Not Hard to see progress for the forseeable future

[Royal Lady]

Were you at the Wolves game on Tuesday night Ian? If so, you were watching a different game to me! Their hearts weren't in it. Our passing was woeful, our corners and set pieces pretty rubbish.

[Sun Tzu]

And these signings - when will be playing them? A £300k player who can't even get in Ipswich's first team is unlikely to make a massive difference to our play in the Premiership, should we get back there.

Ineed, like Shorey (200k signing who couldn't get in a Div 2 team( didn't, or Hunt -( free signing who couldn't get in a Div 1 side didn't )

Surely, "progress" would be being able to maintain a position in the Premiership for a number of seasons. If we don't go up, how can that be progress? If we go up, don't invest, come back down, how is that "progress".

Well perhaps that's the problem - the goal posts can always be shifted because 'progress' can mean whatever you want it to mean. The original post clearly saw that UNLESS we progressed we would be a mid table side, lose players, not get promoted and play dull and uninspiring football. So progress in this context must be doing better than that....

Sometimes, Ian, I think you just like arguing with Schards and it wouldn't matter what he said, you'd argue the point.

And the alternative is for people to just post 'declarations' to which no counter is allowed ?

[Sun Tzu]

Were you at the Wolves game on Tuesday night Ian? If so, you were watching a different game to me! Their hearts weren't in it. Our passing was woeful, our corners and set pieces pretty rubbish.

That can only be written in order to generate a response !

We beat the league leaders, a makeshift defence kept a clean sheet against a team with 50+ goals this season, we created the best (only ?) chances of the game and all without our hearts being in it ? Poppycock !

Some people seem to have a very black and white attitude to football - there are more ways for a game to be good than by thrashing the opposition 6-0....

[Royal Lady]

No, of course not, but they lose credence when the counter argument is so lame.

[Ian Royal]

And Ian, I thought the point had been made by a number of posters that far from being a difficult division to get out of, this season the teams in it are dire!

A few people have said that. One of them your husband, who I happen to agree with very little on most things recently.

I personally don't think the division is especially worse than any other season. It just seems that way having watched Prem football for two years and seen our team perform fantastically well the season before.

Overall quality doesn't necessarily change that it's a difficult division to get out of.

But seeing as you are totally unprepared to to listen to reason and moderate your particular view, I'm not sure I can be bothered anymore.

[Ian Royal]

Were you at the Wolves game on Tuesday night Ian? If so, you were watching a different game to me! Their hearts weren't in it. Our passing was woeful, our corners and set pieces pretty rubbish.

yes I was.

Tbh I'm convinced I live in a different universe to you.

[Royal Lady]

Were you at the Wolves game on Tuesday night Ian? If so, you were watching a different game to me! Their hearts weren't in it. Our passing was woeful, our corners and set pieces pretty rubbish.

That can only be written in order to generate a response !

We beat the league leaders, a makeshift defence kept a clean sheet against a team with 50+ goals this season, we created the best (only ?) chances of the game and all without our hearts being in it ? Poppycock !

Some people seem to have a very black and white attitude to football - there are more ways for a game to be good than by thrashing the opposition 6-0....

I don't ever expect us to thrash anyone 6-0. If you can, hand on heart, say that the whole team played to the best of their abilities and gave the game their best shot, I'd be very surprised. As far as I was concerned, there was little passion to be seen. Lita showed it, but he had a point to prove.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't ever expect us to thrash anyone 6-0. If you can, hand on heart, say that the whole team played to the best of their abilities and gave the game their best shot, I'd be very surprised. As far as I was concerned, there was little passion to be seen. Lita showed it, but he had a point to prove.

It's that black and white problem again....

Of course the whole team didn't play to the best of their abilities, I'd question whether there has been a game in the history of the sport where every player has played their best for the whole 90 minutes. Doyle was very quiet, Kelly was nervy and Duberry seemed to go missing for an hour.

I didn't see anyone not trying, and I think it's a pretty odd accusation to make of a team who've won a very tough game.

It was a real battle, there wasn't a lot of great technical skill on display but there was a huge amount of grit and detemination. Alex Pearce showed no passion ? Stephen Hunt put in no effort to force the goal ? Cisse didn;t put in a hugely committed display against a very strong attack ?

Come on, it wasn;t a great match of free flowing football but I thought it was a fascinating 90 minutes.

[Archie's penalty]

Were you at the Wolves game on Tuesday night Ian? If so, you were watching a different game to me! Their hearts weren't in it. Our passing was woeful, our corners and set pieces pretty rubbish.

yes I was.

Tbh I'm convinced I live in a different universe to you.

[Schards#2]

For the record Schards. We did play well against Watford. Some people just don't have the wit to see it. We also played pretty well against Wolves. Not up to the same standard we've apparently seen this season and certainly not up to 05/06 or 06/07, but then as I said earlier you'd have to be a dribbling imbecile to think you were going to see performances of that quality regularly this season.


Your post certainly seems like another knee jerk reaction. Afterall as I've pointed out before, as have others, QPR were one of the division's form teams and a draw at their place is not a bad result. And of course there is at least one neutral report - the only one I've read - that we were the better team. And I say again, it sounded like we had two or three good chances to win the game, that just didn't go our way.

As I didn't see the Watford game, I haven't given my personal opinion on it - oh, that other would follow this example. I noticed Watford had the majority of possession though.

As for Wolves, a fighting win but the performance was woeful. Two half chances in the entire 90 minutes.

As for yesterday, i'm presuming you weren't there. We were terrible, QPR had the one clear chance (header at the end of the first half). They were far superior first half and we just about edged a scrappy second half without creating anything but a goalmouth scramble.

Just as a thought, when is a critical post not a knee jerk reaction as my post is after several weeks of poor performances. I guess you'd prefer any criticism is left until around 2011 to avoid this allegation.

For the record, I thought Keith Scott had a mare against Wrexham.

[Sun Tzu]

Two half chances in the entire 90 minutes.
.

Why not be fair though and include the 3 very good chances we had as well.....

[glass half full]

Premiership standard of football has been pretty dire this weekend, so maybe it is the weather.

[Sun Tzu]

In 05-06 we were told by many that it was a poor division and that was why we dominated.

I'm wondering whether we've actually seen more trams playing decent football this season than we did then. I can;t recall being over impressed by most of the teams that season whereas this season the likes of Burnley, Swansea, Cardiff, Southampton and Doncaster have looked quite good.

I can also recall a few dodgy games by us that year (even Leicester away was not a great performance - but a great result !)

[Schards#2]

Two half chances in the entire 90 minutes.
.

Why not be fair though and include the 3 very good chances we had as well.....

Because there weren't any?

Free kick from Hunt, snapshot from Harper, and that's about it.

[Sun Tzu]

Two half chances in the entire 90 minutes.
.

Why not be fair though and include the 3 very good chances we had as well.....

Because there weren't any?

Free kick from Hunt, snapshot from Harper, and that's about it.

You have an odd definition of a 'half chance' !!!! Those were full on chances.

There was a header from Hunt well saved by Hennessey as well

[Ian Royal]

For the record Schards. We did play well against Watford. Some people just don't have the wit to see it. We also played pretty well against Wolves. Not up to the same standard we've apparently seen this season and certainly not up to 05/06 or 06/07, but then as I said earlier you'd have to be a dribbling imbecile to think you were going to see performances of that quality regularly this season.


Your post certainly seems like another knee jerk reaction. Afterall as I've pointed out before, as have others, QPR were one of the division's form teams and a draw at their place is not a bad result. And of course there is at least one neutral report - the only one I've read - that we were the better team. And I say again, it sounded like we had two or three good chances to win the game, that just didn't go our way.

As I didn't see the Watford game, I haven't given my personal opinion on it - oh, that other would follow this example. I noticed Watford had the majority of possession though.

As for Wolves, a fighting win but the performance was woeful. Two half chances in the entire 90 minutes.

As for yesterday, i'm presuming you weren't there. We were terrible, QPR had the one clear chance (header at the end of the first half). They were far superior first half and we just about edged a scrappy second half without creating anything but a goalmouth scramble.

Just as a thought, when is a critical post not a knee jerk reaction as my post is after several weeks of poor performances. I guess you'd prefer any criticism is left until around 2011 to avoid this allegation.

For the record, I thought Keith Scott had a mare against Wrexham.

You know what. I just can't be bothered.

[LUX]

Schards,

I am one of those who agrees you have a point, but you and RL seem to have gone a bit OTT today, not sure what brought this on. You both seem to have it in for our current team. No-one can deny we are handily placed but that no team looks that good. We are not scintilating, not dominating things like in 05-06 (but there were a surprising number of scrappy games in that season too. I was at Palace home and away and I'll never know how we got four points from those two games.............loads of other examples even from that fantastic season).

I'd especially take issue with your assessment of the Championship.

How would you think Boro or Blackburn (did you see the highlights of their game yesterday? or even Fulham or West Ham (who are both top half of the Premiership) would do in this League? Not to mention Stoke, Hull, WBA, Adams' Pompey, Newcastle, Sunderland (I watched the NE derby this afternoon and the quality was awful).

Swansea (not even in the playoff positions) outclassed Portsmouth away, Cardiff pushed Arsenal all the way, Burnley have beaten/ pushed all the way half a dozen Premiership clubs this season, including Chelsea, Aresenal, Spurs, WBA............Derby (Derby!!!!!!) beat a fairly full strength Man U in the first leg. Donny could have beaten Villa. OK, these were all Cup games but by definition that's all we've got to go on. Three of the above examples are still unresolved.

I think it's great that any one can beat anybody in our League. With the possible exception of Charlton (er, who put four past us), any team is capable of getting a result against the top three.

[Millsy]

1 Wolves 29 10 2 2 29 13 8 3 4 28 23 59 +21
2 READING 29 12 2 1 37 8 5 4 5 21 18 57 +32
3 Birmingham 29 10 2 3 20 12 6 5 3 16 14 55 +10

So nuff said re: how good we are at the mo.

Case closed.


With regard to PROGRESS though I'm with Royal Lady..... if we go up then crash back down etc that to me is NOT progress. It's just being a yo-yo whilst we're lucky enough to have Coppell and we are GUARANTEED to go crashing down to League 1 or lower when he eventually leaves.

Progress = going up, getting some balls and getting a more realistic wage structure allowing decent calibre players in... getting a foothold in the Prem and staying there for a few years. THAT is progress. Another magical lift from the Championship God Coppell is just another flash in the pan.

[eleventh earl of mar]

Having seen Reading spend some time going between the 3rd and 4th tiers of the League, I for one would consider being a "yo-yo club" between the top two tiers as progress.

[Ian Royal]

1 Wolves 29 10 2 2 29 13 8 3 4 28 23 59 +21
2 READING 29 12 2 1 37 8 5 4 5 21 18 57 +32
3 Birmingham 29 10 2 3 20 12 6 5 3 16 14 55 +10

So nuff said re: how good we are at the mo.

Case closed.


With regard to PROGRESS though I'm with Royal Lady..... if we go up then crash back down etc that to me is NOT progress. It's just being a yo-yo whilst we're lucky enough to have Coppell and we are GUARANTEED to go crashing down to League 1 or lower when he eventually leaves.

Progress = going up, getting some balls and getting a more realistic wage structure allowing decent calibre players in... getting a foothold in the Prem and staying there for a few years. THAT is progress. Another magical lift from the Championship God Coppell is just another flash in the pan.

Your table is a bit out of date.

1 Wolverhampton 30 23 62
2 Reading 30 32 58

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 Birmingham 30 10 56

Dropping back to League 1 when he leaves would be a failure and regression. But it is absolutely not guaranteed in the slightest.

Yoyoing worked for several clubs currently in the Prem. hanging around top end Chumpionship and bottom end of Premiership is progress. It keeps good money coming into the club, a high profile. Keeps a good level of success to build support. It puts us in a position to be ready to make a real push to establish ourselves at the top in a few years time.

A push now, is still slightly premature, unless we change the entire way the club is run. Less than 10 years ago we were a League 1 team (all be it a fairly big one). Expecting us to become an established Prem side so soon, having spent less than half a dozen seasons in the Championship is asking rather too much IMO.