JM is confident we'll stay up

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Blue Hooped Moose
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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Blue Hooped Moose » 20 Jan 2010 14:50

RoyalBlue Failing to invest sensibly (to enable you to operate effectively within the market in which you seek to compete) can be a very effective way of ensuring that you go bust, albeit possibly in the longer term.


Players cannot be seen as investments - an injury (Dean Ashton) or loss of form (Berbatov) and you're screwed. What Madjeski HAS invested in is the infrastructure of the club (Academy, Training ground, stadium, hotel) which surely can be classed as a sensible investment?

When we signed Mills for £2m the vast, vast majority of people thought "Cracking signing" and probably "a good investment for the future" - so far that investment has largely failed.

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Terminal Boardom » 20 Jan 2010 14:59

Blue Hooped Moose
RoyalBlue Failing to invest sensibly (to enable you to operate effectively within the market in which you seek to compete) can be a very effective way of ensuring that you go bust, albeit possibly in the longer term.


Players cannot be seen as investments - an injury (Dean Ashton) or loss of form (Berbatov) and you're screwed. What Madjeski HAS invested in is the infrastructure of the club (Academy, Training ground, stadium, hotel) which surely can be classed as a sensible investment?

When we signed Mills for £2m the vast, vast majority of people thought "Cracking signing" and probably "a good investment for the future" - so far that investment has largely failed.


Dont be so frigging blinkered (which is a lot more polite than what I was going to put). Why do you think clubs have insurance policies? If players are not to be regarded as investments, why "invest" in an Academy? When you join the real worl please let e and the rest of us know.

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Blue Hooped Moose » 20 Jan 2010 15:08

Terminal Boardom Such good assets Wycombe that we are bottom 3 :roll: And if they aren't assets, then why were they sold off to repay the overdraft?

Because we needed the money - doesn't make them assets. In the real world making redundancies doesn't reduce the value of your company as you haven't lost any assets. Essentially an asset is something you can borrow against - Man Utd couldn't go to a bank and say "Lend me £10m - look, we'll put up Rooney as an asset"

Terminal Boardom And how do you conclude that we would get any more money for Harps and Rosie? They will be free agents in the summer so we would get zilch.

Fine, take them out - the point still stands. The current squad would still probably fetch more than than 05-06 squad.

Terminal Boardom Dont be so frigging blinkered (which is a lot more polite than what I was going to put). Why do you think clubs have insurance policies? If players are not to be regarded as investments, why "invest" in an Academy? When you join the real worl please let e and the rest of us know.

I'm not being blinkered - i'm just not mixing up fluffy PR terms like "invest for the future" with the real financial world*, a world where you cannot class a player as an asset or an investment (go check the Reading FC accounts and let me know where any player is listed as an asset).

*Remember, it's the real financial world that has made all these chickens come home to roost and why so many clubs are in trouble.

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Thaumagurist* » 20 Jan 2010 15:12

Blue Hooped Moose I'm not being blinkered - i'm just not mixing up fluffy PR terms like "invest for the future" with the real financial world*, a world where you cannot class a player as an asset or an investment (go check the Reading FC accounts and let me know where any player is listed as an asset).


I wonder if the correct word to use here for players is "resource"?

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Wycombe Royal » 20 Jan 2010 15:21

Players are assets, but they are not financial assets in accounting terms.

Players can also be investments, but again not investments in accounting terms.

In these cases they are just descriptive words.


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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Millsy » 20 Jan 2010 16:07

West Stand Flash F*ck off Madejski you tight ****.


+1

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by brendywendy » 20 Jan 2010 17:01

-1


Then we risked finances by keeping the majority of our squad together and continuing to pay Premiership wages, only to fail to achieve promotion. Mark two.

We then had to sell the majority of our recognisable stars, or loan them out to get them off the wage bill. Mark three.

We then failed to bring in much quality to replace the likes of Doyle, Bikey, Harper ( ) and instead replaced them with Academy failures or Championship chumps. Mark four.


cant have 2 and 3, as they contradict each other
either one is wrong, or the other is
& 4 is just the natural result of 3.

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Barry the bird boggler » 20 Jan 2010 17:31

Another load of PR cobblers from the board. If we do stay up it won't be any thanks to him!

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by leon » 20 Jan 2010 17:32

brendywendy -1


Then we risked finances by keeping the majority of our squad together and continuing to pay Premiership wages, only to fail to achieve promotion. Mark two.

We then had to sell the majority of our recognisable stars, or loan them out to get them off the wage bill. Mark three.

We then failed to bring in much quality to replace the likes of Doyle, Bikey, Harper ( ) and instead replaced them with Academy failures or Championship chumps. Mark four.


cant have 2 and 3, as they contradict each other
either one is wrong, or the other is
& 4 is just the natural result of 3.


I know you play the fool, but really? Have you thought this post through? The guy is listing why we're f*cked, and it's all true....and as for 4 being the natural result of 3?? jesus christ - words fail me.


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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by brendywendy » 20 Jan 2010 17:38

cant say i thought it through that hard- didnt really need it
, but oxf*rd off you arsey twat anyway :roll:

1stly he wasnt saying these are reasons why we are oxf*rd, he was saying these are reasons we are oxf*rd due to poor board decisions

i maintain: keeping squad together cant be a bad thing, if breaking up squad is a bad thing too

you cant go "oooo were oxf*rd cos we kept our squad together"
and "ooo were oxf*rd cos we split it up"
what were they supposed to do, split it up last season? this simply moves the problem forward a year, and sees us in league 1 already

and if your having to break up a squad due to high wages and costs, it makes it highly difficult(impossible) to bring in people of equal, or even approaching equal quality/ability, due to their higher wages and cost
therefore academy boys and championship journey men is all open to you- ie the natural result

if they are "all true" as you assert, they are just symptoms, not causes IMO

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Arch » 20 Jan 2010 17:48

leon
brendywendy -1


Then we risked finances by keeping the majority of our squad together and continuing to pay Premiership wages, only to fail to achieve promotion. Mark two.

We then had to sell the majority of our recognisable stars, or loan them out to get them off the wage bill. Mark three.

We then failed to bring in much quality to replace the likes of Doyle, Bikey, Harper ( ) and instead replaced them with Academy failures or Championship chumps. Mark four.


cant have 2 and 3, as they contradict each other
either one is wrong, or the other is
& 4 is just the natural result of 3.


I know you play the fool, but really? Have you thought this post through? The guy is listing why we're f*cked, and it's all true....and as for 4 being the natural result of 3?? jesus christ - words fail me.
Words fail the majority of people who post here.

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Re: JM is confident we'll stay up

by Ian Royal » 20 Jan 2010 18:09

SteveRoyal
SteveRoyal The issue is the decisions of the board.

We'll assume that under Coppell, there weren't many decisions to be made regarding manager, staff, etc. but there was the issue of buying players of Prem quality - which we didn't. Mark one.
This can't really be laid at the board seeing as everyone involved has confirmed money was made available. The signings we did make were poor, you can't blame the board for that, its football decisions and therefore the manager and scouting team.
Also Coppell himself has admitted to nearly signing several players and then getting cold feet in case they "disrupted his squad", for example O'Neill and Cahill.
Mark One Debunked.


Then we risked finances by keeping the majority of our squad together and continuing to pay Premiership wages, only to fail to achieve promotion. Mark two.

Firstly we didn't continue to pay Premier League wages, the wage budget was cut considerably, it just remained extremely high for the championship despite that.
Is this such a fault? Is it even that high a risk gamble? Afterall there's no sniff of administration about the club DESPITE being threatened with relegation from the championship two years after relegation from the Premiership. That's fairly impressive given the likes of Charlton, Leeds & Saints financial plights recently.
The fans would have been fuming if the board hadn't made this decision. There was already enough bitching that we didn't spend enough on players. And it would have paid off if some of our key players hadn't just stopped turning up after Xmas last season. Very nearly paid off convincingly.
Mark Two Debunked.


We then had to sell the majority of our recognisable stars, or loan them out to get them off the wage bill. Mark three.
This is essentially an extension of Mark Two and given if we had not kept the finances the season before the players would have gone then. So your point is completely flawed. You want one thing in the previous point and another thing in this. Also, regardless of the money situation we were never going to keep players who are considered by many who count to be Premier League quality.
Mark Three Debunked


We then failed to bring in much quality to replace the likes of Doyle, Bikey, Harper ( :roll: ) and instead replaced them with Academy failures or Championship chumps. Mark four.
Ridiculously harsh on a lot of the players making the step up this season. You simply can't expect every player to be a success. Rasiak, Howard, McAnuff, Bertrand, Sigurdsson, Karacan & Church have all done well and are all fairly new to the team. I'd also argue that only O'Dea has been a failure, with the rest still having plenty of potential.
People seem to fail to realise a championship club can't replace Premier League quality players with Premier League quality replacements. The deficiencies in the squad upfront last season are coming home to roost this season, at least partly due to an injury. And defensively we've been unfortunate in that Mills hasn't been as big as a success as hoped.
Again, this is much more of an issue for the manager and scouts
Mark Four Debunked

Most importantly, is the appointment of Rodgers'. I'm of the opinion that he came in at the wrong time.
He came into a Reading squad that had been dismantled in a matter of months, and then had to try and remake the squad with a "cloth cutting" amount of money. He then had to get his "world class" ideas across to the squad, which barely knew each other and had played together for a very small amount of time. Mark five.
This is a fair point, though it is still worth remembering that Rodgers spent double the money of any previous Reading manager in the championship. In fact he spent close to Coppell's spending in the first Premier League season. We've never been huge Champ spenders, but regardless of that £3.5m should still get you plenty of quality at this level. Certainly enough with the players remaining that we should have been able to consolidate.

If Rodger's had come in in a few years time, then perhaps he may have succeeded - we'll never know. He may get a second shot, although many Reading fans now hate him for the predicament he got us in.

Again, this is a fair comment.

Then the sacking of Rodgers'. Sack the man that got us here, then have a scout manage the squad. Uhh... wtf? :|

It all comes down to the performance of the manager. There is no question that his performance with us was sackable. The only dispute can really be the timing and whether he was going to manage to turn it around. Opinion seems split pretty half and half on that, so you can hardly blame the board for that decision.
Yes you can have a valid point about the replacement, but it is still way too early to judge McDermott, afterall he has come into a situation half way through a season. Rodgers by comparison had months to work with the players before kicking off. Rodgers supporters wanted him to have yet more time and you couldn't judge him after 21 league games, yet can judge Mcdermott (who has a near identical record so far) after 4!!!??
The decision in the summer was obviously for new direction and an outside eye. The board obviously have decided that was the wrong decision and now believe continuity is key. That may not be right, but it's hardly a terrible decision to complain about. Especially when it's way too early to judge McDermott.


So, 6 major decisions, 6 major impacts on our predicament now. 2 major decisions
Can't sack the board, because we have nobody to replace them. Can't sack the board regardless, but you're right, no point in calling for them to go without a viable alternativeCan't sack the chairman, there's nobody there to buy it. Essentially the same thing as the previous point seeing as JM and two of his employees are the board.
Can't sack the manager, there isn't one. We could sack the manager as it is Mcdermott, but three managers in a season is going to do no one good and it's too early to tell how good he is yet.
What we need is to get a manager in and then hope that the hierarchy at RFC make the right decisions to get us out of this mess. What WE need to do, is get behind the club, get behind the players and do everything we can to lift us. We need to back McDermott because he is the man in charge and if it all goes wrong then is the time for gnashing of teeth and recriminations. The only effect we can have is on atmosphere.

Short-term, who knows what's going to happen?



That's a well put across argument but it has massive flaws in it. I think you are double counting in several places and also having ago at one thing, then criticising the club for doing the opposite.

You're also failing to take into account that you're viewing everything with 20/20 hindsight and that much of football is a gamble. It looks great when it comes off and when it doesn't it looks very poor.

Comments in Blue in you post.

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