Shane Long

[Woodcote Royal]

Recently or in general?

Can you think of any?

Jamie Ashdown benefitted immensely from a loan to Rushden and also Matthew Upson owes a lot to his loan at Reading.

And which one remained at the club that loaned them out?

My point exactly

Loan sends a "try before you buy" message to the player, thta they are not a valued member of the squad

Except for clubs in the Premiership aiming to give a player some vital experience and a test to see how good they could be.

In the current Arsenal side, you've Eboue plus a current crop (of which some may not make it at Arsenal) of Bentner, Larsson etc. In the current Villa side, you've got Cahill, Ridgwell, Agbonlahor, Samuel and Moore who have been out on loan. Newcastle have Milner - on loan from Leeds to Swindon while there, and then a season at Villa. Parker was out at Norwich for a few games while at Charlton, and fellow Newcastle midfielder O'Brien had a spell at Carlisle.

Defoe had a famous spell at Bournemouth, as a youngster, as did Rio Ferdinand.

For young players with talent, it is a good, no, very good way of seeing what level a player can perform at.

Just because some players don't break through isn't an indictment of the loan system, its probably because they weren't quite good enough.

Our record for bringing players through the academy over the last 2 decades is a sad indictment of how few clubs have got it more wrong than us

And, this thread is a sad indictment of the kind of influence our supporters have placed on the whole sorry process.

Being fortunate to have one of the best managers in the country for unearthing young talent who, in 2 short seasons, has made a complete and utter mockery of the doom merchants who support this club, is now having his judgement questioned by those who have at some stage or another written off nearly every member of the current squad.

The Arsenal example is a very good one.

How many of their current side were in that team of reserves we played in the cup last year?

Again, I'm delighted we have Steve Coppell so save us from our own supporters.............................Long is going nowhere because he deserves his chance in the Prem with us and, we have little to lose and everything to gain by giving him that chance.

[doylefan]

What a goal by Long and loved the celebration. so glad that he finally got his first premership goal, its about time (with all those in the reserves and cup games!)

Showed yesterday that hes going to take his chance while hes got it and played fantastically and all credit to him for doing it!!

Loved the fact that all three goals came from players that some people had written off a while ago!! Only four more i think for a full house??? (little, oster, murty and convey??)

[papereyes]

Not quite the whole season, actually. Joined in October.

I think the issue is that for a Premiership club, you have to loan out that sort of player at about 18, to see how good they are and how they adapt from playing reserve football to playing pro football.

That said, the very best often skip that. It depends on each player, and I guess, each club.

[papereyes]

The Arsenal example is a very good one.

How many of their current side were in that team of reserves we played in the cup last year?

Although your post seems to be a slightly paranoid rant, I'll humour you here.

4 from that side played today. Eboue, Senderos, van Persie, Flamini.

Of the rest of that particular Arsenal side, Almunia was on the bench today. Larsson (22), Bendtner (19) and Muamba (19) are all on loan at Arsenal while Gilbert (20) is on loan at Cardiff. Lupoli, a late sub, is on loan at Derby. Djorou has played about 25 games for Arsenal this season, so maybe that's a 5th to go above.

Cygan, Reyes and Owusu-Abeyie are no longer at the club.

Not quite sure what that shows.

[papereyes]

We need Shane Long to remain here now.

While Doyle is injured ... yes.

[Woodcote Royal]

The Arsenal example is a very good one.

How many of their current side were in that team of reserves we played in the cup last year?

Although your post seems to be a slightly paranoid rant, I'll humour you here.

4 from that side played today. Eboue, Senderos, van Persie, Flamini.

Of the rest of that particular Arsenal side, Almunia was on the bench today. Larsson (22), Bendtner (19) and Muamba (19) are all on loan at Arsenal while Gilbert (20) is on loan at Cardiff. Lupoli, a late sub, is on loan at Derby. Djorou has played about 25 games for Arsenal this season, so maybe that's a 5th to go above.

Cygan, Reyes and Owusu-Abeyie are no longer at the club.

Not quite sure what that shows.

Although your post seems to be a slightly up yourself in tone, I will humour you.

Assuming this info is correct surely it makes a mockery of those who said at the time that we were well beaten by a poor Asrenal side.

Also, the vast majority of these players don't appear to be currently out on loan whilst a significant number have become regularly members of the current squad and/or team in less than a year.

[readingbedding]

We need Shane Long to remain here now.

While Doyle is injured ... yes.

What did you think I meant?

[Uke]

We need Shane Long to remain here now.

While Doyle is injured ... yes.

What did you think I meant?

And in case he gets injured like now.

[papereyes]

The Arsenal example is a very good one.

How many of their current side were in that team of reserves we played in the cup last year?

Although your post seems to be a slightly paranoid rant, I'll humour you here.

4 from that side played today. Eboue, Senderos, van Persie, Flamini.

Of the rest of that particular Arsenal side, Almunia was on the bench today. Larsson (22), Bendtner (19) and Muamba (19) are all on loan at Arsenal while Gilbert (20) is on loan at Cardiff. Lupoli, a late sub, is on loan at Derby. Djorou has played about 25 games for Arsenal this season, so maybe that's a 5th to go above.

Cygan, Reyes and Owusu-Abeyie are no longer at the club.

Not quite sure what that shows.

Although your post seems to be a slightly up yourself in tone, I will humour you.

Assuming this info is correct surely it makes a mockery of those who said at the time that we were well beaten by a poor Asrenal side.

Also, the vast majority of these players don't appear to be currently out on loan whilst a significant number have become regularly members of the current squad and/or team in less than a year.

Bold: It is correct.

Why wouldn't it be?

Italic: Over a third of the squad from that day have gone out on loan. Of the players still at the club, its about 50% of that squad. I think it shows that the club consider a loan deal at some point in the career of their academy players as part of the learning curve of the player. I'd agree. The only players who don't are those that are very good and those that are needed (I'd suggest looking at Villa and their use of Gardner, Davis and Osbourne in midfield).

Underlined: Of the ones who have become members of the regular squad, it would be worth considering how many games they had already played for Arsenal at that point. I'd suggest three, if not four of those six had already made the breakthrough into the first team squad.

Again, not quite sure what it proves.

[Uke]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

[Uke]

As the thread is about the man himself...

[papereyes]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

I wouldn't say 'megaclubs' - I'd say 'clubs with well-established academies'.

How long has ours been running? Isn't it the case that we're only just now getting the rewards of running it?

[Ian Royal]

I believe someone mentioned Parker at Charlton went out on loan. They're a similar size to us.
Your arguement about similar in size to us in invalid IMO because there are very few clubs of our size who get to play in the top flight, which is a different case to championship and lower leagues.

[Woodcote Royal]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

I wouldn't say 'megaclubs' - I'd say 'clubs with well-established academies'.

How long has ours been running? Isn't it the case that we're only just now getting the rewards of running it?

No.

It's as clear as night follows day that it STILL hasn't produced what we spend 750k a year (last figure I heard) on to provide...............players for our first team.

And, if those whose opinions count adopted the approach demanded by many of our fans, none of the talented players coming through would get the chances they need to make the grade here.

[Forbury Lion]

Man Utd loaned some kid called David Beckham out to Preston to harden him. I understand he then went on to play for their first team, but as they did sell him to some foreign club so maybe that doesn't prove anything

[papereyes]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

I wouldn't say 'megaclubs' - I'd say 'clubs with well-established academies'.

How long has ours been running? Isn't it the case that we're only just now getting the rewards of running it?

No.

It's as clear as night follows day that it STILL hasn't produced what we spend 750k a year (last figure I heard) on to provide...............players for our first team.

And, if those whose opinions count adopted the approach demanded by many of our fans, none of the talented players coming through would get the chances they need to make the grade here.

Like Scott Golbourne, as a completely random example.

[Woodcote Royal]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

I wouldn't say 'megaclubs' - I'd say 'clubs with well-established academies'.

How long has ours been running? Isn't it the case that we're only just now getting the rewards of running it?

No.

It's as clear as night follows day that it STILL hasn't produced what we spend 750k a year (last figure I heard) on to provide...............players for our first team.

And, if those whose opinions count adopted the approach demanded by many of our fans, none of the talented players coming through would get the chances they need to make the grade here.

Like Scott Golbourne, as a completely random example.

Like Scott Goldbourne made his league debut before he joined us and, having been here 2 years? costing a substantial fee is not, and never will be, a product of our academy.

[Ian Royal]

Cox, Ashdown, Young, Henderson and Pearce have all made senior appearances as products of the academy. Hayes may have I'm not sure, he's certainly not too far off. Tyson has gone on to have a reasonable successful career elsewhere.

The Academy was set up to produce players to break up into our first team when we were in Division 2. To see a success you need to see people coming through the whole academy. We are a year or two into that age group coming through and have been promoted into the top flight of English football.

Ashdown decided to take his chances elsewhere against our wishes, Young was decided to not be good enough for the Premiership, Tyson wasn't good enough at the time for the Championship but left again against our wishes.

That is plenty of players that our academy has produced. A couple of years of stability in the prem and we will start to see players of that quality emerging. At the moment they are probably Champioship quality, but then that's where we expected to be.

At worst the academy is producing players we can sell on for a fee. Ashdown, Henderson and Tyson have all made us money, thus reducing the cost of the academy. this is only likely to get better in the future now we can be a more attractive prospect than places like Saints, Palace possibly even West Ham.

[Huntley & Palmer]

All the 'successful' loans quooted have been from mega-clubs - Arsenal, Manure, Chelski. At these even bench warming is paid silly money which I'm sure ameliorates the pain and suffering significantly.

How many have been from clubs of our size?

Defoe is probably the best example

[Woodcote Royal]

Cox, Ashdown, Young, Henderson and Pearce have all made senior appearances as products of the academy. Hayes may have I'm not sure, he's certainly not too far off. Tyson has gone on to have a reasonable successful career elsewhere.

The Academy was set up to produce players to break up into our first team when we were in Division 2. To see a success you need to see people coming through the whole academy. We are a year or two into that age group coming through and have been promoted into the top flight of English football.

Ashdown decided to take his chances elsewhere against our wishes, Young was decided to not be good enough for the Premiership, Tyson wasn't good enough at the time for the Championship but left again against our wishes.

That is plenty of players that our academy has produced. A couple of years of stability in the prem and we will start to see players of that quality emerging. At the moment they are probably Championship quality, but then that's where we expected to be.

At worst the academy is producing players we can sell on for a fee. Ashdown, Henderson and Tyson have all made us money, thus reducing the cost of the academy. this is only likely to get better in the future now we can be a more attractive prospect than places like Saints, Palace possibly even West Ham.

I accept that there are mitigating circumstances but, not only does this not completely justify our poor return, it simply isn't true that our academy is now producing the goods that it was intended to provide.

As for Cox, Ashdown, Young, Henderson, Tyson and Pearce, 3 chose to ply their trade elsewhere and 2 (Tyson and Henderson) have shown that they were right to do so. In my view, along with Ashdown, I think these 2 stand as examples of young players we might have handled better.

As for the rest, they have only featured in weakened cup teams (unless Cox featured as a league sub?) and not our strongest league side.

I'm not suggesting that we'll never get some top players from our academy or, indeed, that this might not be just around the corner, but it is still to produce an established first team player since the days of Adi Williams and only rejects from other academies (Henderson for example) have enjoyed marginal success.

I, too, hope this is about to change but some of our fans will need to change their mind set judging by the numbers who still want Long sent out on Loan despite scoring his first Premiership goal on Saturday