Nigel Howe says...

[Alan Partridge]

SImple fact is, people will watch a succesful team, bottom line. How did teams like Forest become 'big clubs'? Because when Clough went there, they were 2nd or 3rd division and anything but a 'big club'. He brought success there, they won things, people went to see the best team with the best players. THen they pass it down and your fanbase grows.

Not going to repeat myself but if Reading (who have never been a big club) are to join the likes of Spurs or Villa in terms of 'size' they've got to be succesful. They've got to win domestic cups, get better every season, established PRem side that is NEVER going to go down, a team that is going to fight the top 6 or 7 every season. This is where i'm a broken record again, it's got to be done with investment in the playing staff. They are the guys that bring the success. Not a big half empty stadium or hot air from board room executives.

Reading have had success over the last 5-6 years, they've invested large sums of money for the divisions they were in, they've got promotions and now they are fighting against teams far richer and far more powerful than them. This is a whole new world for the club and importantly for JM, a world that he wants no part of!! I don't blame him, the numbers are frightening. In all fairness if the ambition is to challenge these top clubs then it needs a seriously wealthy person to put the clout in and make the changes. Madejski feels he's done as much as he can and has put in as much as he wants to put in no one is gonna begrudge him moving aside now after 18 years.

Hopefully for the interest of everyone he can find that billionaire (and that's what it needs to be) to take Reading FC to 'the next step'.

Spot on, but it's Chicken and Egg, If we invest millions on new players and still go down, that's money wasted. Mr M always needs to see a bottom line with no if's and buts. Football, and Prem Football especially isn't like that. I think for the first time in a long time he's not sure. He got over the hurdles into the big league, but suddenly 15 years experience doesn't amount to anything. That's why he's looking for a buyer, someone with the balls to make big time decisions. Notice that he said it would need a Billionare to take it to the next stage.

He knows that to get the fan base and therefore income up we need to stay in the prem, his best bet is therefore to let SC pick up one or two players who at the least will keep us up and therefore add to the funds in the coffers and keep the rest banked against the future.

Big, big decisions for the big man. If he gets it right he's an imortal, get it wrong and he's tomorrows chip paper.

Yep agree with that. Got to trust your manager to spend big but spend wisely and then you NEED results. It's a poison chalice really, a game of roulette but one that you HAVE to play if you want the progression that the board are suggesting. Players from Brentford aint gonna get it done anymore!

[Alan Partridge]

Not going to repeat myself but if Reading (who have never been a big club) are to join the likes of Spurs or Villa in terms of 'size' they've got to be succesful. They've got to win domestic cups, get better every season, established PRem side that is NEVER going to go down, a team that is going to fight the top 6 or 7 every season. This is where i'm a broken record again, it's got to be done with investment in the playing staff. They are the guys that bring the success. Not a big half empty stadium or hot air from board room executives.

.

Pompey seem to be doing OK without winning anything. We're constantly told what a big and loyal fan base they have.
Likewise Sunderland - not won anything at the top level in the lifetime of the majority of their fans yet get very big crowds.
I agree that it is what happens on the pitch that attracts fans to a large extent, but we've grown hugely without winning domestic cups and being a top 6 club.
We shall see - but you are right, words are by no means a substitute for actions.

Sunderland HAVE won things, they are also in an area of the country where football is a huge part of people's lives. I'm not saying that the people who follow Reading aren't the same because i'm sure you and I among thousands of others feel passionately about RFC, but it's not the case for the majority of the area. Up there, you're a Geordie or a Mackem.

Pompey is all mouth and is not a big club at all certainly not like a Spurs, Villa, Everton etc. They are fairly well supported and are now in recent years spending SERIOUS money. Sol Campbell, David James among others top quality players that would get in any team. We don't have any of those sort of players. Pompey are now at a stage where they desperately need a new ground to go to the next step. They are almost doing the opposite to us! We've got the ground and the chance of an improved ground without having done the spending on the field!

Interesting to see which way works!!

[Daniella]

Just a few points, sunderland are a big club, they get big crowds and havn't won anything for a long time, we are not near them on size. If anyone has the potential to get in a big investor and progress its them over us IMO.
Pompey are not a big club and their support is over rated, we beat them at fratton park about 10 years ago in front of about 6,000, they never got big crowds until redknapp took over, they are very similar to us in size of support, they are just more vocal and passionate. You can see by their away support aswell, turn up for big local games but against the likes of bolton, blackburn and middlesbrough they fail to turn up....just like us.

[Alan Partridge]

Just a few points, sunderland are a big club, they get big crowds and havn't won anything for a long time, we are not near them on size. If anyone has the potential to get in a big investor and progress its them over us IMO.
Pompey are not a big club and their support is over rated, we beat them at fratton park about 10 years ago in front of about 6,000, they never got big crowds until redknapp took over, they are very similar to us in size of support, they are just more vocal and passionate. You can see by their away support aswell, turn up for big local games but against the likes of bolton, blackburn and middlesbrough they fail to turn up....just like us.

because of some stupid prat in a wig with a bell?

Pompey go against all of the HNA rules in terms of 'passion' rubbish songs and 99.9% of them in replica kit and wigs.

I would disagree with anyone who says Pompey are a 'big club'. Do they have potential to be one? Absolutely, but so do about 20 clubs including Reading.

[Daniella]

I agree with a lot of what you say AP but disagree on the passion side, even the likes of henry the other season said how great they were. Got spanked something 5-0 at home in the cup and made a racket throughout. You remember the game? You'd never see reading fans do that. Reading fans were quiet as a mouse on monday when it was 2-0....nevermind the cricket score arsenal notched up there.

[fallen angel]

The trouble for us is that tradition is against us,people grew up supporting "Big clubs"like the London clubs in the 50's,60's and 70's because we were always small fry to them and even now if you look round the town on a week day you will see more Arsenal/Chelsea shirts then Readings.The answer lies with the very people you love to hate,the "plastics"as you call them.They have no tradition and see Reading as a big club in the prem and know nothing of the days playing Barrow,Workington or Bradford Park Avenue on a wet wednesday night like some of us.The problem will be if we get relegated,will they stick with us?

[Daniella]

Just for AP...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n12889712

" Henry was given a standing ovation by the Portsmouth fans when he was replaced by Kanu.

He said: "I thought the Portsmouth fans were fantastic. Even after they were losing 5-0 they carried on singing and supporting their team. With fans like that they don't deserve to go down." "

[Kitsonista]

Just a few points, sunderland are a big club, they get big crowds and havn't won anything for a long time, we are not near them on size. If anyone has the potential to get in a big investor and progress its them over us IMO.
Pompey are not a big club and their support is over rated, we beat them at fratton park about 10 years ago in front of about 6,000, they never got big crowds until redknapp took over, they are very similar to us in size of support, they are just more vocal and passionate. You can see by their away support aswell, turn up for big local games but against the likes of bolton, blackburn and middlesbrough they fail to turn up....just like us.

To be honest, Pompey's crowd always used to be swelled by the Andrew, when the Navy was in port Pompey's crowd got bigger. With the Navy taking a smaller role in the community the crowds aren't there. But, their hardcore fan base is still reasonable. Again this is a community thing. We need to have more sense of what it is to be "Reading" as a community. For Parents to tell their children what it's like at the MadStad. The Highs and Lows, to bring them along and let them taste the atmosphere, see the game. And it is such a beautiful game, especially in the Prem, how can they not want to come back for more?

[Alan Partridge]

Just for AP...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n12889712

" Henry was given a standing ovation by the Portsmouth fans when he was replaced by Kanu.

He said: "I thought the Portsmouth fans were fantastic. Even after they were losing 5-0 they carried on singing and supporting their team. With fans like that they don't deserve to go down." "

I remember the game. Kudos to them for that but at the same time i remember them booing their team off the next year when they lost to Arsenal ironically. Causing Redknapp to have one of his trademark 'they don't remember how shit they were before Saint Harry turned up and look how great i am' rants.

I remember last season we applauded Arsenal's 3rd goal among other moments. Straying from the point.

also when you are 4-5 - 0 down you may as well have a bit of a sing song and try and enjoy whats left of the game, especially if it's to someone like Arsenal. Do you think if we'd have been 5-0 up there they would have sang and not booed their team off?

[Daniella]

Don't remember us making much noise when we were 4-0 down last year, jsut like we didn't make much noise on monday.
I also don't remember any clapping for their 3rd goal where I was sat.
Pompeys fans are better than ours in terms of vocal support, the majority accept that. Lets not have a petty squabble over something small.

[Kitsonista]

....... a game of roulette but one that you HAVE to play......

So Michael Owen will be a crap manager?

[Alan Partridge]

Don't remember us making much noise when we were 4-0 down last year, jsut like we didn't make much noise on monday.
I also don't remember any clapping for their 3rd goal where I was sat.
Pompeys fans are better than ours in terms of vocal support, the majority accept that. Lets not have a petty squabble over something small.

Do they make more noise? Yes. Is it atmosphere? Not to me. Same ol songs, just more people singing. As you would when you are all behind the goal together - another 'hot topic'.

Portsmouth get reasonable support in terms of numbers and that's the issue thats up for debate in this thread not 'who sings louder'.

[Alan Partridge]

....... a game of roulette but one that you HAVE to play......

So Michael Owen will be a crap manager?

heh. I would have thought so.

[Daniella]

Portsmouth get reasonable support in terms of numbers and that's the issue thats up for debate in this thread not 'who sings louder'.

Which is actually what I addressed in my first post, you decided to carry on the debate about vocal support.

[Alan Partridge]

Portsmouth get reasonable support in terms of numbers and that's the issue thats up for debate in this thread not 'who sings louder'.

Which is actually what I addressed in my first post, you decided to carry on the debate about vocal support.

Been a long day.

[Kitsonista]

Don't remember us making much noise when we were 4-0 down last year, jsut like we didn't make much noise on monday.
I also don't remember any clapping for their 3rd goal where I was sat.
Pompeys fans are better than ours in terms of vocal support, the majority accept that. Lets not have a petty squabble over something small.

Do they make more noise? Yes. Is it atmosphere? Not to me. Same ol songs, just more people singing. As you would when you are all behind the goal together - another 'hot topic'.

Portsmouth get reasonable support in terms of numbers and that's the issue thats up for debate in this thread not 'who sings louder'.

Sorry AP, not trying to prolong this sub thread, but same old songs is what communities are all about, Bubbles, Blue Moon, You'll Never Walk Alone all community songs, all instantly recognisable and not "stealable" (I think I've invented a new word!!) by the opposition unless it's derisory wording. It's what we lack, Reading hasn't found its voice yet.

[Alan Partridge]

Don't remember us making much noise when we were 4-0 down last year, jsut like we didn't make much noise on monday.
I also don't remember any clapping for their 3rd goal where I was sat.
Pompeys fans are better than ours in terms of vocal support, the majority accept that. Lets not have a petty squabble over something small.

Do they make more noise? Yes. Is it atmosphere? Not to me. Same ol songs, just more people singing. As you would when you are all behind the goal together - another 'hot topic'.

Portsmouth get reasonable support in terms of numbers and that's the issue thats up for debate in this thread not 'who sings louder'.

Sorry AP, not trying to prolong this sub thread, but same old songs is what communities are all about, Bubbles, Blue Moon, You'll Never Walk Alone all community songs, all instantly recognisable and not "stealable" (I think I've invented a new word!!) by the opposition unless it's derisory wording. It's what we lack, Reading hasn't found its voice yet.

It's not so much an 'anthem' we lack because out of 92 clubs, probably 15 or so have an 'anthem'.

It's about having your vocal fans all together all behind the goal with stewards who aren't frustrated traffic wardens who failed the IQ test patrolling them. Allow people to have fun and enjoy thier day at football the way it was. Another thing that Reading lack is decent pub within walking distance of the ground.

If all that was in place here, our noise level would easily par Fratton Park for example.

Put Pompey fans in a new stadium, in the middle of nowhere, with little drinking facilitiy then scatter all their fans around their new 'home' and see how much noise they make.

[papereyes]

also when you are 4-5 - 0 down you may as well have a bit of a sing song and try and enjoy whats left of the game, especially if it's to someone like Arsenal. Do you think if we'd have been 5-0 up there they would have sang and not booed their team off?

see also: those West Ham fans left towards the end of the game last season.

Someone did a thread about tiers within the Premiership a while ago. I don't think many would disagree with:

Genuinely Big Clubs That Are Also Genuinely Successful

Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

Genuinely Big Clubs That Aren't That Successful But Have A Bit Of History

Everton
Man City
Newcastle
Tottenham
Villa

nB there may be teams not in the premiership that could fulfil that criteria.

And then Big Local Clubs - big in the surrounding area, not won all that much recently, often found not in the top flight

West Ham
Portsmouth
Blackburn
Sunderland

(arguably pushing to the next tier. But really, are there that many Portsmouth fans from that far away from Portsmouth? A bit of a grey area - the five above this group IMO have more history and that something than these four.)

and then everyone else.

Reading
Fulham
Wigan
Birmingham
Derby
Middlesborough
Bolton

Its a much of a muchness. I don't think you can argue much about the relative size of say Reading, Fulham and Wigan without being very, VERY subjective. But, equally, you'd be pushed to say that those three clubs were any bigger than the four I've highlighted in the tier above. Maybe that's harsh on Boro and Bolton? I dunno. I'll admit that this is very subjective.

Anyway, we've got to be aiming for that group just ahead of us. As AP said, you do that by winning things. But I think its achievable by being there or thereabouts. A European run, a cup final, a season or two like last season. Charlton were actually getting close to it but then look what happened to them.

So how is it achievable? You play good football and you win games.

What I find hard to stomach is talk of expansion and pushing into that group of teams above that isn't backed with action or some idea as to a plan of action. I'm sure its there. But I need, want to see something that makes me think "yes, this is possible". In 2001, I had that belief. That we were looking to get into the Premiership. With what's being said here, I don't have that conviction that they mean it or know how to achieve it. I hope to proven wrong.

The other thing is, I wonder what you'd have to do to get there. Those teams have a certain something that we don't. Well, we might have if our fans had any sense of irony.

Amusingly(?), when I started watching Reading, I don't think we were the most supported club in Reading ... but that's the sort of base we are coming from.

[Duke the Dog]

The "passionate" support is a double-edged sword. When it's supportive it's f*cking incredible, but watch 'em turn when it gets bad. It puts our polite boo-ing to shame.

Anyway, didn't Pompey actually win a few cups and championship(s) here and there (admittedly over 40 years ago), or did I imagine it?

It's the winning of stuff (even Simod cups!) that gets people interested, why do Wolves, Burnley, Preston and even Stoke have reasonably good support, because they have huge numbers of older supporters who passed on the supporting "bug" to other members of the family. Lets face it, most people here started supporting Reading because a Dad, Uncle, Brother (ok, Mum, Sister or aunt) took them along first. Failing that a mate or work-colleague.

We need to win a title or an FA Cup AND stay in the prem, then we can start thinking ourselves a "BIG" club. At the moment, we're probably still "over-achieving" and still "plucky little Reading".

[Behindu]

It's about having your vocal fans all together all behind the goal .

Why ?
We have NEVER had our noisy fans behind a goal. Why break with many years of tradition ?

Put Pompey fans in a new stadium, in the middle of nowhere, with little drinking facilitiy then scatter all their fans around their new 'home' and see how much noise they make.

Pompey's fans are scattered round Fratton. And they sing all round Fratton.
No one has scattered Reading fans round the Madejski, there is a huge block in Y25/Y26 who all sing, sadly too many seem to prefer winding up stewards to making a noise consistently.