CONFIMRED - The final countdown

[Snowflake Royal]

Haven't most offers been structured so that Dai gets bonuses based upon promotion back to the Championship and even the PL? So even if he's selfish and greedy, it makes sense to sell to someone ambitious who has a plan.

But it this is the true version of events, the part of the Couhig sale that doesn't make sense is how it got so far.

How does anyone know how any deals have been structured ?
This looks like a case of wild speculation becoming, in some minds, accepted fact.

Claims it was what Dai wanted. And as you say, all this speculation and rumours gets talked to death until they become fact by default.

[Sutekh]

Anyone good, who intends to start running us properly and not just be another boom and bust debt merchant is going to have to make unpopular decisions and cuts, because we're a League One club running a Premier League Academy and Training Ground with a Championship stadium.

It's utterly unsustainable. It becomes a lot more manageable if we make a quick return to the Championship and stick it, but so much damage has been done that's going to be hard. Especially with a block on transfer spending not due to left until later this year.

We're still in a better place with a shorttermist big spender, because they could hardly spend less wisely than Dai, and they can't pay fees for a while yet, but it would be nice to be run so we aren't losing buckets of millions a year, because that just means we'll be right back here in 5 - 15 years.

Agreed, just have to hope that whoever new owner is sees the sense of the Academy and is willing to wear the cost for a season or so before binning it, at least then you can say they gave it a fair go on their watch. If the worst does come to the worst, all the facilities are there just mothballed waiting to be switched on again.

[Mr Angry]

It's a tricky one; yes, the Academy is expensive to run, but - it could be argued - it has literally saved Reading FC over these past 2 or 3 Years of utter turmoil and desperation.

Additionally, if we are to be sustainable in the longer run, I would suggest that having an effective Academy attracting top young talent from around the area (rather than losing out to the likes of Southampton.....) would be a smart investment, as not only can it produce a steady stream of L1/Championship players who can play for us or be transferred for decent money, it will also occasionally produce a multi-million £ superstar.

Personally, I think thats a better business model than spaffing a similar amount of money that it costs to run the Academy on a couple of players every season (transfer & signing on fees, wages etc) who may - or may not - come good for us.

Additionally, as a fan, I take greater pride out of an Academy lad coming through from the ranks and making it with us, than a journeyman pro with 5 or 6 clubs already to his name and another 3 or 4 to come after his spell with us ends. One of the few positives that we have seen over the last couple of seasons (post Shrewsbury away last season especially) is the togetherness that there has been in the squad and how it feels that they - and the fans - are all in this together. Those scenes away at Bristol Rovers last season epitomises that spirit.

[WestYorksRoyal]

It's a tricky one; yes, the Academy is expensive to run, but - it could be argued - it has literally saved Reading FC over these past 2 or 3 Years of utter turmoil and desperation.

Additionally, if we are to be sustainable in the longer run, I would suggest that having an effective Academy attracting top young talent from around the area (rather than losing out to the likes of Southampton.....) would be a smart investment, as not only can it produce a steady stream of L1/Championship players who can play for us or be transferred for decent money, it will also occasionally produce a multi-million £ superstar.

Personally, I think thats a better business model than spaffing a similar amount of money that it costs to run the Academy on a couple of players every season (transfer & signing on fees, wages etc) who may - or may not - come good for us.

Additionally, as a fan, I take greater pride out of an Academy lad coming through from the ranks and making it with us, than a journeyman pro with 5 or 6 clubs already to his name and another 3 or 4 to come after his spell with us ends. One of the few positives that we have seen over the last couple of seasons (post Shrewsbury away last season especially) is the togetherness that there has been in the squad and how it feels that they - and the fans - are all in this together. Those scenes away at Bristol Rovers last season epitomises that spirit.

Our model since Dai stopped paying the bills is basically the blueprint. Recruit cheap, use the academy, develop players, sell for a profit. With proper stability, we can be even smarter. For example, we could have given Bindon a 3 year deal last summer and commanded a big fee for him in the next 12 - 18 months.

Cutting back the academy is penny wise and pound foolish.

[Snowflake Royal]

It's a tricky one; yes, the Academy is expensive to run, but - it could be argued - it has literally saved Reading FC over these past 2 or 3 Years of utter turmoil and desperation.

Additionally, if we are to be sustainable in the longer run, I would suggest that having an effective Academy attracting top young talent from around the area (rather than losing out to the likes of Southampton.....) would be a smart investment, as not only can it produce a steady stream of L1/Championship players who can play for us or be transferred for decent money, it will also occasionally produce a multi-million £ superstar.

Personally, I think thats a better business model than spaffing a similar amount of money that it costs to run the Academy on a couple of players every season (transfer & signing on fees, wages etc) who may - or may not - come good for us.

Additionally, as a fan, I take greater pride out of an Academy lad coming through from the ranks and making it with us, than a journeyman pro with 5 or 6 clubs already to his name and another 3 or 4 to come after his spell with us ends. One of the few positives that we have seen over the last couple of seasons (post Shrewsbury away last season especially) is the togetherness that there has been in the squad and how it feels that they - and the fans - are all in this together. Those scenes away at Bristol Rovers last season epitomises that spirit.

At the risk of people getting snotty again, I agree. Any downgrading and cost cutting should certainly only be temporary, and for a few years at leasts shouldn't do too much damage... we won't keep attracting the same quality of players into the Academy, and holding on to them long if we're in L1, whether we maintain Cat1 status or not. A most of those currently coming through would hopefully recognise that staying even with a downgrade still gives them a good pathway to professional first team football. At least those anywhere near the first team level.

[Sutekh]

It's a tricky one; yes, the Academy is expensive to run, but - it could be argued - it has literally saved Reading FC over these past 2 or 3 Years of utter turmoil and desperation.

Additionally, if we are to be sustainable in the longer run, I would suggest that having an effective Academy attracting top young talent from around the area (rather than losing out to the likes of Southampton.....) would be a smart investment, as not only can it produce a steady stream of L1/Championship players who can play for us or be transferred for decent money, it will also occasionally produce a multi-million £ superstar.

Personally, I think thats a better business model than spaffing a similar amount of money that it costs to run the Academy on a couple of players every season (transfer & signing on fees, wages etc) who may - or may not - come good for us.

Additionally, as a fan, I take greater pride out of an Academy lad coming through from the ranks and making it with us, than a journeyman pro with 5 or 6 clubs already to his name and another 3 or 4 to come after his spell with us ends. One of the few positives that we have seen over the last couple of seasons (post Shrewsbury away last season especially) is the togetherness that there has been in the squad and how it feels that they - and the fans - are all in this together. Those scenes away at Bristol Rovers last season epitomises that spirit.

At the risk of people getting snotty again, I agree. Any downgrading and cost cutting should certainly only be temporary, and for a few years at leasts shouldn't do too much damage... we won't keep attracting the same quality of players into the Academy, and holding on to them long if we're in L1, whether we maintain Cat1 status or not. A most of those currently coming through would hopefully recognise that staying even with a downgrade still gives them a good pathway to professional first team football. At least those anywhere near the first team level.

L1 would give more opportunity to break into the 1st team whereas the Championship would be a lot harder. If everything was normal for the last few years at Reading and the club hadn’t have been relegated (it was only the points deduction that sent them down), how many of the recent Academy debuts would have been made at the higher level? Bindon may have been added to the Academy and got on the bench a few times, Azeez would probably still be here but beyond that could you see Wareham or Akande, Kanu, Holzman, Garcia, Vickers and Camara playing in anything other than the odd cup game?

[Hound]

I’d be interested to know a few things before really having an opinion on downgrading - ie how much does it actually save to downgrade for a few years, who would be losing their job as a result, are there any Olise like potential stars in the younger age group who may leave if we downgraded, and just how much it’s cost us last few years

It’s undoubtedly saved the club last few years and I’d be quite sad to change something that has been a huge success

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I’d be interested to know a few things before really having an opinion on downgrading - ie how much does it actually save to downgrade for a few years, who would be losing their job as a result, are there any Olise like potential stars in the younger age group who may leave if we downgraded, and just how much it’s cost us last few years

It’s undoubtedly saved the club last few years and I’d be quite sad to change something that has been a huge success

It's also saved the club by keeping us in League 1 last season.

[Royal Ginger]

It’s also possible that the well is empty and there’s nothing coming down the decimated pipeline. Stories of the younger years of the academy being chaos last year must certainly have a knock-on down the line.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’d be interested to know a few things before really having an opinion on downgrading - ie how much does it actually save to downgrade for a few years, who would be losing their job as a result, are there any Olise like potential stars in the younger age group who may leave if we downgraded, and just how much it’s cost us last few years

It’s undoubtedly saved the club last few years and I’d be quite sad to change something that has been a huge success

It's also saved the club by keeping us in League 1 last season.

Downgrading doesn't mean everyone currently in it disappears and gets replaced with much worse players.

As for Hound's question, how it affects the players in the system is the great unknown, obviously there'd be staff job losses, which is terrible, but we're talking about business decisions for a business in trouble, not the milk of human kindness and its just a reality that for businesses who've been spending 200% of their income and then seen that income reduced by 25% - 50%. No one wants to see it, but if we're talking hypothetically how to run the club, it's got to happen sooner or later.

I think the step from Cat two to Cat one funding is fairly heavy certainly from three to one, but I'd hope we wouldn’t cut that far that fast. If it comes to cuts, which seems likely.

I'd think we're talking minimum of £250k saving, maybe as high as £1m.

[From Despair To Where?]

Without really knowing what the academy costs, it's hard to really judge but I'd like to think the benefits of it outweigh the costs.

Obviously though, if it costs £5m+ a year, you have to question the sustainability of that in League 1.

[rabidbee]

When Dellor talked to Joe Jacobson a couple of months ago, he certainly talked the talk about the value of the academy and how important it would have been if the Couhig takeover had gone through.

[WestYorksRoyal]

I don't understand why any prospective owner would choose anything other than to go all in for the academy.

Our club has a lot going for it; location near London, massive catchment area, top training ground, reasonable stadium. All the potential is there, you just need a strategy to achieve it.

Well we also just happen to have one of the best academies in the country. It's the golden ticket to get us punching above our weight and growing as a club.

[Snowflake Royal]

I don't understand why any prospective owner would choose anything other than to go all in for the academy.

Our club has a lot going for it; location near London, massive catchment area, top training ground, reasonable stadium. All the potential is there, you just need a strategy to achieve it.

Well we also just happen to have one of the best academies in the country. It's the golden ticket to get us punching above our weight and growing as a club.

Because a Cat 1 Academy is somewhere between a quarter and half our entire yearly income.

[Crusader Royal]

I don't understand why any prospective owner would choose anything other than to go all in for the academy.

Our club has a lot going for it; location near London, massive catchment area, top training ground, reasonable stadium. All the potential is there, you just need a strategy to achieve it.

Well we also just happen to have one of the best academies in the country. It's the golden ticket to get us punching above our weight and growing as a club.

Because a Cat 1 Academy is somewhere between a quarter and half our entire yearly income.

Roughly what is our annual income ?
I’m sure it’s out there but hope you have it to hand !

[Hound]

There’s also no guarantee it will produce the level of player it has over the last 2-3 years

No reason it shouldn’t but you’d have to consider that

[Mid Sussex Royal]

There’s also no guarantee it will produce the level of player it has over the last 2-3 years

No reason it shouldn’t but you’d have to consider that

I think it pretty much has consistently produced though, its just we're seeing more in the first team now through necessity and a lower bar (L1).

Pretty sure if we were in L1 at the time Hyam, Dickie, Stacey et al were around they'd have been in the first team.

No idea how much we've made in sales against cost of running it but remember the £5m for Tshibola, last Jan sales, the kids sold to Man City etc......don't reckon its that far off breaking even.

[Snowflake Royal]

I don't understand why any prospective owner would choose anything other than to go all in for the academy.

Our club has a lot going for it; location near London, massive catchment area, top training ground, reasonable stadium. All the potential is there, you just need a strategy to achieve it.

Well we also just happen to have one of the best academies in the country. It's the golden ticket to get us punching above our weight and growing as a club.

Because a Cat 1 Academy is somewhere between a quarter and half our entire yearly income.

Roughly what is our annual income ?
I’m sure it’s out there but hope you have it to hand !

I would say roughly £10m

No accounts means it's an educated guess. Our attendance is in the top 10, and we're on TV a fair amount. Average L1 income was about £9m a couple of years ago according to a deloitte report iirc.

[Snowflake Royal]

There’s also no guarantee it will produce the level of player it has over the last 2-3 years

No reason it shouldn’t but you’d have to consider that

Yes , you certainly have to factor in that this quality of player was generally part of Championship status intakes.

We'd be towards the bottom of the pecking order for recruiting Cat 1 level youngsters now.

[Crusader Royal]

There’s also no guarantee it will produce the level of player it has over the last 2-3 years

No reason it shouldn’t but you’d have to consider that

Yes , you certainly have to factor in that this quality of player was generally part of Championship status intakes.

We'd be towards the bottom of the pecking order for recruiting Cat 1 level youngsters now.

We’ve been about the lowest ranked Cat 1 club for ages but recruitment is more subtle than everyone wanting to join Liverpool’s academy.
We’ve fished heavily in the extremely fertile London waters. There are loads of talented kids who get cut from the bigger club’s academies each year and we’re a great option for them. Being close to London means they don’t have to move but not being in London is actually a positive for quite a few ( see interview with Tish a while ago about getting away from negative influences on many estates).
We provide top facilities, we have a proven path to the first team but we need to ensure we have top coaching .
For many the Olise example is a more realistic one than the Foden one. Aim to be the standout player in a smaller pond and get a move rather than try and compete with the elite and get lost.