CONFIMRED - The final countdown

[WestYorksRoyal]

Dai has to know that he either sells now, or is sat on something that will be utterly valueless at the end of the season.

Worst case scenario as I see it is that we drop down to National League South.

Most recent comparison Bury are currently in the North West Counties league which is tier 9.....and they were kicked out a few years ago.

Haven’t there been complaints about big phoenix clubs that low down the pyramid? Clubs just aren't set up to handle 1500 away fans, which we would achieve fairly consistently due to the league being regional. Isn't there a health and safety argument that NL South can handle us better?

[Crusader Royal]

That is still an ownership model. The test would assess whether you have suitable governance to control funds earned through revenue and provided by members, and that nobody on your committee has bankruptcy on their file, criminal convictions etc.

Why should having a criminal conviction stop you being on a football club committee ? Likewise bankruptcy ? You’d probably not want someone who has been bankrupt as your treasurer but no reason why they can’t be a perfectly good match secretary… clubs already have to account to members for their finances, you publish accounts that are audited.
It’s hard enough for clubs to get dedicated committee members already, start putting unnecessary regulation in place and you’ll send perfectly good clubs to the wall.
Yiu also have to find someone to carry out these thousands of checks, the FL don’t have the people to do th8ngs properly and the lower leagues for sure have neither the people or funds to do it.

Because it's evidence of dishonesty. Same reason it's relevant for the owner of a club.

Don’t think owners are barred because of a criminal conviction are they ? Just fraud. Barring an owner for a driving offence would be crazy.

[stealthpapes]

Dai has to know that he either sells now, or is sat on something that will be utterly valueless at the end of the season.

Worst case scenario as I see it is that we drop down to National League South.

Most recent comparison Bury are currently in the North West Counties league which is tier 9.....and they were kicked out a few years ago.

Bury had to deal with the two pheonix clubs issue.
I think starting their journey in the 2020-21 season didn't help either.

[Crusader Royal]

The usual governance model for community owned clubs is a two-tier one - there is the "Membership Organisation" (Wimbledon ISA, Morton Club Together, Foundation of Hearts, Exeter City Supporters' Trust, Seadogs Trust, etc) which people belong to and contribute to, on the basis that no member has more than one vote. STAR was setup as an Industrial & Provident Society with this model in mind.

That membership organisation then owns various assets, such as football ground, football club, training ground etc etc - they appoint the directors, but each of these is a separate company in its own right, it's just owned by the membership organisation, that appoints directors and sets the direction.

But legally the directors of the Football Club Company are the ones who will need to be vetted etc (and, incidentally, be banned from placing football bets!), and legally they are a quite different company from the membership organisation that owns the majority of their shares.

Again, that doesn’t work for many non league clubs. We aren’t a company, we don’t have directors, we don’t have shareholders.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Why should having a criminal conviction stop you being on a football club committee ? Likewise bankruptcy ? You’d probably not want someone who has been bankrupt as your treasurer but no reason why they can’t be a perfectly good match secretary… clubs already have to account to members for their finances, you publish accounts that are audited.
It’s hard enough for clubs to get dedicated committee members already, start putting unnecessary regulation in place and you’ll send perfectly good clubs to the wall.
Yiu also have to find someone to carry out these thousands of checks, the FL don’t have the people to do th8ngs properly and the lower leagues for sure have neither the people or funds to do it.

Because it's evidence of dishonesty. Same reason it's relevant for the owner of a club.

Don’t think owners are barred because of a criminal conviction are they ? Just fraud. Barring an owner for a driving offence would be crazy.

Maybe should clarify unspent criminal conviction, which would be an automatic DQ. Not sure what the rules on spent convictions is, but I suspect they could be disqualifying if considered relevant (e.g., fraud as you say)

[Dirk Gently]

The usual governance model for community owned clubs is a two-tier one - there is the "Membership Organisation" (Wimbledon ISA, Morton Club Together, Foundation of Hearts, Exeter City Supporters' Trust, Seadogs Trust, etc) which people belong to and contribute to, on the basis that no member has more than one vote. STAR was setup as an Industrial & Provident Society with this model in mind.

That membership organisation then owns various assets, such as football ground, football club, training ground etc etc - they appoint the directors, but each of these is a separate company in its own right, it's just owned by the membership organisation, that appoints directors and sets the direction.

But legally the directors of the Football Club Company are the ones who will need to be vetted etc (and, incidentally, be banned from placing football bets!), and legally they are a quite different company from the membership organisation that owns the majority of their shares.

Again, that doesn’t work for many non league clubs. We aren’t a company, we don’t have directors, we don’t have shareholders.

Agreed, you need to be of a certain scale to make the extra legal governance worthwhile, but I'd say if you own assets you really need a proper arms-length leal structure - some non-league clubs have come a croper legally when they've got into financial difficulties and didn't have a robust ownership model over their ground.

[Dirk Gently]

Because it's evidence of dishonesty. Same reason it's relevant for the owner of a club.

Don’t think owners are barred because of a criminal conviction are they ? Just fraud. Barring an owner for a driving offence would be crazy.

Maybe should clarify unspent criminal conviction, which would be an automatic DQ. Not sure what the rules on spent convictions is, but I suspect they could be disqualifying if considered relevant (e.g., fraud as you say)

The rules are here, listing specific convictions, etc :

In order to determine whether or not a Person is eligible to act as a Director, the League needs to identify if the Person is subject to a Disqualifying Event. If the League considers that a Person is subject to a Disqualifying Event, then it confirms as such to the Club and the Person, and the Person will not be permitted to take up the role. Disqualifying Events include (but are not limited to) the following:

They have an “interest” in more than one Club.
They are banned by a sport’s governing body (worldwide).
They are found to have committed a breach of the prohibition on betting on football in England and Wales.
They have unspent convictions for offences of dishonesty, corruption, perverting the course of justice, serious breaches of the Companies Act or conspiracy to commit any of those offences.
They have unspent conviction for any offence that resulted in a sentence of imprisonment of 12 months or more.
They are struck off by a professional governing body e.g. the Law Society.
They are being a registered sex offender.
They have been convicted of a Hate Crime, which is defined as an offence that is considered to be aggravated in accordance with the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and the Sentencing Act 2020.
They are being subject to an Individual Voluntary Arrangement or Bankrupt.
They have been convicted for fraud of any kind.
They have been a director of a football club which has suffered two insolvency events past June 2004 or separate football clubs which have each suffered an insolvency event past June 2004.
They are disqualified under the Company Directors Disqualification Action 1986 (or having given an equivalent undertaking).

In addition to the above Disqualifying Events, EFL Clubs also agreed on 8 June 2023 to include some further Disqualifying Events in order to strengthen the OADT. These new Disqualifying Events include (but are not limited to) the following:

They have been removed as a trustee of a pension scheme by the Pensions’ Regulator or the Courts.
They have been expelled from sporting clubs in other sports (eg Rugby) as the League does for other Clubs.
They represent a state entity from countries which are sanctioned or are subject to sanctions themselves.
They have been convicted of a violent offence, irrespective of whether it resulted in an unsuspended sentence of at least 12 months’ imprisonment.
They are having second (or further) bankruptcies/convictions/bans, even if expired or spent.
They have been a director of a company (excluding football clubs) which has suffered two insolvency events, or separate companies which have each suffered an insolvency event.

The disqualifying events also extend to equivalent situations in foreign countries.

[Snowflake Royal]

The usual governance model for community owned clubs is a two-tier one - there is the "Membership Organisation" (Wimbledon ISA, Morton Club Together, Foundation of Hearts, Exeter City Supporters' Trust, Seadogs Trust, etc) which people belong to and contribute to, on the basis that no member has more than one vote. STAR was setup as an Industrial & Provident Society with this model in mind.

That membership organisation then owns various assets, such as football ground, football club, training ground etc etc - they appoint the directors, but each of these is a separate company in its own right, it's just owned by the membership organisation, that appoints directors and sets the direction.

But legally the directors of the Football Club Company are the ones who will need to be vetted etc (and, incidentally, be banned from placing football bets!), and legally they are a quite different company from the membership organisation that owns the majority of their shares.

Again, that doesn’t work for many non league clubs. We aren’t a company, we don’t have directors, we don’t have shareholders.

Maybe you should change your structure for the wider good of the game then.

[Crusader Royal]

The usual governance model for community owned clubs is a two-tier one - there is the "Membership Organisation" (Wimbledon ISA, Morton Club Together, Foundation of Hearts, Exeter City Supporters' Trust, Seadogs Trust, etc) which people belong to and contribute to, on the basis that no member has more than one vote. STAR was setup as an Industrial & Provident Society with this model in mind.

That membership organisation then owns various assets, such as football ground, football club, training ground etc etc - they appoint the directors, but each of these is a separate company in its own right, it's just owned by the membership organisation, that appoints directors and sets the direction.

But legally the directors of the Football Club Company are the ones who will need to be vetted etc (and, incidentally, be banned from placing football bets!), and legally they are a quite different company from the membership organisation that owns the majority of their shares.

Again, that doesn’t work for many non league clubs. We aren’t a company, we don’t have directors, we don’t have shareholders.

Maybe you should change your structure for the wider good of the game then.

Typical league club supporter response ! The thousands of clubs outside the FL don’t need to be put through hoops to help out the big boys…..
We’re proud to be a proper members club !

[Sutekh]

The usual governance model for community owned clubs is a two-tier one - there is the "Membership Organisation" (Wimbledon ISA, Morton Club Together, Foundation of Hearts, Exeter City Supporters' Trust, Seadogs Trust, etc) which people belong to and contribute to, on the basis that no member has more than one vote. STAR was setup as an Industrial & Provident Society with this model in mind.

That membership organisation then owns various assets, such as football ground, football club, training ground etc etc - they appoint the directors, but each of these is a separate company in its own right, it's just owned by the membership organisation, that appoints directors and sets the direction.

But legally the directors of the Football Club Company are the ones who will need to be vetted etc (and, incidentally, be banned from placing football bets!), and legally they are a quite different company from the membership organisation that owns the majority of their shares.

Again, that doesn’t work for many non league clubs. We aren’t a company, we don’t have directors, we don’t have shareholders.

[leon]

Gents - maybe start a phoenix club thread? I keep checking in hoping for some updates and well you know.....

[Hendo]

Gents - maybe start a phoenix club thread? I keep checking in hoping for some updates and well you know.....

Annoying, isn't it?

[Snowflake Royal]

Welcome to HNA guys, didn't realise we were still getting newbies

[tmesis]

Dai has to know that he either sells now, or is sat on something that will be utterly valueless at the end of the season.

Worst case scenario as I see it is that we drop down to National League South.

Most recent comparison Bury are currently in the North West Counties league which is tier 9.....and they were kicked out a few years ago.

Bury had to deal with the two pheonix clubs issue.
I think starting their journey in the 2020-21 season didn't help either.

I think there was only one phoenix club. Bury FC didn't fold immediately, but limped on with no ground, players, or league to play in.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Gents - maybe start a phoenix club thread? I keep checking in hoping for some updates and well you know.....

Annoying, isn't it?

+1.

[Lower West]

Why should having a criminal conviction stop you being on a football club committee ? Likewise bankruptcy ? You’d probably not want someone who has been bankrupt as your treasurer but no reason why they can’t be a perfectly good match secretary… clubs already have to account to members for their finances, you publish accounts that are audited.
It’s hard enough for clubs to get dedicated committee members already, start putting unnecessary regulation in place and you’ll send perfectly good clubs to the wall.
Yiu also have to find someone to carry out these thousands of checks, the FL don’t have the people to do th8ngs properly and the lower leagues for sure have neither the people or funds to do it.

Because it's evidence of dishonesty. Same reason it's relevant for the owner of a club.

Don’t think owners are barred because of a criminal conviction are they ? Just fraud. Barring an owner for a driving offence would be crazy.

Dai has committed fraud. It's on the public record.

[Hendo]

Gents - maybe start a phoenix club thread? I keep checking in hoping for some updates and well you know.....

Annoying, isn't it?

+1.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

I think we’ll be saved tbh. Hopefully by Platek, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Couhig ends up owning us.

If not, at least this oxf*rd nightmare will be over and I will look forward to visiting some new grounds with the Phoenix club.

It might be the great reset we need!

[Crusader Royal]

Gents - maybe start a phoenix club thread? I keep checking in hoping for some updates and well you know.....

That would be for talking about a phoenix club though….
This has been about where an RFC expelled from the FL may or may not be able to go.

[El Diablo]

Am I right in thinking Couhig only has security over Bearwood and the Stadium? So Dai could sell the club to Platek now and kick the can down on the road on the real estate assets until the court case in June has occurred?

Correct.

I mean, he could sell the lot, all he has to do is put enough of the proceeds in Escrow to cover the potential court outcome. Why delay selling part of the club when you can do that.

Coz Dai hates losing and will battle it out to the end. Same goes for Couhig.

And in-between time he could lease the stadium/training ground to who ever ends up with the Club.

Nothing would surprise me right now