The only course of action now...

[CountryRoyal]

In patches we've produced better football then anything last year - Villa home, Derby away come to mind, but by and large we are far worse. Losing 7-1 and finishing 3rd > losing all the oxf*rd time.

[Stranded]

I think it is probably time for people to accept he isn't going anywhere, with the potential caveat of us dropping into the bottom 3, so it is time for those in a position to go to make 1 of 2 choices:

1) Get behind the team at the games, make for a positive atmosphere, ignore Stam and support the team.
2) stop going

Probably a coincidence but the teams best performances this season, appear to have been when the crowds have been at their smallest.

The owners appear to be happy to write this season off with the only target now being to stay up and go again probably with Stam.

[Hound]

apparently the squad are off to Spain for a bit of warm weather training

would have to think that would suggest there is little chance of Stam getting the boot this week, but I think we are expected that anyway.

Forest game is absolutely massive. Lets hope the break does them all some good

[rfc58]

That's technically not true, it's still well within our hands. Whether or not we have it in us to avoid a situation where we rely on other teams is subjective and tbf speculative.

Of course it’s still in our hands, but we are not making a good job of it, my comments are based on how things are playing out right now. All the teams have it in their own hands still, my point being, do I see JS having it in him, to change our fortunes, unfortunately I don’t.

Are we handling it poorly? Despite all the doom and gloom and calls of "We're already down", 4pts is the closest we have been to the relegation zone bar the very start of the season and we have a far better goal difference than every else near the bottom bar Hull. We now have over a week to prepare for an away game to a Forest side slipping fast and have lost 5 consecutive games at home.

I guess we see it very differently, and I’m not saying either opinion is right. Use Swansea in the PL, they seem to have found a belief some somewhere. I don’t see us looking at previous games and performances and thinking “this winless run, and style of play isn’t working, we need to adopt a different approach.”. If we were picking up points, I’d say we were influencing our destiny, but the volume of losses, the performances to accompany these losses is the worrying part. The losing part isn’t the bit that bothers me, winning and losing is part of sport, but the lack of belief is the most concerning. After each game, sadly I don’t see any positives to take and build on, the players look beaten, and the buck stops with the management team to find a way of making the, feel they can win the next game.

[CountryRoyal]

Of course it’s still in our hands, but we are not making a good job of it, my comments are based on how things are playing out right now. All the teams have it in their own hands still, my point being, do I see JS having it in him, to change our fortunes, unfortunately I don’t.

Are we handling it poorly? Despite all the doom and gloom and calls of "We're already down", 4pts is the closest we have been to the relegation zone bar the very start of the season and we have a far better goal difference than every else near the bottom bar Hull. We now have over a week to prepare for an away game to a Forest side slipping fast and have lost 5 consecutive games at home.

I guess we see it very differently, and I’m not saying either opinion is right. Use Swansea in the PL, they seem to have found a belief some somewhere. I don’t see us looking at previous games and performances and thinking “this winless run, and style of play isn’t working, we need to adopt a different approach.”. If we were picking up points, I’d say we were influencing our destiny, but the volume of losses, the performances to accompany these losses is the worrying part. The losing part isn’t the bit that bothers me, winning and losing is part of sport, but the lack of belief is the most concerning. After each game, sadly I don’t see any positives to take and build on, the players look beaten, and the buck stops with the management team to find a way of making the, feel they can win the next game.

+1

We're sleep walking to League One and no one is doing anything about it.

[John Smith]

Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players

Spot on.

[Eaststandman]

Errr! Yes, but we are not and it does make a difference, especially when our direct competitors are improving and as often as not doing better than our paltry efforts!

[Snowflake Royal]

If you sack a manager every time they fail, you will never benefit from them learning from their mistakes.

Stam has shown quality last season and been poor this season. We're far from certain of relegation and he is likely learning a lot right now. Once the season ends and he can reset and take the chance to start fresh, things could easily be very different next year.

How about a little less doom-mongering and hand wringing and a little more positive attitude about staying up.

You could have three pitch invasions a game and everyone waving pants and placards and there's no guarantee the club would sack Stam. And I still think if the next result or two is poor he'll be sacked regardless of whatyou melts do - of course I could be wrong.

At the very least, could we not have a dozen new whiny threads calling for change / protests / conspiracies after every defeat? Try using one that exists. Or better still, don't whine about it on here. Do something at a game. And if you don't get support, stfu.

Sorry Snowflake I can't agree with your second paragraph. The football we were playing last year was little better than the dross we are seeing this. We made less stupid mistakes in our own half to be sure, and we had Kermorgant belatedly knocking in a few goals, but time and again in my conversations with wrinkly RFC supporters we to a man were saying how luck y we were and how on earth could a team playing this badly be so high up the league. I think the Play-off final was the true RFC of last season - bereft of ideas and scared to make a mistake. That has been the over-riding theme this season too.

Quite what you expect us to do in your third paragraph is also puzzling me. Stam has been given plenty of time to turn things around, and all he does is blame the players, the previous management, the previous owners, the fans ... and never accepts that he is actually the major part of the problem with his arrogance and inability to adopt a Plan B when his beloved Plan A "non-football" fails yet again.

Now Stam's latest wheeze is to tell the fans that he turned down the Leeds job in the summer in the hope this will somehow ingratiate him in the eyes of the fans. The fact of the matter is he was never ever offered the job! During initial discussions he had with the Leeds' owners he asked for £3M a year and they promptly told him "thanks but no thanks". He was never offered the position so how on earth could he have turned it down? The man is a "stranger to the truth" now as well as being "a stranger to reality".

Not having a go at your opinions, just trying to understand how you can hold them in the face of so much evidence to the contrary. Have a good rest of the w/e.

Hey chump. I don't care how much you rant, the objective truth is that a team that has previously finished 17th and 19th (ish) doesn't finish 3rd the next season through luck and being shit. You might not have enjoyed it, but your enjoyment is not a pre-requisite of success. And lets face it, you've hardly got a record of rationalism and objectivity, throwing childish tantrums and names around at Rodgers, Kebe etc etc.

As for my third paragraph, it sets out exactly what I'd like the fans to do. Try actually lending support to the players during a game rather than whining, booing, grumbling, sulking or abusing. You can't have any sort of positive impact during a game without being supportive.

Wanna boo and call for Stam's sacking? Stay and do it after. That gets the right message across.

As for relegation, you can claim it's a certainty all you like. It doesn't make it true. Currently we've got a decent chance of staying up. And should we eventually go down, it won't have proved you right that at this time it was a certainty. I bet you were saying the same old shit before we went on that stonkung run before Xmas.

[Snowflake Royal]

Of course it’s still in our hands, but we are not making a good job of it, my comments are based on how things are playing out right now. All the teams have it in their own hands still, my point being, do I see JS having it in him, to change our fortunes, unfortunately I don’t.

Are we handling it poorly? Despite all the doom and gloom and calls of "We're already down", 4pts is the closest we have been to the relegation zone bar the very start of the season and we have a far better goal difference than every else near the bottom bar Hull. We now have over a week to prepare for an away game to a Forest side slipping fast and have lost 5 consecutive games at home.

I guess we see it very differently, and I’m not saying either opinion is right. Use Swansea in the PL, they seem to have found a belief some somewhere. I don’t see us looking at previous games and performances and thinking “this winless run, and style of play isn’t working, we need to adopt a different approach.”. If we were picking up points, I’d say we were influencing our destiny, but the volume of losses, the performances to accompany these losses is the worrying part. The losing part isn’t the bit that bothers me, winning and losing is part of sport, but the lack of belief is the most concerning. After each game, sadly I don’t see any positives to take and build on, the players look beaten, and the buck stops with the management team to find a way of making the, feel they can win the next game.

Weren't Swansea in the bottom three most of the season? Not a good comparison seeing as we've rarely been below 3 places clear of relegation. I mean they had literally nothing to lose by rolling the dice. We could drop further if it goes wrong. And then we're lumbered with a manager who failed to save us from when we were clear of the drop. Fabulous.

[Victor Meldrew]

Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players

Spot on.

I don't think people are saying that losing 2-1 away at 'Boro is a dreadful result.
It does however follow dreadful results at home to Birmingham and Burton,both bottom 3 clubs at the time, so we have put ourselves in a dreadful position by just keeping on losing.

Didn't you say a few weeks ago that we were nailed on for a top 10 finish and might even make the play-offs?

Stam has brought in a lot of players-how bad must they be (and the judgement of himself and Brian and/or Ron)for our supposedly not lucky team to now be in 18th rather than in 3rd and pushing for the top 2?
Somebody is accountable and it is certainly not the fans who Stam continues to blame.

[John Smith]

Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players

Spot on.

I don't think people are saying that losing 2-1 away at 'Boro is a dreadful result.
It does however follow dreadful results at home to Birmingham and Burton,both bottom 3 clubs at the time, so we have put ourselves in a dreadful position by just keeping on losing.

Didn't you say a few weeks ago that we were nailed on for a top 10 finish and might even make the play-offs?

Stam has brought in a lot of players-how bad must they be (and the judgement of himself and Brian and/or Ron)for our supposedly not lucky team to now be in 18th rather than in 3rd and pushing for the top 2?
Somebody is accountable and it is certainly not the fans who Stam continues to blame.

I certainly did not say or think that. I said (and continue to maintain) that we are a lower mid-table side and that' where we will finish.

Maybe 'we did a Leicester' last year? The competition is a lot better than last year with the likes of Villa, Derby, Fulham all strengthening. We just didn't get a striker in, that's all.

[Victor Meldrew]

Spot on.

I don't think people are saying that losing 2-1 away at 'Boro is a dreadful result.
It does however follow dreadful results at home to Birmingham and Burton,both bottom 3 clubs at the time, so we have put ourselves in a dreadful position by just keeping on losing.

Didn't you say a few weeks ago that we were nailed on for a top 10 finish and might even make the play-offs?

Stam has brought in a lot of players-how bad must they be (and the judgement of himself and Brian and/or Ron)for our supposedly not lucky team to now be in 18th rather than in 3rd and pushing for the top 2?
Somebody is accountable and it is certainly not the fans who Stam continues to blame.

I certainly did not say or think that. I said (and continue to maintain) that we are a lower mid-table side and that' where we will finish.

Maybe 'we did a Leicester' last year? The competition is a lot better than last year with the likes of Villa, Derby, Fulham all strengthening. We just didn't get a striker in, that's all.

I was referring to snowball.

[rfc58]

Are we handling it poorly? Despite all the doom and gloom and calls of "We're already down", 4pts is the closest we have been to the relegation zone bar the very start of the season and we have a far better goal difference than every else near the bottom bar Hull. We now have over a week to prepare for an away game to a Forest side slipping fast and have lost 5 consecutive games at home.

I guess we see it very differently, and I’m not saying either opinion is right. Use Swansea in the PL, they seem to have found a belief some somewhere. I don’t see us looking at previous games and performances and thinking “this winless run, and style of play isn’t working, we need to adopt a different approach.”. If we were picking up points, I’d say we were influencing our destiny, but the volume of losses, the performances to accompany these losses is the worrying part. The losing part isn’t the bit that bothers me, winning and losing is part of sport, but the lack of belief is the most concerning. After each game, sadly I don’t see any positives to take and build on, the players look beaten, and the buck stops with the management team to find a way of making the, feel they can win the next game.

Weren't Swansea in the bottom three most of the season? Not a good comparison seeing as we've rarely been below 3 places clear of relegation. I mean they had literally nothing to lose by rolling the dice. We could drop further if it goes wrong. And then we're lumbered with a manager who failed to save us from when we were clear of the drop. Fabulous.

I think the example I make is that a team is in the shit, Swansea, and with new ideas, and believe instilled into them, they are showing fight, and results are going their way. Until you are actually relegated, you have hope, so I don’t see our current plight being so much better than where Swansea were, we might be in a better position, but it’s still a very precarious one. My biggest concern is games are running out, and there are no signs of improvement, regardless of the quality we face, Boro away was a tough ne, but Burton at home, Millwall at home, even Boro at home, not exactly top opposition away from their own place.

[Snowflake Royal]

I guess we see it very differently, and I’m not saying either opinion is right. Use Swansea in the PL, they seem to have found a belief some somewhere. I don’t see us looking at previous games and performances and thinking “this winless run, and style of play isn’t working, we need to adopt a different approach.”. If we were picking up points, I’d say we were influencing our destiny, but the volume of losses, the performances to accompany these losses is the worrying part. The losing part isn’t the bit that bothers me, winning and losing is part of sport, but the lack of belief is the most concerning. After each game, sadly I don’t see any positives to take and build on, the players look beaten, and the buck stops with the management team to find a way of making the, feel they can win the next game.

Weren't Swansea in the bottom three most of the season? Not a good comparison seeing as we've rarely been below 3 places clear of relegation. I mean they had literally nothing to lose by rolling the dice. We could drop further if it goes wrong. And then we're lumbered with a manager who failed to save us from when we were clear of the drop. Fabulous.

I think the example I make is that a team is in the shit, Swansea, and with new ideas, and believe instilled into them, they are showing fight, and results are going their way. Until you are actually relegated, you have hope, so I don’t see our current plight being so much better than where Swansea were, we might be in a better position, but it’s still a very precarious one. My biggest concern is games are running out, and there are no signs of improvement, regardless of the quality we face, Boro away was a tough ne, but Burton at home, Millwall at home, even Boro at home, not exactly top opposition away from their own place.

Yeah ok, but for every Swansea you have Sunderland, Wednesday, us under Adkins, McDermott and Clarke.

I'm not saying Stam should stay, or people shouldn't call for his head - i mean his performance this season is indefensible, what I don't want to see is unproductive and relentless negativity, the assumption that we're doomed without change and the unfounded view that everything will be fine if we just sack stam.

[leon]

We should be Top 10 pushing play offs.

Well, we were last season. All season. In his rookie season. And we came from nowhere. Yet others are trying to marginalize it by saying we were lucky. (Heh, they are making my next point for me...)

'We should possibly be pushing automatic'?

Wow, really? Based on what exactly? Our history? If you are expecting that every season you will always be moaning. Look what other teams have spent and their budgets. Wolves and Villa are currently top 2, so start there. Check out what Boro have spent. Which manager out there will get us Top 3 in his first season here (even in his rookie season (Gilkes?)), and get us promoted? Whoever it is, we might be a bottom half team (again) so at least we will have a base line.

Well you did ask. Dont get all hysterical when I give you an answer.

I’ve been supporting Reading long enough to have fairly low expectations most seasons.

[Hoop Blah]

Yet, we were 'lucky' to be Top 3 last season? You subscribe to that, right? In the Champ right now?

Just for the record, where do you honestly think this club should finish consistently in the Champ? At this time, and at this level? I'm going to assign you some credit, and assume you are are a knowledgeable footy man.

Forget managers, just for one second. We were Top 3 last season, mostly all season, and lost on pens by one kick in the final.

Where should we be next season? This club, and this size, at this time. Your expectations are...what exactly? I'm not so much talking 'entertaining footy', I'm talking league position. Your answers on a postcard, please.

(Everyone has analysed this league currently, at some length, and the teams in it, and their moves, etc, right?)

Where should this club be? I'd suggest we should be comfortably in the top 10 of an typical strength Championship.

Why? Because now and for the last 5 or 10 years or more we've been on of the more established clubs in the division and one of the highest spenders too. That's given us the basis of a strong enough squad and a reputation to attract suitable talent to supplement it.

You disregard the element of entertainment, but that is a massive part of what we as fans want from our team.

In regards to the luck element, I don't really subscribe too much to luck in much the same way as Gary Player didn't. If you think of it more as momentum then it makes a lot more sense IMO. A little fortune, luck or just ability to get you the right level of momentum (as we had last season) can work wonders for a successful season and for getting a few extra percent out of players (such as that run of goalscoring form from Yann that propelled us to 3rd). In a division where the margins for success and failure are so tight that bit of luck, or momentum, call it what you will can make a massive difference and we're seeing that now.

The squad we have, even in the unbalanced state Stam has built it, should still be much higher up the league, and it's rank as management that we aren't.

[Royal Rother]

apparently the squad are off to Spain for a bit of warm weather training

Only in the crazy world of football could you be so unutterably consistently crap at your job and then get sent away on all expenses paid trip to warmer climes.

[Denver Royal]

Where should this club be? I'd suggest we should be comfortably in the top 10 of an typical strength Championship.

You disregard the element of entertainment, but that is a massive part of what we as fans want from our team.

Hoop Blah, you have some good thoughts there, as usual. It's been a while.

If we are going to be a 'Comfortably Top 10 team' in the Champ these days, and that is the expectation of the entire fanbase every season, then we are going to need to get back on track. Because, prior to 3rd last year under Stam, we finished 19th and 17th the two seasons prior to that. We likely won't be top 10 this season, either. And right now I'm not even convinced we'll even be top 10 next year, either. Obviously we'll wait and see what happens over the Summer personnel wise. I'm also unsure to what extent the new owners are going to back us, relative to other teams. So, we will see how it plays out in the coming seasons and whether we re-establish ourselves as such a team.

I agree the element of entertainment is massive, at least for this fanbase anyway. And its tough to argue against that, logically. However, I get the feeling the entertainment aspect is less of an issue at some other clubs.

I was wondering about our plan for PL. Our managers are criticized pursuant to that. I made a post the other day about Burnley, and whether our model would or should look at all like their's, if we got promoted to PL. We maybe approximate their size a bit, and they have done well in PL since their promotion. But I also pointed to their style of play, questioned how 'entertaining and exciting' it all is, how so very few goals they score, esp at home, that their games are almost always 1-0s, etc, their managers demeanor and personality, etc, and I wondered how well their type of success and their model would be embraced and sit with us as fans here.

Where does it leave us right now in that regard? Well, with the next manager we hire, its presumably going to place a premium on the style of footy he intends to play, and in fact subsequently then does play in reality. Again, I'm not sure if this is as big a consideration or burden for some other clubs when they make their searches and hires. Would we want Dyche here if he left Burnley?

(Edit: I saw in the Rumours forum you recommended Monk as the next manager here, and I responded to it).

[FiNeRaIn]

I fully expected to wake up this morning PST and see Stam was sacked. The fact he’s still here despite the consistent useless performances/results and our relegation reality as worrying as ever makes me question how much trouble we are in behind the scenes. People look like they have some serious non football motives, whether it’s back handers, weird agent deals or a complete lack of giving a shit about the actual team. Stam should have been gone months ago, let alone this morning. I think there could be some serious dirt somewhere.

[Denver Royal]

.