WHO IS TO BLAME?

[Southbank Old Boy]

The millions he wasted on bench warmers and the reliance on Coppell signings did not help

He was criticised on here for deliberately NOT playing Coppell signings at the start of the season! With a limit chance to bring in new players, and one spectaular cock up in the Smith saga, what else could he do?

The millions wasted being the one signing I take it? I don't know how much Cummings cost, but I don't think it would've been a significant amount in the general scheme of things...could be wrong there though. So thats Mills and Cummings plus a loan signing that he bought in and didn't start. His other signings have all come good haven't they?

Bertrand
Rasiack
McAnuff
Howard

As I think I said earlier today, all managers make errors in the transfer market, and I still think Mills will probably come good in the long term if given the chance and the right partner alongside him. Interesting point someone else made was that Mills may also have been someone the club had lined up already, so not totally a Rodgers purchase.

What killed BR was the character of his signings. Mills, Cummings and espicially Howard we're said by BR to be really strong characters who could lead this side. In reality we got a little boy, a big time charlie and Howard The Coward. Espicially when Rosenior and Harper were shipped put for not having enough character.

That and the £££ it was going to be saving us

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

I heard it was BR who was really pushing for Rosenior and Harper to go.

Whether that's just a covinient tale I don't know..

[Ian Royal]

I am going to go with Ian here - it's not as if BR was given no money. He was given the best part of 4 million quid minus the Smith saga

Any half decent manager would have supplemented the squad (departures included) with that money and have us around mid-table

I don't agree.

The losses to the squad were massive and that was from a squad that failed to win at home for 4 months, amassing a massive 20 points from the last 17 games. To take out a large chunk of that first team squad, including some of it's best players, and ask for much more than what was delivered is a bit unrealistic.

As for £4m to spend, he was backed reasonably by the board, and I don't blame them for not giving him more (taking into account the money that was also available for Smith) but I do blame them for sacking him just as things were starting to piece together (unless there are things we don't know about).

I'm not saying Rodgers was blameless by any means, but I think he was in a very difficult position and he was making an OK job of re-building a squad decimated by the events of the previous 2 seasons.

That team lost loads of players that weren't performing. Shouldn't have been too hard to replace them with ones that might.

He rebuilt the squad reasonably well, although it had just as many gaping holes as Coppell's second Premier League season one, with almost as much spent.

He just totally arsed up the first half of the season anyway.

The squad is (mostly) good enough to survive without a massive problem. With the exception of upfront with Long gone shitter than ever and Hunt injured for the season. But then who failed to take action to rectify that when it was obvious a month or two into the season with a loan window still open.

The only difference between the two opinions seems to me to be Mags, Hoop Blah & Co obviously think our squad is relegation fodder and therefore the problems lie in the poor management of the Club and previous seasons failures.

Whereas those who agree with me think that those mistakes were made, but that the squad was still good enough, if handled well, to consolidate, especially with the unprecendented resources available to Reading Manager in the Championship. Therefore it was Rodgers poor stewardship of the Team that leaves us up shit creek looking for the paddle now.

Either way it doesn't really matter. We're still in the same place. We still can't magic money to spend on players, we still can't pick the next manager, or wind back the clock. We can't pick the team tactics and formation.

So it's all a bit fricking pointless.

About all we can do is hope that the players don't lie when they say the crowd can boost performances and results and get behind the team and push them on.

We desperately need a unifying figure and a ray of hope. Because I'm damn sure Madejski isn't going to randomly pump millions in, or sell to some sort of football genius billionnaire who wants to spunk half his fortune on our club for very little prospect of any gain. And it doesn't matter who comes in, even if I'm right and the squad was good enough, it's still in the mire right now and it's one thing to start the season and muddle along in midtable, it's another thing entirely to bodily haul yourself out of the shit and up the table without some real quality coming in.

[Hoop Blah]

That's a fairer assessment of the situation Ian, although I obviously disagree on the strength of the squad and how we got here, that does become the crux of the issue.

I'm not sure how it can be so easy to re-build a whole new team from the rubble of the last two seasons though. If it were that easy then you wouldn't see so many managers losing their jobs or so many teams consitently losing games.

We might not have been performing well last season, but the team and in effect the squad were built around a number of key individuals and had taken 5 years to build. We lost pretty much all of those individuals over the summer. Replacing players of the quality of Doyle, Hahnemann, Harper, Bikey and even Rosenoir, Lita and Kitson (from the squad that Coppell knew we needed). I don't see how that can be easy to replace.

Looking at the current squad I'm not sure how you can say it's mostly good enough to survive without much of a problem as it's still lacking in too many areas, with Rodgers partly to blame for that of course.

It is such a fine line between success and failure, especially in this league, and so it's even more difficult to find that winning balance because so many teams can beat each other on any given day.

[Silver Fox]

I heard it was BR who was really pushing for Rosenior and Harper to go.

Whether that's just a covinient tale I don't know..

I've certainly heard tell of personality clashes with Harps, what are the rules with season long loans, can we get him back? PLease note this question does not apply to Rosenior, we already have a better right back in Jay Tabb

[Platypuss]

I heard it was BR who was really pushing for Rosenior and Harper to go.

Whether that's just a covinient tale I don't know..

I've certainly heard tell of personality clashes with Harps, what are the rules with season long loans, can we get him back?

Not unilaterally, but perhaps if Sheff U were to agree.

[facaldaqui]

I've certainly heard tell of personality clashes with Harps, what are the rules with season long loans, can we get him back? PLease note this question does not apply to Rosenior, we already have a better right back in Jay Tabb

They can't come back, because their loans are tied to fees; Ipswich paid a loan fee for Rosenior, and I expect Harper's move was tied up with that of Howard. It's a type of arrangement used for players who are coming up to the end of their contract and is good business for Reading. (Except on the field--I wish we still had both of them, warts and all.)

[Platypuss]

Actually:

48 Standard and Emergency Loans
48.1 Standard Loans. Subject to the provisions of Regulation 47.3, Standard Loan transfers shall only be approved in accordance with following provisions:-
48.1.1 Subject to the proviso that the duration of a Standard Loan must be the time between two Registration Periods, Standard Loans can be for half a Season or a full Season.
Any recall clause requiring the early termination of a Standard Loan can only be included in a full Season Standard Loan and this can only be activated during the second (January) Registration Period .
48.1.2 Notwithstanding the provisions of Regulation 48.1.1, a Standard Loan of a goalkeeper (but not otherwise) may be subject to a recall clause exercisable at any time. Any recall may only be implemented in extenuating circumstances and with the consent of the Executive, such extenuating circumstances to be determined in the Executive's absolute discretion. A goalkeeper shall not be permitted to resume any Standard Loan following the exercise of a recall.
48.1.3 A Club can have a maximum of 4 Players under 23 and a further 4 Players over 23 on a Standard Loan during any Season. The deadline for determining a Player's age in this respect shall be 30 June prior to the Season in which the Standard Loan is intended to take place.
48.1.4 No more than 2 Players who are over 23 may join one Club from another Club on a Standard Loan in any Season.
48.1.5 Standard Loans which subsequently become permanent transfers shall not count against a Club's quota of such Standard Loans for that Season.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

There could be all sorts of clause involved.

In general though clubs will pay a fee to take the player and then have the option to extend the loan in January by paying another fee.

The Harper deal I would imagine is complicated by the signing of Howard. We couldn't afford for Sheff Utd to terminate the loan leaving us with Howard and HArper on the wage bill.

[RoyalBlue]

It's funny how other clubs can come very close to being subject to a winding up order and yet still talk about £3M for transfers in.

From BBC Sport:

"Chairman Peter Ridsdale promises cash raised from a season ticket idea will go towards bolstering Jones' squad.

Jones said: "If we get £3m, we can do a lot of damage in the transfer window."

Cardiff had a winding order dismissed by the High Court last month after the club did a deal with Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs over an undisclosed debt.

The Bluebirds also reached a settlement with the Langston Corporation in December over a long-standing £15m debt while Malaysian businessman Datuk Chan Tien Ghee is a recent addition to the club's board, bringing hopes of fresh investment.

And now the play-off contenders have had their transfer kitty boosted by an estimated £3m thanks to a season ticket initiative which will see supporters get a full refund on their 2010/11 passes should Cardiff win top-flight promotion.

The Bluebirds have sold more than 10,000 season tickets for next season already - and have extended their refund deadline to 6 January - and manager Jones' squad expect to be the beneficiary of the commitment of Cardiff fans. "

It's also interesting to note that they have added a potential investor to their board, which would seem to answer the Madejski disciples who bleat on about there being no-one interested in investing in football clubs at present. Of course, in the past, Madejski has always appeared very reluctant to share his club with anyone else, despite being someone who never makes a decision on his own!

[Southbank Old Boy]

I dont think holding up Risdale, of all Chairman, as a better alternative to the way SJM runs things is a very strong arguement

It sound like Cardiff are mortgaging against future success again. Thats great if it works, and even then they are throwing away a lot of ST revenue, but if it doesnt and they stay down then they will already have spent next years money in this window

Doesnt sound like a sound long term plan to me, but perhaps they know that have to get success this season before they lose a few of their better players

[Southbank Old Boy]

Reported today that Cardiff are under threat of administration

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Reported today that Cardiff are under threat of administration

...yet another club who spend recklessly because they see administration as a get out of jail free card.

Clubs who get into trouble spending money they haven't got should be kicked out of the league completely, like in Germany.

[Sun Tzu]

It's funny how other clubs can come very close to being subject to a winding up order and yet still talk about £3M for transfers in.

The sort of amount we spent in the last window you mean ?

Plenty of clubs spend money they don't have. It can work really well. None of us have any knowledge of the internal workings of any of these clubs though and from the little I do know about clubs there are some many variations in how they are structured, the people who run them etc etc it's very hard to look at how one club runs and say 'we should do that'. Not impossible, and of course you'd hope clubs are always looking at how to learn from each other. But Wigan are different to Hull who are different to Fulham who are different to Cardiff and all are different to us.