it's all because of Dai. But I get why people are slating them as well, in the heat of the moment when your teams getting thrashed and capitulating after a solid first half you're going to feel angry and need to vent it on something. It should be on Dai though and some of it on Selles, not the youngsters.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Was the 2nd half as bad as what people were making it out then? Sounded like Abbey had a good game yet again and was the stand-out player. Something has got to change somewhere because at the moment we are sleep walking into yet another relegation.

Seen a bit about the players not being criticised too much, but they've got to take a significant part of the blame somewhere along the line as well. Can't just keep defending them because they are young players.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Was the 2nd half as bad as what people were making it out then? Sounded like Abbey had a good game yet again and was the stand-out player. Something has got to change somewhere because at the moment we are sleep walking into yet another relegation.

Seen a bit about the players not being criticised too much, but they've got to take a significant part of the blame somewhere along the line as well. Can't just keep defending them because they are young players.

Are they even that young? Abbey, Bindon, Ehibhatiomhan and Craig are the only 3 starting yesterday without competitive experience before this season.

[Snowflake Royal]

Was the 2nd half as bad as what people were making it out then? Sounded like Abbey had a good game yet again and was the stand-out player. Something has got to change somewhere because at the moment we are sleep walking into yet another relegation.

Seen a bit about the players not being criticised too much, but they've got to take a significant part of the blame somewhere along the line as well. Can't just keep defending them because they are young players.

No. It was fine apart from capitulating and conceding 4 goals.

This is a team that is desperate to win, so goes a little crazy trying to get back in a game they go behind in, losing discipline and getting picked off.

Earlier in the season they had faith and kept calm and carried on plugging away. That's gone now.

We can keep defending them because they're young. None of them are bad, they're just inexperienced. Even Carson who, at times, has looked completely out of his depth looks like a great prospect. We're throwing too many in at once out of necessity rather than phasing them in and the senior players are letting them down. But mostly Selles is letting them down.

It would have been helpeda little if the likes of Abrefa, Azeez, Camara, Abbey etc had another half dozen to dozen Championship appearances under their belt, but Ince refused to use subs or the youth.

Abbey has all the attributes to be an amazing player, but he needs to settle down. Defence looks chaotic with him in, and that's compared to recent years. His pace and strength get him out of trouble, but his inexperience puts him in it a lot. 1st and 4th goals in particular highlight that.

Misreads the flight of the cross and surges away from his man leaving him a free header and NGW unable to get there.

Positioning is wrong and the striker runs onto the throughball for an easy 1v1.

Which is why calls for a return to Bindon and Abbey are wide of the mark imo. They're all over the shop positionally. Regrettably Dean just isn’t very good. McIntyre is injured and I'm not sure about playing 2 LCBs and Holmes is unfit, out of favour and shot for confidence.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Mbengue and one of McIntyre or Abbey when all fit though.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Was the 2nd half as bad as what people were making it out then? Sounded like Abbey had a good game yet again and was the stand-out player. Something has got to change somewhere because at the moment we are sleep walking into yet another relegation.

Seen a bit about the players not being criticised too much, but they've got to take a significant part of the blame somewhere along the line as well. Can't just keep defending them because they are young players.

No. It was fine apart from capitulating and conceding 4 goals.

This is a team that is desperate to win, so goes a little crazy trying to get back in a game they go behind in, losing discipline and getting picked off.

Earlier in the season they had faith and kept calm and carried on plugging away. That's gone now.

We can keep defending them because they're young. None of them are bad, they're just inexperienced. Even Carson who, at times, has looked completely out of his depth looks like a great prospect. We're throwing too many in at once out of necessity rather than phasing them in and the senior players are letting them down. But mostly Selles is letting them down.

It would have been helpeda little if the likes of Abrefa, Azeez, Camara, Abbey etc had another half dozen to dozen Championship appearances under their belt, but Ince refused to use subs or the youth.

Abbey has all the attributes to be an amazing player, but he needs to settle down. Defence looks chaotic with him in, and that's compared to recent years. His pace and strength get him out of trouble, but his inexperience puts him in it a lot. 1st and 4th goals in particular highlight that.

Misreads the flight of the cross and surges away from his man leaving him a free header and NGW unable to get there.

Positioning is wrong and the striker runs onto the throughball for an easy 1v1.

Which is why calls for a return to Bindon and Abbey are wide of the mark imo. They're all over the shop positionally. Regrettably Dean just isn’t very good. McIntyre is injured and I'm not sure about playing 2 LCBs and Holmes is unfit, out of favour and shot for confidence.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Mbengue and one of McIntyre or Abbey when all fit though.

Is their inexperience making them bad? Because we are conceding goals and losing games because of that, which is certainly bad. I don't think half a dozen fleeting appearances in a struggling Championship side would have made that significant a difference either. Looking like a great prospect means nothing when your actual ability translates to a team deep in the mire in L1.

[Snowflake Royal]

Their inexperience is leading to mistakes. That's what you get from young players.

It doesn’t make them bad.

Most of our best performers are the youth players.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

And these mistakes are bad, as they are costing us points. At the end of the day, the table doesn't lie and we'd still be in the bottom 4 even without the points deductions. I'm not saying it's all on them, the manager takes a fair share of the blame and I'm sure the overall situation at the club isn't helping and I'm wanting to think that we aren't as bad as results are suggesting, but how long before we say that maybe the players aren't that good after all?

Case in point, Charlie Savage was at Forest Green last season and Harvey Knibbs at Cambridge, who were both at the bottom end of L1, they are in a very similar situation again ands both look quite average in our team.

[WestYorksRoyal]

And these mistakes are bad, as they are costing us points. At the end of the day, the table doesn't lie and we'd still be in the bottom 4 even without the points deductions. I'm not saying it's all on them, the manager takes a fair share of the blame and I'm sure the overall situation at the club isn't helping and I'm wanting to think that we aren't as bad as results are suggesting, but how long before we say that maybe the players aren't that good after all?

Case in point, Charlie Savage was at Forest Green last season and Harvey Knibbs at Cambridge, who were both at the bottom end of L1, they are in a very similar situation again ands both look quite average in our team.

That doesn't tell the full story. Savage is a Man Utd academy product who was getting his first senior football experience. He is highly rated and on the fringes of the Wales squad. Knibbs and Smith were 2 of Cambridge's best performers - a bit like saying Swift is shit because he spent so maybe years battling relegation with us. Wing has an excellent L1 record.

Bowen did a good job building this squad; the off field situation and Selles's incompetence is making them underperform grossly. Off field stability and a reasonable manager and it's a top half squad in my view.