Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Sutekh]

]

Very unpopular for wasting millions of tax payers money on a club 99.9% of country couldn't give a flying oxf*rd about

I'm seeing this more like seizing all of the owners assets in this country, If the government can seize the stadium and training ground and null and void any claims Chinese banks have on them then they can make a nice profit selling them to the next owner of Reading Football Club which would more than cover any tax owed.

This government love unpopularity though so it could be a goer.

[Forbury Lion]

]

I'm seeing this more like seizing all of the owners assets in this country, If the government can seize the stadium and training ground and null and void any claims Chinese banks have on them then they can make a nice profit selling them to the next owner of Reading Football Club which would more than cover any tax owed.

On what legal basis?

Probably require a new law unless it can be a proceeds of crime scenario or something

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Serious question, probably wrong thread but we have the supposed 4th lowest wages bill in the league and are amongst the better supported sides. In addition, the Sky money is much higher this year as are the Premier League payments yet we cannot afford to maintain the pitch properly. Why are we still losing so much money?

Is this solely down to the academy costs?

[Snowflake Royal]

Serious question, probably wrong thread but we have the supposed 4th lowest wages bill in the league and are amongst the better supported sides. In addition, the Sky money is much higher this year as are the Premier League payments yet we cannot afford to maintain the pitch properly. Why are we still losing so much money?

Is this solely down to the academy costs?

Where have you got that our wages are 4th lowest? That sound mad. I'd have thought top 10. There is no way our wages are lower than at least one or Burton, Crawley, Shrewsbury and Cambridge.

Our income is roughly £10m (average L1 income in 2023 ish was £9m and our attendances are high for the league).

The Academy costs something like £1m to £3m a year.

Button, Savage, Elliott, Knibbs and Wing are unlikely to have arrived on small wages for the division. Mbengue, Craig, Yiadom arrived in the Champ, so are unlikely to have low L1 wages.

Our accounts haven't been published since we got relegated.

I suspect at least part of the issue is cash flow... most ticket sales money arrives early season. TV money etc arrives in chucks, not smoothly I think.

We're also likely still paying for people we've paid off from longer contracts, like Ince, Bouzanis, maybe even Carroll. We're probably paying loads servicing old loans or something.

[Sutekh]

Serious question, probably wrong thread but we have the supposed 4th lowest wages bill in the league and are amongst the better supported sides. In addition, the Sky money is much higher this year as are the Premier League payments yet we cannot afford to maintain the pitch properly. Why are we still losing so much money?

Is this solely down to the academy costs?

Where have you got that our wages are 4th lowest? That sound mad. I'd have thought top 10. There is no way our wages are lower than at least one or Burton, Crawley, Shrewsbury and Cambridge.

Our income is roughly £10m (average L1 income in 2023 ish was £9m and our attendances are high for the league).

The Academy costs something like £1m to £3m a year.

Button, Savage, Elliott, Knibbs and Wing are unlikely to have arrived on small wages for the division. Mbengue, Craig, Yiadom arrived in the Champ, so are unlikely to have low L1 wages.

Our accounts haven't been published since we got relegated.

I suspect at least part of the issue is cash flow... most ticket sales money arrives early season. TV money etc arrives in chucks, not smoothly I think.

We're also likely still paying for people we've paid off from longer contracts, like Ince, Bouzanis, maybe even Carroll. We're probably paying loads servicing old loans or something.

Be interesting to see if new owners would have a reasonably open and transparent approach on the finance side and would be OK in disclosing one or two pointers in the area of “where the money goes” each month.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Serious question, probably wrong thread but we have the supposed 4th lowest wages bill in the league and are amongst the better supported sides. In addition, the Sky money is much higher this year as are the Premier League payments yet we cannot afford to maintain the pitch properly. Why are we still losing so much money?

Is this solely down to the academy costs?

Where have you got that our wages are 4th lowest? That sound mad. I'd have thought top 10. There is no way our wages are lower than at least one or Burton, Crawley, Shrewsbury and Cambridge.
.

Peterborough, Exeter & Crawley are lower than us.

I can believe what has been posted on this on social media; need to remember how many senior L1 players we have, even compared to the likes of Cambridge.

And on senior players' contracts Wing took a pay cut from what he was on at Wycombe.

[Snowflake Royal]

Serious question, probably wrong thread but we have the supposed 4th lowest wages bill in the league and are amongst the better supported sides. In addition, the Sky money is much higher this year as are the Premier League payments yet we cannot afford to maintain the pitch properly. Why are we still losing so much money?

Is this solely down to the academy costs?

Where have you got that our wages are 4th lowest? That sound mad. I'd have thought top 10. There is no way our wages are lower than at least one or Burton, Crawley, Shrewsbury and Cambridge.
.

Peterborough, Exeter & Crawley are lower than us.

I can believe what has been posted on this on social media; need to remember how many senior L1 players we have, even compared to the likes of Cambridge.

And on senior players' contracts Wing took a pay cut from what he was on at Wycombe.

There is absolutely no way this can be true.

You can't trust reading things on social media.

I just checked two different websites for us and Cambridge, which purport to trawl press releases, online databases and experts for wages.

One said ours was £3m and Smith our highest earner, another said £5m and Dean. Cambridge also had different highest earners and different wage bills by about £2m. Which is a vast margin for error on a max total listed of 5-6 mil.

Online figures are pure guesswork, except where they quote total wage bills listed in published accounts.

[stealthpapes]

Just for info, I've just seen this which puts us in 4th from bottom.
No idea what the provenance is but at least there's something that can be verified.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Just for info, I've just seen this which puts us in 4th from bottom.
No idea what the provenance is but at least there's something that can be verified.

I've seen it too. No idea how they can corroborate it, it's not like these figures are readily available, particularly as nobody has published accounts for this financial year yet.

[Snowflake Royal]

Just for info, I've just seen this which puts us in 4th from bottom.
No idea what the provenance is but at least there's something that can be verified.

Salary sport is one of the websites I checked it has a disclaimer that makes it clear its guesswork.

[Clyde1998]

Just for info, I've just seen this which puts us in 4th from bottom.
No idea what the provenance is but at least there's something that can be verified.

Salary sport is one of the websites I checked it has a disclaimer that makes it clear its guesswork.

The only way we know what salaries are actually paid is through the accounts - but those include youth players, all staff wages, bonuses, etc. and are only published after the season finishes.

Also, there'll a huge difference between basic salaries, player bonuses (like win bonuses and appearance fees) and club bonuses (like getting promoted or staying in the division). Birmingham may, for example, be paying lower basic salaries than people think, but may have big promotion bonuses. Different clubs will have balances between these things depending on what their strategy is.

[Winston Biscuit]

Just for info, I've just seen this which puts us in 4th from bottom.
No idea what the provenance is but at least there's something that can be verified.

Salary sport is one of the websites I checked it has a disclaimer that makes it clear its guesswork.

The only way we know what salaries are actually paid is through the accounts - but those include youth players, all staff wages, bonuses, etc. and are only published after the season finishes.

Also, there'll a huge difference between basic salaries, player bonuses (like win bonuses and appearance fees) and club bonuses (like getting promoted or staying in the division). Birmingham may, for example, be paying lower basic salaries than people think, but may have big promotion bonuses. Different clubs will have balances between these things depending on what their strategy is.

agreed. wages (and transfers) fluctuate hugely based on all sorts of criteria, so much so that no one on the outside really knows what they are being paid. One small example - win bonuses can vary quite a bit depending on where the team sit in the table after the win, and then for those subbed on and off in a winning match, the bonus differs depending on what minute they come on/leave at. these details are all agreed at the start of each season and are then calculated as they go through the season and paid as a bonus at the end.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

I thought there was a maximum wage imposed by the EFL on reading as part of their sanctions. As this would apply to everyone part from (I think) Yiadom, you could assume this was what Savage, Wing, Knibbs are on, less for anyone else, and arrive at a reasonable guess of what our wage bill is.

[Snowflake Royal]

I thought there was a maximum wage imposed by the EFL on reading as part of their sanctions. As this would apply to everyone part from (I think) Yiadom, you could assume this was what Savage, Wing, Knibbs are on, less for anyone else, and arrive at a reasonable guess of what our wage bill is.

Think that applied on previous champ seasons not now

[Linden Jones' Tash]

STAR meeting summary reports that Reading's monthly wage commitment nets out at around £1M a month (+/- with win bonuses)

That's ~ £12M a year.

Other commitments ~£320k a month

Outgoings = £15.84M

They also reported that income (excluding player sales) to end of December (presumably April-Dec) was £4.9M

So the maths is pretty obvious...

https://x.com/STARReading/status/1904885945624572280

[PieEater]

That £12m wage bill is staggering given our squad is made up of a lot of academy players or freebies. Are we still playing wages for players who have long since left?

[Snowflake Royal]

STAR meeting summary reports that Reading's monthly wage commitment nets out at around £1M a month (+/- with win bonuses)

That's ~ £12M a year.

Other commitments ~£320k a month

Outgoings = £15.84M

They also reported that income (excluding player sales) to end of December (presumably April-Dec) was £4.9M

So the maths is pretty obvious...

https://x.com/STARReading/status/1904885945624572280

But we have one of the lowest wage bills in League one at £3m - £5m - all the football websites say so... they can't possibly just be making it up

[Linden Jones' Tash]

STAR meeting summary reports that Reading's monthly wage commitment nets out at around £1M a month (+/- with win bonuses)

That's ~ £12M a year.

Other commitments ~£320k a month

Outgoings = £15.84M

They also reported that income (excluding player sales) to end of December (presumably April-Dec) was £4.9M

So the maths is pretty obvious...

https://x.com/STARReading/status/1904885945624572280

But we have one of the lowest wage bills in League one at £3m - £5m - all the football websites say so... they can't possibly just be making it up

You can choose to believe who you like...

I'll go with STAR, given the calibre of the delegates who attended the meeting and the fact that those numbers aren't out of kilter with analogue clubs at this level...

[Snowflake Royal]

STAR meeting summary reports that Reading's monthly wage commitment nets out at around £1M a month (+/- with win bonuses)

That's ~ £12M a year.

Other commitments ~£320k a month

Outgoings = £15.84M

They also reported that income (excluding player sales) to end of December (presumably April-Dec) was £4.9M

So the maths is pretty obvious...

https://x.com/STARReading/status/1904885945624572280

But we have one of the lowest wage bills in League one at £3m - £5m - all the football websites say so... they can't possibly just be making it up

You can choose to believe who you like...

I'll go with STAR, given the calibre of the delegates who attended the meeting and the fact that those numbers aren't out of kilter with analogue clubs at this level...

Old school sarcasm whoosh, sorry

[Sutekh]

But we have one of the lowest wage bills in League one at £3m - £5m - all the football websites say so... they can't possibly just be making it up

You can choose to believe who you like...

I'll go with STAR, given the calibre of the delegates who attended the meeting and the fact that those numbers aren't out of kilter with analogue clubs at this level...

Old school sarcasm whoosh, sorry

Sorry, is that £1m a month commitment just the playing and coaching staff or does it include everybody still employed by the club? Thinking some of that number would be boosted by the likes of Pang, Bowen and other management types.