Guthrie reception thread/poll

[Big Ern]

I think some people get a bit carried away with Guthrie and his percieved abilities. Afterall he was a sub for most of the season at Newcastle last year and we expect him to be a world beater.

He is a good Prem player, better than Ledge, and Tabb and probably better than Karacan, but we will need better players than him if we are to avoid the drop.

[SPARTA]

I think some people get a bit carried away with Guthrie and his percieved abilities. Afterall he was a sub for most of the season at Newcastle last year and we expect him to be a world beater.

He is a good Prem player, better than Ledge, and Tabb and probably better than Karacan, but we will need better players than him if we are to avoid the drop.

It's not about getting carried away with him, it's about McDermott looking to flood the midfield with defensive midfielders and he is the only creative outlet we have!

[sandman]

Perhaps he's on a different wavelength to the other players.

Well, he is another Marek Matejovsky, I'll give you that.

If he doesn't fit into our system and our style of play, then why is he at the club?

Our system and style of play is the problem.

Or perhaps if he was as good as you lot say he is he'd be able to adapt his game to our system/style of play and use his supposed superior creative abilities (if he actually has them). At the moment it seems like his fan club are very eager to make excuses for him.

[GreaterTorontoRoyal]

Guthrie covered the most ground yesterday against Spurs yesterday at 6.61 miles.

[melonhead]

I think some people get a bit carried away with Guthrie and his percieved abilities. Afterall he was a sub for most of the season at Newcastle last year and we expect him to be a world beater.

He is a good Prem player, better than Ledge, and Tabb and probably better than Karacan, but we will need better players than him if we are to avoid the drop.

It's not about getting carried away with him, it's about McDermott looking to flood the midfield with defensive midfielders and he is the only creative outlet we have!

in the last few games, hes played, and has made at least as many errors with passes as ledge or karacan, ive still to see him create anything of any real note.
i like him. i want him to succeed. and i hope he improves with games, but hes not been very good. and theres only so much blaming your fellow players you can do.

[Ian Royal]

He might be a headless chicken but i'd rather have Jem than Gut(less)hrie. We've missed him more than we've missed Danny boy imo.

What we've missed is 5 in midfield. I really don't see a great deal of difference between Jem and Tabb. Not much point comparing Jem and Guthrie, they're in the team to do totally different things. But if you want to compare them, here's some passing and defensive stats. So Karacan runs around a lot, but he doesn't actually put in a great deal more successful defensive work to clear our lines or win the ball than Guthrie. At least, work that can easily be quantified by stats. Which obviously are far from the be all and end all.

You'd do yourself a lot more favours if you didn't just decide to slag off players that other people rate for the sake of it to champion ones that you feel don't get a good enough hearing. You'd be better just championing the ones that you think need your support rather than stupidly and transparently belittling players of quality to point score.

Karacan - attempts 21.7 passes a game with a completion rate of 71.8%
Guthrie - attempts 33 passes a game with a completion rate of 77.8%

Defensively
Karacan - 2.4 tackles a game, 1.4 interceptions, clearances 0.9
Guthrie - 1.9 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions, clearances 0.9

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94

[cmonurz]

but hes not been very good.

At odds with what many have been saying.

[CayeneMatt]

He might be a headless chicken but i'd rather have Jem than Gut(less)hrie. We've missed him more than we've missed Danny boy imo.

What we've missed is 5 in midfield. I really don't see a great deal of difference between Jem and Tabb. Not much point comparing Jem and Guthrie, they're in the team to do totally different things. But if you want to compare them, here's some passing and defensive stats. So Karacan runs around a lot, but he doesn't actually put in a great deal more successful defensive work to clear our lines or win the ball than Guthrie. At least, work that can easily be quantified by stats. Which obviously are far from the be all and end all.

You'd do yourself a lot more favours if you didn't just decide to slag off players that other people rate for the sake of it to champion ones that you feel don't get a good enough hearing. You'd be better just championing the ones that you think need your support rather than stupidly and transparently belittling players of quality to point score.

Karacan - attempts 21.7 passes a game with a completion rate of 71.8%
Guthrie - attempts 33 passes a game with a completion rate of 77.8%

Defensively
Karacan - 2.4 tackles a game, 1.4 interceptions, clearances 0.9
Guthrie - 1.9 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions, clearances 0.9

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94

Stats? I think we just found Snowball's lovechild. (we know how close you 2 used to be )

[Ian Royal]

I think some people get a bit carried away with Guthrie and his percieved abilities. Afterall he was a sub for most of the season at Newcastle last year and we expect him to be a world beater.

He is a good Prem player, better than Ledge, and Tabb and probably better than Karacan, but we will need better players than him if we are to avoid the drop.

It's not about getting carried away with him, it's about McDermott looking to flood the midfield with defensive midfielders and he is the only creative outlet we have!

in the last few games, hes played, and has made at least as many errors with passes as ledge or karacan, ive still to see him create anything of any real note.
i like him. i want him to succeed. and i hope he improves with games, but hes not been very good. and theres only so much blaming your fellow players you can do.

He's been out of the side for ages and had all sorts of problems. Give him a while to settle in. We were never going to see a particularly great deal from him against Spurs because we were so overmatched. And it is likely to take a while for him and the team to adjust into the new formation and how he passes, because it is very different to our previous hit it at the channels and hope approach. But in general some of his passing was quite poor against Spurs, it certainly wasn't his best game, although he worked well defensively to make up for it.

[Ian Royal]

He might be a headless chicken but i'd rather have Jem than Gut(less)hrie. We've missed him more than we've missed Danny boy imo.

What we've missed is 5 in midfield. I really don't see a great deal of difference between Jem and Tabb. Not much point comparing Jem and Guthrie, they're in the team to do totally different things. But if you want to compare them, here's some passing and defensive stats. So Karacan runs around a lot, but he doesn't actually put in a great deal more successful defensive work to clear our lines or win the ball than Guthrie. At least, work that can easily be quantified by stats. Which obviously are far from the be all and end all.

You'd do yourself a lot more favours if you didn't just decide to slag off players that other people rate for the sake of it to champion ones that you feel don't get a good enough hearing. You'd be better just championing the ones that you think need your support rather than stupidly and transparently belittling players of quality to point score.

Karacan - attempts 21.7 passes a game with a completion rate of 71.8%
Guthrie - attempts 33 passes a game with a completion rate of 77.8%

Defensively
Karacan - 2.4 tackles a game, 1.4 interceptions, clearances 0.9
Guthrie - 1.9 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions, clearances 0.9

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94

Stats? I think we just found Snowball's lovechild. (we know how close you 2 used to be )

I've always used stats, just to back up my opinion and as a counter point to observation. I never try to pretend that they tell the whole picture. I've never complained about using stats, just the poor use of stats and the over-reliance on their importance.

Here's some more for you specifically from the Spurs game.

Karacan - pass accuracy 71%, touches 17, tackles 2, airial battles N/A
Guthrie - pass accuracy 74%, touches 50, tackles 2, airial battles 50%
Leigertwood - pass accuracy 79%, touches 69, tackles 5, airial battles 100%

Now clearly Karacan was subbed off and the others weren't. But he played more than half the match and it suggests who the weaker link was against Spurs in our midfield.

[sandman]

He might be a headless chicken but i'd rather have Jem than Gut(less)hrie. We've missed him more than we've missed Danny boy imo.

What we've missed is 5 in midfield. I really don't see a great deal of difference between Jem and Tabb. Not much point comparing Jem and Guthrie, they're in the team to do totally different things. But if you want to compare them, here's some passing and defensive stats. So Karacan runs around a lot, but he doesn't actually put in a great deal more successful defensive work to clear our lines or win the ball than Guthrie. At least, work that can easily be quantified by stats. Which obviously are far from the be all and end all.

You'd do yourself a lot more favours if you didn't just decide to slag off players that other people rate for the sake of it to champion ones that you feel don't get a good enough hearing. You'd be better just championing the ones that you think need your support rather than stupidly and transparently belittling players of quality to point score.

Karacan - attempts 21.7 passes a game with a completion rate of 71.8%
Guthrie - attempts 33 passes a game with a completion rate of 77.8%

Defensively
Karacan - 2.4 tackles a game, 1.4 interceptions, clearances 0.9
Guthrie - 1.9 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions, clearances 0.9

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/94

I'll stick up for players who are unfairly treated by people who attack them because they're not one of HNA?'s chosen few as much as I like and you lot can go swivel. I especially reserve the right to criticise a player who refused to play for the club I've supported from an early age and I don't care how many shallow apologies he has made that is unforgivcable. Guthrie has done nothing to justify the undying love he gets on here and his supposed superior passing abilities have been grossly over exaggerated. If Federici had pulled half the shit Guthrie has in the last two months you Ian Royal and your little pals would've had him crucified.

[Ian Royal]

Yeah, you're right. But Fed has been very well treated by us - Guthrie less so - and we (until McCarthy's injury) had a very adequate replacement ready and waiting. And I'm perfectly happy to admit that I just don't like Fed so I'm less forgiving of him. Although you might want to notice I've put him MotM for the last two games, so when he plays well I'm more than happy to say so. And I've defended him plenty in the past when he was getting unfair criticism. I'll also call it when he's shit though.

[LoyalRoyal22]

Guthrie is not brilliant, but is better than what we have. Hopefully he will get some form with a run off games