Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

[AthleticoSpizz]

2 days, nope, edit 3 days

Well done

Welcome back, we’ve missed you......

[Hendo]

Because as Dai is risking it this season we will need to be in the playoffs by Christmas at least otherwise he’ll be gone. Don’t car what additions we make, this squad is nowhere near the playoffs.

So whilst certain fans are getting very excited, the sensible ones of us are getting very anxious at the prospect of the impending FFP that we’ll face thanks to our glorious owner!

Strongly suggest you go and have a lay down and step away from the keyboard.

We have literally just cleared out a number of players whose wages amount to over £150k a week. Apart from Laurent and Ejaria literally nothing has happened.

Excited fans can also be sensible ones and i will include myself in that and look forward to what this season holds.

Shame we realistically needed to reduce it by about £220k a week.

So by about 70% then. It shows EFL we are actively looking to reduce the wage bill whilst bringing in cheaper or known talent, which is something they always look at when reviewing these types of cases. Example being Birmingham, they told them to stop, they didn’t, they got a points deduction.

[Old Man Andrews]

Shame we realistically needed to reduce it by about £220k a week.

You're done with the football club Ian, remember? Step away from the team board.

You or Woodley saying something doesn't make it true.

You said you were done with the club, you know you did. That therefore excludes you from making any comment on footballing matters.

[Notts Royal]

Strongly suggest you go and have a lay down and step away from the keyboard.

We have literally just cleared out a number of players whose wages amount to over £150k a week. Apart from Laurent and Ejaria literally nothing has happened.

Excited fans can also be sensible ones and i will include myself in that and look forward to what this season holds.

So are we not allowed to be absolutely fuming by all this Paul? Bare in mind that both you and I will be supporting this club long after Dai has oxf*rd off, so it’s in our interests that he gets this right. Baring in mind, this strategy of signing loads of Name players has never worked with us, the likelihood is we will have a FFP points deduction in the next season or so. Are you not oxf*rd off with how Dai is playing around with your club?

But my angst is this trigger reaction from fans which is no worse than some perceive the trigger reaction shown by the club when appointing managers.

End of the day he is running a business, a business where Mr Dai wants to see it at the top. He is trusting those people around him. We might not like them people but its his club and his money. We are lucky to have an owner who appears to have very deep pockets and throwing an obscene amount of money at the club. Dont forget all the other things that have happened under his ownership, Bearwood is an outstanding facility, world class and envy of alot of clubs including Premier League teams, i know this as a fact. Away travel etc etc - not many clubs are in our position.

His first approach has not worked. He is clearly reviewing that approach but as i and others have said alot of good has happened over the summer with the clear out. Bowen has been treated unfairly however something clearly has gone on there that we will never know about. I liked Bowen, done a great job however the fall away at the end of the season probably cost him a longer stint.

This new manager could be absolute dross, he could also be an absolute gem. Lets get behind him and the owners. Right now the club need Mr Dai.

On paper that is a very exciting and young squad we have forming, with more to come. I will enjoy the season, will enjoy it more when allowed back into the stadium and would ask other fans to follow a similar approach.

Its never dull being a Reading FC fan.

Who has he trusted that’s around him? Isn’t that part of the issue here - the fact that he couldn’t trust either Howe or Bowen? 2 people who know a hell of a lot more about the football side of things than he does.

I agree regarding the clear out. I am a big fan of the young players like Richards, Olise & Rinomhota.

What I’m questioning is his absolute necessity for promotion at any cost and straight away. Successful teams & squads take years of shaping and building. He can’t just expect promotion like that. We have no divine right to get promoted, when there are 20 other clubs who are competitive. We are the 15th or so largest club in this division, which means it is going to be harder for us to compete at the top. There needs to be a realisation there.

I’m questioning whether he’s doing the best for this club. The fanbase is shrinking in size, we aren’t seen in as positive light for players wanting to make the step up as we used to be. We used to be run differently, and that difference attracted the right kind of players to progress their careers at this club.

I like your optimism Paul, and I suppose we’ll wait and see what happens. But my opinion (and the same as many of the few fans who have stuck around), is we have deteriorated and something has to give. There’s a chance Dai will get bored and give up if it doesn’t work this season...then it will be very worrying times.

[Nameless]

So are we not allowed to be absolutely fuming by all this Paul? Bare in mind that both you and I will be supporting this club long after Dai has oxf*rd off, so it’s in our interests that he gets this right. Baring in mind, this strategy of signing loads of Name players has never worked with us, the likelihood is we will have a FFP points deduction in the next season or so. Are you not oxf*rd off with how Dai is playing around with your club?

But my angst is this trigger reaction from fans which is no worse than some perceive the trigger reaction shown by the club when appointing managers.

End of the day he is running a business, a business where Mr Dai wants to see it at the top. He is trusting those people around him. We might not like them people but its his club and his money. We are lucky to have an owner who appears to have very deep pockets and throwing an obscene amount of money at the club. Dont forget all the other things that have happened under his ownership, Bearwood is an outstanding facility, world class and envy of alot of clubs including Premier League teams, i know this as a fact. Away travel etc etc - not many clubs are in our position.

His first approach has not worked. He is clearly reviewing that approach but as i and others have said alot of good has happened over the summer with the clear out. Bowen has been treated unfairly however something clearly has gone on there that we will never know about. I liked Bowen, done a great job however the fall away at the end of the season probably cost him a longer stint.

This new manager could be absolute dross, he could also be an absolute gem. Lets get behind him and the owners. Right now the club need Mr Dai.

On paper that is a very exciting and young squad we have forming, with more to come. I will enjoy the season, will enjoy it more when allowed back into the stadium and would ask other fans to follow a similar approach.

Its never dull being a Reading FC fan.

Who has he trusted that’s around him? Isn’t that part of the issue here - the fact that he couldn’t trust either Howe or Bowen? 2 people who know a hell of a lot more about the football side of things than he does.

I agree regarding the clear out. I am a big fan of the young players like Richards, Olise & Rinomhota.

What I’m questioning is his absolute necessity for promotion at any cost and straight away. Successful teams & squads take years of shaping and building. He can’t just expect promotion like that. We have no divine right to get promoted, when there are 20 other clubs who are competitive. We are the 15th or so largest club in this division, which means it is going to be harder for us to compete at the top. There needs to be a realisation there.

I’m questioning whether he’s doing the best for this club. The fanbase is shrinking in size, we aren’t seen in as positive light for players wanting to make the step up as we used to be. We used to be run differently, and that difference attracted the right kind of players to progress their careers at this club.

I like your optimism Paul, and I suppose we’ll wait and see what happens. But my opinion (and the same as many of the few fans who have stuck around), is we have deteriorated and something has to give. There’s a chance Dai will get bored and give up if it doesn’t work this season...then it will be very worrying times.

What makes you say he will ‘give up’ ?
What makes you say he wants promotion straightaway and at any cost ?
If the latter were true I reckon he would have got the most experienced manager available and spent loads of money on players. So far he’s not even been linked with any players likely to cost any money...

[Lower West]

But my angst is this trigger reaction from fans which is no worse than some perceive the trigger reaction shown by the club when appointing managers.

End of the day he is running a business, a business where Mr Dai wants to see it at the top. He is trusting those people around him. We might not like them people but its his club and his money. We are lucky to have an owner who appears to have very deep pockets and throwing an obscene amount of money at the club. Dont forget all the other things that have happened under his ownership, Bearwood is an outstanding facility, world class and envy of alot of clubs including Premier League teams, i know this as a fact. Away travel etc etc - not many clubs are in our position.

His first approach has not worked. He is clearly reviewing that approach but as i and others have said alot of good has happened over the summer with the clear out. Bowen has been treated unfairly however something clearly has gone on there that we will never know about. I liked Bowen, done a great job however the fall away at the end of the season probably cost him a longer stint.

This new manager could be absolute dross, he could also be an absolute gem. Lets get behind him and the owners. Right now the club need Mr Dai.

On paper that is a very exciting and young squad we have forming, with more to come. I will enjoy the season, will enjoy it more when allowed back into the stadium and would ask other fans to follow a similar approach.

Its never dull being a Reading FC fan.

Who has he trusted that’s around him? Isn’t that part of the issue here - the fact that he couldn’t trust either Howe or Bowen? 2 people who know a hell of a lot more about the football side of things than he does.

I agree regarding the clear out. I am a big fan of the young players like Richards, Olise & Rinomhota.

What I’m questioning is his absolute necessity for promotion at any cost and straight away. Successful teams & squads take years of shaping and building. He can’t just expect promotion like that. We have no divine right to get promoted, when there are 20 other clubs who are competitive. We are the 15th or so largest club in this division, which means it is going to be harder for us to compete at the top. There needs to be a realisation there.

I’m questioning whether he’s doing the best for this club. The fanbase is shrinking in size, we aren’t seen in as positive light for players wanting to make the step up as we used to be. We used to be run differently, and that difference attracted the right kind of players to progress their careers at this club.

I like your optimism Paul, and I suppose we’ll wait and see what happens. But my opinion (and the same as many of the few fans who have stuck around), is we have deteriorated and something has to give. There’s a chance Dai will get bored and give up if it doesn’t work this season...then it will be very worrying times.

What makes you say he wants promotion straightaway and at any cost ?

Why else invest heavily in a mediocre Championship club. In a town in a foreign country in which you have no interest. How many games has he ever attended in person? They were happy to let KSV Roeselare fail. After all they are foremost business people. With little patience for under delivery of objectives set. Hull City was their original target (when in the Premier League).

[3points]

Interesting comment in Star’s analysis of last years’saccounts


‘In two years the club has profited by £14.7m from making a profit on selling fixed assets. In 2018 this is likely to have been the stadium itself; in 2019 it appears to have been the training ground at Hogwood.’

Now I think this is an error and it should say Bearwood.
However if it is correct then it suggests we did own Hogwood but have sold it.
If it is an error then you would question why we would sell our new training ground but not the one we were vacating. One reason might be because we didn’t own Hogwood. The other could be that the owners preferred the accounting solutions n of selling Bearwood to themselves above realising some cash from the actual sale of a no longer required asset.

the STAR article is correct. It was confirmed as being factually accurate by Brian Stabler. The club still owns Bearwood.

[Snowflake Royal]

Maybe one more year of selling the family silver to stave off points deductions then.

[Old Man Andrews]

Maybe one more year of selling the family silver to stave off points deductions then.

You're done with the club aren't you?

[Nameless]

Interesting comment in Star’s analysis of last years’saccounts


‘In two years the club has profited by £14.7m from making a profit on selling fixed assets. In 2018 this is likely to have been the stadium itself; in 2019 it appears to have been the training ground at Hogwood.’

Now I think this is an error and it should say Bearwood.
However if it is correct then it suggests we did own Hogwood but have sold it.
If it is an error then you would question why we would sell our new training ground but not the one we were vacating. One reason might be because we didn’t own Hogwood. The other could be that the owners preferred the accounting solutions n of selling Bearwood to themselves above realising some cash from the actual sale of a no longer required asset.

the STAR article is correct. It was confirmed as being factually accurate by Brian Stabler. The club still owns Bearwood.

Interesting, thankyou.
Any idea what the Hogwood ownership trail actually was ?
It’s good to know Bearwood is still nominally an RFC asset.

[Nameless]

Maybe one more year of selling the family silver to stave off points deductions then.

Because we’re obviously making no efforts to reduce our theoretical deficit in any other way are we...

[3points]

Interesting comment in Star’s analysis of last years’saccounts


‘In two years the club has profited by £14.7m from making a profit on selling fixed assets. In 2018 this is likely to have been the stadium itself; in 2019 it appears to have been the training ground at Hogwood.’

Now I think this is an error and it should say Bearwood.
However if it is correct then it suggests we did own Hogwood but have sold it.
If it is an error then you would question why we would sell our new training ground but not the one we were vacating. One reason might be because we didn’t own Hogwood. The other could be that the owners preferred the accounting solutions n of selling Bearwood to themselves above realising some cash from the actual sale of a no longer required asset.

the STAR article is correct. It was confirmed as being factually accurate by Brian Stabler. The club still owns Bearwood.

Interesting, thankyou.
Any idea what the Hogwood ownership trail actually was ?
It’s good to know Bearwood is still nominally an RFC asset.

I don’t I’m afraid. And the sale of Hogwood, iirc, is actually to a company controlled by Mr Dai based in The British Virgin Islands or Cayman. So technically the club still owns it. It was just another ruse to increase profits for the year to help with Profit and Sustainability regs

[Notts Royal]

Maybe one more year of selling the family silver to stave off points deductions then.

Because we’re obviously making no efforts to reduce our theoretical deficit in any other way are we...

Selling Danny Loader for £7m last season would’ve helped out quite a bit. Selling Swift now for £8m would help massively. Most clubs in our league are selling a star player for big money in order to revamp their squad & improve profitability. Why should we be any different?

[Nameless]

the STAR article is correct. It was confirmed as being factually accurate by Brian Stabler. The club still owns Bearwood.

Interesting, thankyou.
Any idea what the Hogwood ownership trail actually was ?
It’s good to know Bearwood is still nominally an RFC asset.

I don’t I’m afraid. And the sale of Hogwood, iirc, is actually to a company controlled by Mr Dai based in The British Virgin Islands or Cayman. So technically the club still owns it. It was just another ruse to increase profits for the year to help with Profit and Sustainability regs

I think that was common knowledge, same with the ground.
But technically the club don’t still own either. Dai Yongge owns both but both now sit outside the RFC web of companies. Effectively there is still a strong link and it’s certainly better than if we had sold either to a totally separate entity.
I’m not sure it was a ‘ruse’ , that suggests something sneaky or underhand when they were both done openly. There is nothing unusual in a club not owning it’s own ground. There are Premiership clubs who don’t own there ground and I believe in Europe it’s actually very common for clubs to not own their ground.

[3points]

Interesting, thankyou.
Any idea what the Hogwood ownership trail actually was ?
It’s good to know Bearwood is still nominally an RFC asset.

I don’t I’m afraid. And the sale of Hogwood, iirc, is actually to a company controlled by Mr Dai based in The British Virgin Islands or Cayman. So technically the club still owns it. It was just another ruse to increase profits for the year to help with Profit and Sustainability regs

I think that was common knowledge, same with the ground.
But technically the club don’t still own either. Dai Yongge owns both but both now sit outside the RFC web of companies. Effectively there is still a strong link and it’s certainly better than if we had sold either to a totally separate entity.
I’m not sure it was a ‘ruse’ , that suggests something sneaky or underhand when they were both done openly. There is nothing unusual in a club not owning it’s own ground. There are Premiership clubs who don’t own there ground and I believe in Europe it’s actually very common for clubs to not own their ground.

yes, you're correct. My phrasing could have been better. What I meant is that the ground is still under the control of the owner, not some third party property developer for example. So, if he decides to sell the club and a new owner wants the ground as well as part of the transaction then it is totally within Mr Dai's control to make that happen.

In terms of ruse, what I was saying is that it was only done because the FFP rules made us take those actions. In reality, everyone knows it is a way to get around the rules that are set in stone. Any good lawyer and advisor will be telling Mr Dai how to bend but not break the rules and, at the moment, the sale of the stadium (let's not forget he's done it twice now, firstly for £27m and then a second go in last season's accounts for a further £11m iirc). I know the EFL was fine with the original transaction, but the second one was one of the reasons we had a soft transfer embargo last summer I believe, until the EFL ratified the transaction.

[bigshaka'away']

Anybody who was at Millwall away, and many home games, will not be sad to see Bowen go.

I didn't want him in the first place, he delivered no joy and no memorable moments (that I was there for at least) and failed to get the best out of the players. It was turgid in what was a poor league last season.

I'm glad this happened even if it does turn out to fail. Other clubs change managers all the time and it works, others do and it doesn't. Let's hope it works.

[Esteban]

I don’t I’m afraid. And the sale of Hogwood, iirc, is actually to a company controlled by Mr Dai based in The British Virgin Islands or Cayman. So technically the club still owns it. It was just another ruse to increase profits for the year to help with Profit and Sustainability regs

I think that was common knowledge, same with the ground.
But technically the club don’t still own either. Dai Yongge owns both but both now sit outside the RFC web of companies. Effectively there is still a strong link and it’s certainly better than if we had sold either to a totally separate entity.
I’m not sure it was a ‘ruse’ , that suggests something sneaky or underhand when they were both done openly. There is nothing unusual in a club not owning it’s own ground. There are Premiership clubs who don’t own there ground and I believe in Europe it’s actually very common for clubs to not own their ground.

yes, you're correct. My phrasing could have been better. What I meant is that the ground is still under the control of the owner, not some third party property developer for example. So, if he decides to sell the club and a new owner wants the ground as well as part of the transaction then it is totally within Mr Dai's control to make that happen.

In terms of ruse, what I was saying is that it was only done because the FFP rules made us take those actions. In reality, everyone knows it is a way to get around the rules that are set in stone. Any good lawyer and advisor will be telling Mr Dai how to bend but not break the rules and, at the moment, the sale of the stadium (let's not forget he's done it twice now, firstly for £27m and then a second go in last season's accounts for a further £11m iirc). I know the EFL was fine with the original transaction, but the second one was one of the reasons we had a soft transfer embargo last summer I believe, until the EFL ratified the transaction.

At the risk of asking a very stupid question, how did he mange to sell the stadium twice?

[Zammo]

Anybody who was at Millwall away, and many home games, will not be sad to see Bowen go.

I didn't want him in the first place, he delivered no joy and no memorable moments (that I was there for at least) and failed to get the best out of the players. It was turgid in what was a poor league last season.

I'm glad this happened even if it does turn out to fail. Other clubs change managers all the time and it works, others do and it doesn't. Let's hope it works.

Whilst I agree with most of that, Fulham, Sheff Weds and Birmingham away were all superb, but that may also relate to the amount of alcohol consumed on those trips.

**edit** Millwall was also a great day out

[Nameless]

I think that was common knowledge, same with the ground.
But technically the club don’t still own either. Dai Yongge owns both but both now sit outside the RFC web of companies. Effectively there is still a strong link and it’s certainly better than if we had sold either to a totally separate entity.
I’m not sure it was a ‘ruse’ , that suggests something sneaky or underhand when they were both done openly. There is nothing unusual in a club not owning it’s own ground. There are Premiership clubs who don’t own there ground and I believe in Europe it’s actually very common for clubs to not own their ground.

yes, you're correct. My phrasing could have been better. What I meant is that the ground is still under the control of the owner, not some third party property developer for example. So, if he decides to sell the club and a new owner wants the ground as well as part of the transaction then it is totally within Mr Dai's control to make that happen.

In terms of ruse, what I was saying is that it was only done because the FFP rules made us take those actions. In reality, everyone knows it is a way to get around the rules that are set in stone. Any good lawyer and advisor will be telling Mr Dai how to bend but not break the rules and, at the moment, the sale of the stadium (let's not forget he's done it twice now, firstly for £27m and then a second go in last season's accounts for a further £11m iirc). I know the EFL was fine with the original transaction, but the second one was one of the reasons we had a soft transfer embargo last summer I believe, until the EFL ratified the transaction.

At the risk of asking a very stupid question, how did he mange to sell the stadium twice?

Second time was to a passing American tourist.
Actually sold him Palmer Park.

[Old Man Andrews]

Paunović out of quarantine today, hopefully we hear from him and get an idea on any potential incomings.