Next Season

[Vision]

Bottom line.

Who honestly thinks we'd be higher in the table if Karacan had played as many games as Harper or Cisse , Pearce had played as many games as Ivar or Duberry, Henry had played as many games as Kebe or Kelly had played as many games as Rosenior?

Without doubt.

Where does this absolute certainty come from?. Not the same place that saw you predicting Derby and Paul Jewell as champions I hope.

[CMRoyal]

Bottom line.

Who honestly thinks we'd be higher in the table if Karacan had played as many games as Harper or Cisse , Pearce had played as many games as Ivar or Duberry, Henry had played as many games as Kebe or Kelly had played as many games as Rosenior?. Hell if Cox had stayed do you think we'd be higher if he'd played the same games as Doyle.?

Don't get me wrong from a personal perspective I'd much rather see the make up of the side take that sort of shape but Its stretching credibility to think we'd be in a play-off spot with those players all playing the majority of the season.

Agreed. I thought we'd see those players more, but if we had, we probably would have finished in the 8th-10th place region. On the bright side, if we do fail to go up, they have a bit of experience under their belt now ready to put to full use in next season's (presumably) overhauled side.

[Hoop Blah]

Personally I think if we'd seen a bit more of Henry instead of Kebe and Karacan instead of Cisse I think we might well have been better off, but I agree with your general point.

I've no doubt that Cisse over the whole season would've been more effective than Karacan but using the two of them to get the most out of each is where the art of management takes over. Neither are as good as Sidwell was when he drove the midfield during the last promotion campaign.

It's finding that blend that really counts though, and I do think Coppell has failed to find it at times this season, as he did last season as well.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Neither are as good as Sidwell was when he drove the midfield during the last promotion campaign.

Obvious statement of the day. I struggle to see why anyone would think that this current crop of players would be able to emulate that golden year.

[Woodcote Royal]

Bottom line.

Who honestly thinks we'd be higher in the table if Karacan had played as many games as Harper or Cisse , Pearce had played as many games as Ivar or Duberry, Henry had played as many games as Kebe or Kelly had played as many games as Rosenior?. Hell if Cox had stayed do you think we'd be higher if he'd played the same games as Doyle.?

Don't get me wrong from a personal perspective I'd much rather see the make up of the side take that sort of shape but Its stretching credibility to think we'd be in a play-off spot with those players all playing the majority of the season.

But then i don't see being in the play-off positions and in with a chance of automatic promotion to the Premiership for only the second time in our history with 6 games left as failure either.

The bottom line is that our management has under achieved over the last 2 seasons.

It's our managers job to produce success on the pitch.

I (and I suspect yourself to a certain degree) am of the view that we would be significantly better placed now had the performances of our younger players been built upon rather than them being sidelined to facilitate the return of Steve's trusty favourites. This would have been the preferred route for many of us who have the best interests of the club at heart but, it was never the only option available to our manager.

Throughout this time of under achievement, both manager and Chairman have readily pointed out that funds have always been available to strengthen the squad.

Whilst few would complain about the impressive acquisitions of Noel Hunt and Armstrong, only Coppell's apologists would refuse to accept that both our missing youngsters and the lack of signings are largely thanks to our managers refusal to move on from his team of 3 years ago.

I believe the time has now arrived for RFC to do that job for him

[Vision]

Hunt and Armstrong are impressive acquisitions but neither are anywhere near as good as the players they were bought to replace at their best. More funds were available than we used I've no doubt but whether they were enough to improve on those that left , got older or just lost form is massively open to debate. Hence why what we got were players with talent but unproven at the level we were playing at. Even the Gary O'Neill's and Gary Cahill's of this World weren't exactly proven at this level but were going for twice our transfer record fee. Its just not a gamble us as a club are willing to take. I'm happy with that but am also happy to agree with people when they say we didn't do all we could to stay up last season. Personally I'm perfectly happy without that gamble. Once again this season teams that have spent millions in doing that will still get relegated.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether this season is a failure given that we're still very much involved in a promotion battle. Its certainly better than i predicted at the start and indeed many of those expressing their disappointment.

[Schards#2]

Another games passes and another U turn by the village idiot. Thats now...

4 weeks ago - Coppell should go

3 weeks ago - Only a fool would get rid of Coppell

2 weeks ago - Coppell Must go

Post Doncaster/Crystal Palace - Coppell should stay

Post Coventry - Coppell should go now


The logic of the primary school. (Apologies to any primary school children reading this)

[Hoop Blah]

Neither are as good as Sidwell was when he drove the midfield during the last promotion campaign.

Obvious statement of the day. I struggle to see why anyone would think that this current crop of players would be able to emulate that golden year.

I didn't say I did think that though.

My point was that with Sidwell he was good enough, especially in the partnership with Harper, to play pretty much the whole season and maintain a very high level of performance.

Our current players can't maintain their top levels of performance for as long and so the manager needs to be able to read his players and rotate them more (which Coppell has done more of this season) in order to get the best out of those midfielders available.

[brendywendy]

when will people understand that 4th in teh championship is us at least reaching our potential as a club


higher is over achievement

Untrue.

FACT

[brendywendy]

Bottom line.

Who honestly thinks we'd be higher in the table if Karacan had played as many games as Harper or Cisse , Pearce had played as many games as Ivar or Duberry, Henry had played as many games as Kebe or Kelly had played as many games as Rosenior?

Without doubt.

FACT

[brendywendy]

The squad we had at the start of last season should not have gone down if the right improvements had been made.

there is no should, nor should not


there are plenty of sides this season that think they should not be going down, it still remains a lottery between about 6 clubs for that last place

and newcastle et al have "better"players than we had

who is to say what the "right" improvements are
before 05/06 most were saying brynjar, lita, doyle and long etc werent the "right" improvements
and this speaks volumes about what individual team board posters know about this kind of thing

[Royalee]

Bottom line.

Who honestly thinks we'd be higher in the table if Karacan had played as many games as Harper or Cisse , Pearce had played as many games as Ivar or Duberry, Henry had played as many games as Kebe or Kelly had played as many games as Rosenior?

Without doubt.

FACT

I'm surprised you can spell 'fact'.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

The squad we had at the start of last season should not have gone down if the right improvements had been made.

there is no should, nor should not


there are plenty of sides this season that think they should not be going down, it still remains a lottery between about 6 clubs for that last place

and newcastle et al have "better"players than we had

who is to say what the "right" improvements are
before 05/06 most were saying brynjar, lita, doyle and long etc werent the "right" improvements
and this speaks volumes about what individual team board posters know about this kind of thing

We're a very differnet club to Newcastle. I get the point that you don't know what will happen, but last season wasn't unavoidable. Coppell admited his mistakes pre January, then made them again in January. We made do last season and it cost us badly.

[brendywendy]

Without doubt.

FACT

I'm surprised you can spell 'fact'.

"im surprised you can spell fact" said loudly with my tongue wedged into my bottom lip like a joey




and youve missed the difference between a fact and a FACT-theyre totally different
the upper case lends mine far more weight

[brendywendy]

The squad we had at the start of last season should not have gone down if the right improvements had been made.

there is no should, nor should not


there are plenty of sides this season that think they should not be going down, it still remains a lottery between about 6 clubs for that last place

and newcastle et al have "better"players than we had

who is to say what the "right" improvements are
before 05/06 most were saying brynjar, lita, doyle and long etc werent the "right" improvements
and this speaks volumes about what individual team board posters know about this kind of thing

We're a very differnet club to Newcastle. I get the point that you don't know what will happen, but last season wasn't unavoidable. Coppell admited his mistakes pre January, then made them again in January. We made do last season and it cost us badly.

what im saying is that most of the clubs inteh bottom half have "quality players" of the sort who people clamoured for us to buy last season,
and it aint helping them much this season, thats all


and thats without starting teh argument about whether we could really hve attracted them here

[Woodcote Royal]

Hunt and Armstrong are impressive acquisitions but neither are anywhere near as good as the players they were bought to replace at their best. More funds were available than we used I've no doubt but whether they were enough to improve on those that left , got older or just lost form is massively open to debate.

Not for me it isn't, especially considering the number of times we've read those "I'm happy with what I've got" statements from Coppell in the last 2 years, not to mention the £12m? (I admit I've lost count ) we've raked in since relegation.

Whilst I didn't expect us to sign Premiership players following relegation, Armstrong who, like Shorey, has played there, bears far closer comparison to his predecessor than you suggest.

In my view, what he lacks from dead ball situations he makes up for in defence but even if I agreed with your assessment, we are talking about our player of the season here who was acquired for shirt buttons in comparison to the proceeds of last summers end of season sale and within weeks of Shorey's departure.

This last point illustrates not just how cheaply and easily we replaced our left back with another star performer but also the extraordinary lengths to which our manager was prepared to go to hang on to one of his favourites regardless of performance.

I've never been Shorey's greatest fan but he thoroughly deserved his England caps in 2006-7 yet his performances and attitude the following season were little short of disgraceful.

It simply beggared belief that not only did Coppell not see fit to provide some cover for a player who clearly no longer wished to play for us but that, even 12 months later, he was prepared to play a left winger in defence whilst he was hoping against hope that Shorey would stay.

This incident alone made me start to fear that we could come to bitterly regret imploring Coppell to stay.

Unlike fans who would prefer us not to be promoted, I know it's the only place where we can realise our ambitions.

However, thanks to our manager, we are now in no fit state to be promoted this season which would appear to suit far too many of Coppell's apologists.....................and hence why I've already listed this season as our second successive failure.

[Vision]

Alternatively thanks to our manager we are still in with a chance of a return to the Premiership whilst despite only regularly having at best 3 or 4 players remaining from the Golden Team and in a period of transition. I think whilst that is taking place and the books being balanced then being involved in the promotion shake-up doesn't equal failure in my book. Coppell has never been a quick-fix merchant and if he was considered a failure and discarded after his first 2 seasons then we'd never have seen the unprecedented success of the following 2 seasons.

Obviously you feel differently so theres not much point in arguing that one any longer to be honest.

[Woodcote Royal]

Another games passes and another U turn by the village idiot. Thats now...

4 weeks ago - Coppell should go

3 weeks ago - Only a fool would get rid of Coppell

2 weeks ago - Coppell Must go

Post Doncaster/Crystal Palace - Coppell should stay

Post Coventry - Coppell should go now


The logic of the primary school. (Apologies to any primary school children reading this)

Good Lord, Schards, another stellar contribution, how will the rest of us ever compete?

You appear to be the only one who is struggling to comprehend this particular village idiots views on the future of our manager........................and in some ways it would seem fair to just let others draw their own conclusions.

However, having said that, it's now 4 days since we played Coventry (my last offering on this matter that appears to have confused you)

Have you really been sat in front of your PC all this time summoning up the courage to ask me?

Hey, I won't bite!! Ask away



For the record.

I want a new manager in place for next season regardless of what league we are in and have now said so on countless occasions over recent months.

When I watch promising performances like Doncaster I feel there is some point in him staying for the final few games of this campaign but, when I witness what we saw at Coventry it seems to me that we might as well cut our losses and start preparing for the next .

So, basically, all this confusion, not to mention many childish insults on your part that would cause embarrassment in thousands of classrooms up and down the county, revolves around a few end of season matches.

HTH

[papereyes]

The squad we had at the start of last season should not have gone down if the right improvements had been made.

...

Sorry, brenders, but add in a proper right winger and a combative midfielder with experience of the rough and tumble of English football and we'd have significantly increased our chances of staying up. To miss out in the Summer is actually excusable (even if posters like your good self spent months arguing that losing Sidwell would actually improve the team ) but to miss out again come the January was what surely sealed our fate. One could bring up that 'post-January points thread' - didn't we end up bottom no matter how one counted it?

Given that the margin ended up being so tight ... well, my argument writes itself.

If you're going to whinge about how much it cost, let's say we take the £2.5 odd million spent on Fae or the £4-5 million bid on Pantsil and Scott Brown.

Note to self: Scott Brown - - had we signed him, we'd never have struggled the way we did.

what im saying is that most of the clubs inteh bottom half have "quality players" of the sort who people clamoured for us to buy last season,
and it aint helping them much this season, thats all

Half the clubs in the Premiership are going to struggle FFS. Just adding a touch of quality in key positions where we made do last season would almost certainly have made that difference - a loss turned to a draw, a late goal against someone like Blackburn or Spurs or a committed performance against Fulham (twice) or Bolton (twice).

[brendywendy]

Alternatively thanks to our manager we are still in with a chance of a return to the Premiership whilst despite only regularly having at best 3 or 4 players remaining from the Golden Team and in a period of transition. I think whilst that is taking place and the books being balanced then being involved in the promotion shake-up doesn't equal failure in my book. Coppell has never been a quick-fix merchant and if he was considered a failure and discarded after his first 2 seasons then we'd never have seen the unprecedented success of the following 2 seasons.

Obviously you feel differently so theres not much point in arguing that one any longer to be honest.

4th place-challenging for promotion at the very least

totally new team, transition nearly complete-like you said very few players per match day squad from that golden team

and not only that, but almost an entire team of youth teamers ready to step into the first team if we dont go up

aswell as being one of the only clubs in the country run in a financially viable fashion

and still they moan