Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Snowflake Royal]

I don't think the EFL are out to kill us. What do you do when rules are repeatedly flouted and no sanction seems to make the slightest difference. The EFL eventually have to say enough is enough.

Well I guess one thing you might not do is just keep applying the same sanctions which don’t work

Anyway I’m not an anti-EFL type, Dai has put them in a very difficult decision, and one that ultimately shows they need to change their own governance.

They could start with not allowing Stoke type loopholes, punishing teams who go up by ‘cheating’ if and when they come back down, stop selling out for more tv cash in exchange for anti competitive parachute payments which are ruining the championship. Ultimately though the issue is of course the obscene wealth of the PL and there’s little we can do about that

Before making any other judgments I’d be interested to know what the EFL will push for here. Is it a hefty points deduction, a PD if we don’t sell, a fine, more embargoes? I don’t think they covered themselves in glory pushing for and failing to get the 8 point deduction for what was really a fairly minor offence before. Or for the pointless business plan they gave us which we had no chance of hitting - that was weak

The FL have no other leavers. What you want requires legislation and rules changes.

Not an option for us.

[WestYorksRoyal]

I don't think the EFL are out to kill us. What do you do when rules are repeatedly flouted and no sanction seems to make the slightest difference. The EFL eventually have to say enough is enough.

Well I guess one thing you might not do is just keep applying the same sanctions which don’t work

Anyway I’m not an anti-EFL type, Dai has put them in a very difficult decision, and one that ultimately shows they need to change their own governance.

They could start with not allowing Stoke type loopholes, punishing teams who go up by ‘cheating’ if and when they come back down, stop selling out for more tv cash in exchange for anti competitive parachute payments which are ruining the championship. Ultimately though the issue is of course the obscene wealth of the PL and there’s little we can do about that

Before making any other judgments I’d be interested to know what the EFL will push for here. Is it a hefty points deduction, a PD if we don’t sell, a fine, more embargoes? I don’t think they covered themselves in glory pushing for and failing to get the 8 point deduction for what was really a fairly minor offence before. Or for the pointless business plan they gave us which we had no chance of hitting - that was weak

The FL have no other leavers. What you want requires legislation and rules changes.

Not an option for us.

Meant to be a regulator in next week's Kings speech. Will be too late for us though

[Stranded]

I think the club will be liquidated and I have some money towards a phoenix club.

For all Storey’s bollox, I do wonder what due diligence from a potential investor might unearth. We have way more overheads than other clubs who have been in our position and I can honestly see there being too much shit to sort out.

I sometimes think Ejaria hasn’t been played so that we don’t trigger an appearance clause in his contract, which would mean more money paid to Liverpool. I appreciate this is all doom and gloom, but I can’t see a happy ending.

Saying that, it will be good fun supporting a Phoenix club and ground sharing with Maidenhead. We can break some crowd records in non league football.

I don't think it will go as far as a phoenix club, if we enter administration, I'd imagine that's the time someone like Ashley would buy us when we are worth absolutely nothing (figuratively speaking), that's when I think he'd pick the club up.

The issue I'd have with Ashley is he would only want us once we are at our lowest value, which would be once we've entered administration, which would almost certainly mean we'd be playing in L2 next season. The problem there is, what does that mean for the infrastructure of the club, in terms of the training facilities, academy, playing squad etc. Further cut backs would be necessary. All this would be fine if there was a guarantee we'd make it back up to L1 and then work towards the Championship again, but as we have seen with clubs like Bradford and Swindon, that isn't always the case.

Ashley would be one of the better options for the medium/long-term, although I think potentially another consortium willing to pay the price for ourselves now gives us a better chance to get out of this mess in the short-term, giving us a better chance of survival this season and keeping hold of what we've built behind the scenes. The risk then being, how do we know we haven't got another Dai on our hands? At least we know what we will get with Ashley. I just don't see liquidation happening under any circumstance.

One of the big problems at the moment is any new owner will look at the league table, see a side 8 points adrift of safety and on a run of what 7 without a win. They will be aware of the charge that has now been levied which, IMO at best, will bring a suspended points penalty activated at a certain date if the amount remains unpaid - so in short, they will look at the club as more than likely to be in L2 next season as things stands.

Given that, why would you pay 40m now and probably end up with a L2 side when you could wait for administration and pick up the same L2 club for half the price? If we are go down, we are probably going to have to strip down the academy, sell a lot of players and literally start again, again. So why pay more on the off chance the club may stay in L1. Remember we can't really strengthen in January as we can't pay any fees, so you would be hoping that changing the manager brings about a massive change and that no more punishments are brought against the club.

In short, Dai has shafted himself and more importantly us.

[Sutekh]

I think the club will be liquidated and I have some money towards a phoenix club.

For all Storey’s bollox, I do wonder what due diligence from a potential investor might unearth. We have way more overheads than other clubs who have been in our position and I can honestly see there being too much shit to sort out.

I sometimes think Ejaria hasn’t been played so that we don’t trigger an appearance clause in his contract, which would mean more money paid to Liverpool. I appreciate this is all doom and gloom, but I can’t see a happy ending.

Saying that, it will be good fun supporting a Phoenix club and ground sharing with Maidenhead. We can break some crowd records in non league football.

I don't think it will go as far as a phoenix club, if we enter administration, I'd imagine that's the time someone like Ashley would buy us when we are worth absolutely nothing (figuratively speaking), that's when I think he'd pick the club up.

The issue I'd have with Ashley is he would only want us once we are at our lowest value, which would be once we've entered administration, which would almost certainly mean we'd be playing in L2 next season. The problem there is, what does that mean for the infrastructure of the club, in terms of the training facilities, academy, playing squad etc. Further cut backs would be necessary. All this would be fine if there was a guarantee we'd make it back up to L1 and then work towards the Championship again, but as we have seen with clubs like Bradford and Swindon, that isn't always the case.

Ashley would be one of the better options for the medium/long-term, although I think potentially another consortium willing to pay the price for ourselves now gives us a better chance to get out of this mess in the short-term, giving us a better chance of survival this season and keeping hold of what we've built behind the scenes. The risk then being, how do we know we haven't got another Dai on our hands? At least we know what we will get with Ashley. I just don't see liquidation happening under any circumstance.

Would be a standard business practice though, wait until the lowest ebb before "saving" a club, it's what SJM did all those years ago and that didn't work out too bad.

[Hound]

Well I guess one thing you might not do is just keep applying the same sanctions which don’t work

Anyway I’m not an anti-EFL type, Dai has put them in a very difficult decision, and one that ultimately shows they need to change their own governance.

They could start with not allowing Stoke type loopholes, punishing teams who go up by ‘cheating’ if and when they come back down, stop selling out for more tv cash in exchange for anti competitive parachute payments which are ruining the championship. Ultimately though the issue is of course the obscene wealth of the PL and there’s little we can do about that

Before making any other judgments I’d be interested to know what the EFL will push for here. Is it a hefty points deduction, a PD if we don’t sell, a fine, more embargoes? I don’t think they covered themselves in glory pushing for and failing to get the 8 point deduction for what was really a fairly minor offence before. Or for the pointless business plan they gave us which we had no chance of hitting - that was weak

The FL have no other leavers. What you want requires legislation and rules changes.

Not an option for us.

Meant to be a regulator in next week's Kings speech. Will be too late for us though

What’s not an option for us? Confused

[windermereROYAL]

It`s like a slow death really, the EFL are not exactly fast at these things, I feel we won`t know anything until well into the new year.

[NathStPaul]

It`s like a slow death really, the EFL are not exactly fast at these things, I feel we won`t know anything until well into the new year.

We will know before that. HTH.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think the club will be liquidated and I have some money towards a phoenix club.

For all Storey’s bollox, I do wonder what due diligence from a potential investor might unearth. We have way more overheads than other clubs who have been in our position and I can honestly see there being too much shit to sort out.

I sometimes think Ejaria hasn’t been played so that we don’t trigger an appearance clause in his contract, which would mean more money paid to Liverpool. I appreciate this is all doom and gloom, but I can’t see a happy ending.

Saying that, it will be good fun supporting a Phoenix club and ground sharing with Maidenhead. We can break some crowd records in non league football.

I don't think it will go as far as a phoenix club, if we enter administration, I'd imagine that's the time someone like Ashley would buy us when we are worth absolutely nothing (figuratively speaking), that's when I think he'd pick the club up.

The issue I'd have with Ashley is he would only want us once we are at our lowest value, which would be once we've entered administration, which would almost certainly mean we'd be playing in L2 next season. The problem there is, what does that mean for the infrastructure of the club, in terms of the training facilities, academy, playing squad etc. Further cut backs would be necessary. All this would be fine if there was a guarantee we'd make it back up to L1 and then work towards the Championship again, but as we have seen with clubs like Bradford and Swindon, that isn't always the case.

Ashley would be one of the better options for the medium/long-term, although I think potentially another consortium willing to pay the price for ourselves now gives us a better chance to get out of this mess in the short-term, giving us a better chance of survival this season and keeping hold of what we've built behind the scenes. The risk then being, how do we know we haven't got another Dai on our hands? At least we know what we will get with Ashley. I just don't see liquidation happening under any circumstance.

One of the big problems at the moment is any new owner will look at the league table, see a side 8 points adrift of safety and on a run of what 7 without a win. They will be aware of the charge that has now been levied which, IMO at best, will bring a suspended points penalty activated at a certain date if the amount remains unpaid - so in short, they will look at the club as more than likely to be in L2 next season as things stands.

Given that, why would you pay 40m now and probably end up with a L2 side when you could wait for administration and pick up the same L2 club for half the price? If we are go down, we are probably going to have to strip down the academy, sell a lot of players and literally start again, again. So why pay more on the off chance the club may stay in L1. Remember we can't really strengthen in January as we can't pay any fees, so you would be hoping that changing the manager brings about a massive change and that no more punishments are brought against the club.

In short, Dai has shafted himself and more importantly us.

What I'd say there is, I think the whole attitude of the club would change with Dai out, it would also probably result in a change in manager as well. We know that the team is far, far better than bottom of the table, I just don't think the situation helps the team at all. A different owner and a different manager, for me, would result in better success on the pitch. 8 points ordinarily would seem like a lot, but we could comfortably make that up over the span of the season.

[Stranded]

I don't think it will go as far as a phoenix club, if we enter administration, I'd imagine that's the time someone like Ashley would buy us when we are worth absolutely nothing (figuratively speaking), that's when I think he'd pick the club up.

The issue I'd have with Ashley is he would only want us once we are at our lowest value, which would be once we've entered administration, which would almost certainly mean we'd be playing in L2 next season. The problem there is, what does that mean for the infrastructure of the club, in terms of the training facilities, academy, playing squad etc. Further cut backs would be necessary. All this would be fine if there was a guarantee we'd make it back up to L1 and then work towards the Championship again, but as we have seen with clubs like Bradford and Swindon, that isn't always the case.

Ashley would be one of the better options for the medium/long-term, although I think potentially another consortium willing to pay the price for ourselves now gives us a better chance to get out of this mess in the short-term, giving us a better chance of survival this season and keeping hold of what we've built behind the scenes. The risk then being, how do we know we haven't got another Dai on our hands? At least we know what we will get with Ashley. I just don't see liquidation happening under any circumstance.

One of the big problems at the moment is any new owner will look at the league table, see a side 8 points adrift of safety and on a run of what 7 without a win. They will be aware of the charge that has now been levied which, IMO at best, will bring a suspended points penalty activated at a certain date if the amount remains unpaid - so in short, they will look at the club as more than likely to be in L2 next season as things stands.

Given that, why would you pay 40m now and probably end up with a L2 side when you could wait for administration and pick up the same L2 club for half the price? If we are go down, we are probably going to have to strip down the academy, sell a lot of players and literally start again, again. So why pay more on the off chance the club may stay in L1. Remember we can't really strengthen in January as we can't pay any fees, so you would be hoping that changing the manager brings about a massive change and that no more punishments are brought against the club.

In short, Dai has shafted himself and more importantly us.

What I'd say there is, I think the whole attitude of the club would change with Dai out, it would also probably result in a change in manager as well. We know that the team is far, far better than bottom of the table, I just don't think the situation helps the team at all. A different owner and a different manager, for me, would result in better success on the pitch. 8 points ordinarily would seem like a lot, but we could comfortably make that up over the span of the season.

Possibly, but the charge has now occured so any new owner has to factor in that we may get hit with more points. It wouldn't be sensible business not to.

Derby got 9 points off for financial cheating, if they consider not paying tax in a timely manner in the same bracket then we can expect similar. So 8 pts becomes 17 (assuming the gap remains the same). Yes, this team is being set up wrong and a move to 433 or similar should see results improve but if the gap increases by results or penalties, I'd have close to zero confidence that we overhaul the club in 20th - even if the mood does change. Realistically we are a good month away from any takeover, assuming exclusivity is given to someone in the coming days - it may be longer. If this drags on to Xmas, what may the gap be then?

We look at this as fans, as a potential buyer you have to factor this in to the price you are willing to pay - and it would currently be markedly lower than Dai probably wants.

[Hound]

If we got another 9 points off, even 5, were down, simple as

At which point any more points deductions this season become totally irrelevant. So he’ll probably hold out for longer and keep breaking the rules for the next 9 months or so

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Oh yeah of course, it all depends how confident a buyer would be they can turn the fortunes around and obviously every game we play will impact that confidence as well as anything off the field. As you say, another points deduction and it becomes harder, if we keep losing (as we are) then the gap will widen. As of this moment in time, it's possible. A new owner in 2/3 months time and it could be drastically different.

[Elm Park Kid]

The point with Reading is that a buyer is paying for the potential, rather than the current reality.

There are lots of clubs that will never have the fan base or infrastructure to develop into a self-sustaining 'big team'. Reading does have that potential - it's got a large catchment area, a stadium that is good enough all the way up to the PL and a location that is appealing to players and third parties. And it's not *that* expensive to buy your way out of either League One or Two, especially if you're employing people that know what they're doing.

Ashley (or whoever) could look at Reading and think - "Ok, i'll need to pay £15m up front and £20m for the stadium, and we'll probably get relegated to L2 next season. But then given 3-4 seasons with me funding the side around £5m a year, we could be back in the Championship. Then all it takes it's one decent push, one good season, and we're in the PL and the club is worth £150m. Not too bad a gamble really.

[Hound]

The point with Reading is that a buyer is paying for the potential, rather than the current reality.

There are lots of clubs that will never have the fan base or infrastructure to develop into a self-sustaining 'big team'. Reading does have that potential - it's got a large catchment area, a stadium that is good enough all the way up to the PL and a location that is appealing to players and third parties. And it's not *that* expensive to buy your way out of either League One or Two, especially if you're employing people that know what they're doing.

Ashley (or whoever) could look at Reading and think - "Ok, i'll need to pay £15m up front and £20m for the stadium, and we'll probably get relegated to L2 next season. But then given 3-4 seasons with me funding the side around £5m a year, we could be back in the Championship. Then all it takes it's one decent push, one good season, and we're in the PL and the club is worth £150m. Not too bad a gamble really.

Having parties interested in buying the club isn’t the issue, it’s the ridiculous asking price from the sound of it

It wouldn’t take a lot to make it a relatively successful club again as you say

[Elm Park Kid]

The point with Reading is that a buyer is paying for the potential, rather than the current reality.

There are lots of clubs that will never have the fan base or infrastructure to develop into a self-sustaining 'big team'. Reading does have that potential - it's got a large catchment area, a stadium that is good enough all the way up to the PL and a location that is appealing to players and third parties. And it's not *that* expensive to buy your way out of either League One or Two, especially if you're employing people that know what they're doing.

Ashley (or whoever) could look at Reading and think - "Ok, i'll need to pay £15m up front and £20m for the stadium, and we'll probably get relegated to L2 next season. But then given 3-4 seasons with me funding the side around £5m a year, we could be back in the Championship. Then all it takes it's one decent push, one good season, and we're in the PL and the club is worth £150m. Not too bad a gamble really.

Having parties interested in buying the club isn’t the issue, it’s the ridiculous asking price from the sound of it

It wouldn’t take a lot to make it a relatively successful club again as you say

Yeah, I was more arguing the short term points deductions etc aren't going to be a big deterrent.

[Stranded]

The point with Reading is that a buyer is paying for the potential, rather than the current reality.

There are lots of clubs that will never have the fan base or infrastructure to develop into a self-sustaining 'big team'. Reading does have that potential - it's got a large catchment area, a stadium that is good enough all the way up to the PL and a location that is appealing to players and third parties. And it's not *that* expensive to buy your way out of either League One or Two, especially if you're employing people that know what they're doing.

Ashley (or whoever) could look at Reading and think - "Ok, i'll need to pay £15m up front and £20m for the stadium, and we'll probably get relegated to L2 next season. But then given 3-4 seasons with me funding the side around £5m a year, we could be back in the Championship. Then all it takes it's one decent push, one good season, and we're in the PL and the club is worth £150m. Not too bad a gamble really.

Having parties interested in buying the club isn’t the issue, it’s the ridiculous asking price from the sound of it

It wouldn’t take a lot to make it a relatively successful club again as you say

Well quite - if a deal can be done at 35m for club and stadium, then it may well have already been done. At the moment, that price doesn't seem to be somewhere Dai is willing to go but the price an owner is willing to go to will in part be down to want division we are going to be in. If we are in L1 it is one less year of funding to get to the PL value mentioned.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Sod all this. I'm off to download football manager so I can enter an alternative reality where we get bought out quickly and none of this shit happens. Can also ditch 4222 too. See you in the Premier League.

[Mr Angry]

My gut feel is that this is only going to end one way; administration.

The only alternative is for a buyer to come in and pay Dai's asking price, buy the stadium and the training ground and also pay off the debts - and I genuinely cannot see anyone doing that.

[Sutekh]

Sod all this. I'm off to download football manager so I can enter an alternative reality where we get bought out quickly and none of this shit happens. Can also ditch 4222 too. See you in the Premier League.

Can you stream it too? Bound to be a better watch.

[Royalwaster]

Sod all this. I'm off to download football manager so I can enter an alternative reality where we get bought out quickly and none of this shit happens. Can also ditch 4222 too. See you in the Premier League.

Can you stream it too? Bound to be a better watch.

And set up a fans forum where we can have a poll on whether you should be sacked or not?!

[On Strings]

Sod all this. I'm off to download football manager so I can enter an alternative reality where we get bought out quickly and none of this shit happens. Can also ditch 4222 too. See you in the Premier League.

Can you still use the editor when downloading via Steam? I think Reading may need a cash injection...