PLEA TO Y25/Y26

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Jerry St Clair
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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Jerry St Clair » 20 Sep 2011 19:22

Svlad Cjelli Why other clubs get away with allowing their supporters to stand if they choose to do so? - Do they? Examples, please?


I've been to Wigan 4 times and stood on every occasion. On one of them we had pretty poor support of a few hundred I think, and I was one of 3 people stood on the back row. We were at the end of a row next to a steward stood in the gangway. He did not ask us to sit down at any point. There was no critical mass, and no threat of a public order breakdown ( :lol: ) so I can only conclude that he allowed us to stand.

On the other occasions there were more standing but still only 4 or 5 rows deep. Again, I would say that this is well within the criteria for sending stewards in to enforce the rules.

hence, i simply don't buy the argument that all clubs enforce the law equally. Some are more prepared to turn a blind eye than others.

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FiNeRaIn
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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by FiNeRaIn » 20 Sep 2011 19:38

Jerry St Clair
Svlad Cjelli Why other clubs get away with allowing their supporters to stand if they choose to do so? - Do they? Examples, please?


I've been to Wigan 4 times and stood on every occasion. On one of them we had pretty poor support of a few hundred I think, and I was one of 3 people stood on the back row. We were at the end of a row next to a steward stood in the gangway. He did not ask us to sit down at any point. There was no critical mass, and no threat of a public order breakdown ( :lol: ) so I can only conclude that he allowed us to stand.
.


If that was a tuesday night game when forster scored, I know EXACTLY the damn steward you were on about. He was sound.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by who are ya? » 20 Sep 2011 19:47

Muguire
Friday's Legacy there are a good few hundred that really do like to sing and make some noise, but it's those (me) same people that need to make a point of simply not shutting up at home games. so what if it's just a few hundred at first? others will join in, and when they don't at least there is still noise and that in turn does reach the players and does make a difference.


THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...
THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...THIS...


RAISE THE FUCKING BAR PEOPLE :!: :!: :!: :!:

Stop using the excuse of having to sit on your fat arse meaning your mouth doesn't work :!:

Make noise, keep making noise, and regarding this battle with the oxf*rd stewards, why aren't you playing the game with them? Toy with them for oxf*rd sake!! Let them walk up, sit back down, start another chant and stand, then sit down for a minute, sing another etc... throw in moments of excitement, whatever they are, and you are actually on your feet more than sat down anyway :!:

It's not half as bad as some of you lot make out, and you can have a bit of fun with the yellow coats too if you play it right.

Stop yo bitchin' and play them at their own game, and find your voices. The more you sing, the more boisterous you appear, the less likely they'll want to walk amongst you too.

Don't make me come in here again, y'hear me :!: :!: :!:

POW :!: :!:

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Svlad Cjelli » 20 Sep 2011 22:27

Sarah Star Probably extremes, but I get the impression that there are some fans in Y25/Y26 who relish the chance the chance to have a go at some of the stewards. The standing thing just gives them an excuse and they wouldn't have it any other way. On the other hand there are those who resolutely want to sit down whatever and would fight to the death for that right. Then, in the middle there's a whole group who couldn't care less whether they stand or not.

OK, maybe I'm just stating the obvious.


I don't think you are - it's not obvious at all. You're making the mistake of generalising that people only want to stand so they can have a go at the opposition fans and stewards - which is frankly simplistic and quite offensive.

Amongst that middle demographic you dismiss is a whole set of supporters who aren't in the slightest bit interested in goading or provoking anyone - but who just prefer to stand to watch football matches. I can provide you with a whole host of statistics to support this.

And, if your asserting that those who want to stand want to do so to provoke the opposition, I'd suggest that the simple answer tis to put a safe-standing area at the opposite end of a ground from the away area. If what you say is true this will quickly and simple remove the flashpoint.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by floyd__streete » 20 Sep 2011 22:39

Sarah Star Probably extremes, but I get the impression that there are some fans in Y25/Y26 who relish the chance the chance to have a go at some of the stewards.


:|

What a clueless suggestion. Have you seen the dynamic of the average Y25/26 inhabitant? They are more likely to collect stickers than bruises. I say again that the Mad Stad stewards are flat-track bullies who are lucky enough to have the pansiest set of supporters going upon which to enforce their fussiness. Views like the above let the club get away with their OTT methods.


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FiNeRaIn
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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by FiNeRaIn » 20 Sep 2011 22:41

floyd__streete
Sarah Star Probably extremes, but I get the impression that there are some fans in Y25/Y26 who relish the chance the chance to have a go at some of the stewards.


:|

What a clueless suggestion. Have you seen the dynamic of the average Y25/26 inhabitant? They are more likely to collect stickers than bruises. I say again that the Mad Stad stewards are flat-track bullies who are lucky enough to have the pansiest set of supporters going upon which to enforce their fussiness. Views like the above let the club get away with their OTT methods.


lmfao agreed. If the stewards didn't nag everyone to sit down, there would be no problems. Its a simple solution.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Compo's Hat » 20 Sep 2011 23:45

Jerry St Clair
Svlad Cjelli Why other clubs get away with allowing their supporters to stand if they choose to do so? - Do they? Examples, please?


I've been to Wigan 4 times and stood on every occasion. On one of them we had pretty poor support of a few hundred I think, and I was one of 3 people stood on the back row. We were at the end of a row next to a steward stood in the gangway. He did not ask us to sit down at any point. There was no critical mass, and no threat of a public order breakdown ( :lol: ) so I can only conclude that he allowed us to stand.

On the other occasions there were more standing but still only 4 or 5 rows deep. Again, I would say that this is well within the criteria for sending stewards in to enforce the rules.

hence, i simply don't buy the argument that all clubs enforce the law equally. Some are more prepared to turn a blind eye than others.


I have been in grounds where the stewards have actually come up to me (in a friendly manner) and said we're happy for people to stand as long as it isn't blocking the view of others.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Sarah Star » 21 Sep 2011 03:45

Svlad Cjelli
Sarah Star Probably extremes, but I get the impression that there are some fans in Y25/Y26 who relish the chance the chance to have a go at some of the stewards. The standing thing just gives them an excuse and they wouldn't have it any other way. On the other hand there are those who resolutely want to sit down whatever and would fight to the death for that right. Then, in the middle there's a whole group who couldn't care less whether they stand or not.

OK, maybe I'm just stating the obvious.


I don't think you are - it's not obvious at all. You're making the mistake of generalising that people only want to stand so they can have a go at the opposition fans and stewards - which is frankly simplistic and quite offensive.

Amongst that middle demographic you dismiss is a whole set of supporters who aren't in the slightest bit interested in goading or provoking anyone - but who just prefer to stand to watch football matches. I can provide you with a whole host of statistics to support this.

And, if your asserting that those who want to stand want to do so to provoke the opposition, I'd suggest that the simple answer tis to put a safe-standing area at the opposite end of a ground from the away area. If what you say is true this will quickly and simple remove the flashpoint.

I think you're all missing the point and I wonder if it's because it's the hooligan element the press like to portray. I'm not suggesting those that just want to stand want to have a go at all nor that they are the average supporter. I'm saying that there are probably a few that would like to who spoil it for the rest - particularly in Y25/Y26 where those who want to stand are concentrated and there are more stewards. I did say extremes. Opressive tactics like blatent filming are likely to inflame those who like the confrontation even more. To say there isn't anyone like that is a bit blinkered and doesn't make your argument any better. That's why your answer of a safe-standing area at the other end of the stadium is a good one and one which I understand the club are amenable to, but would involve huge changes that they can't do at the moment.

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FiNeRaIn
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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by FiNeRaIn » 21 Sep 2011 08:52

Sarah Star That's why your answer of a safe-standing area at the other end of the stadium is a good one and one which I understand the club are amenable to, but would involve huge changes that they can't do at the moment.


Yes, anything whih requires the spending of funds we can most definitely chop off the list for the next decade.


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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Compo's Hat » 21 Sep 2011 21:53

There really is no difference to those that sit and those that stand in that area. You will always get a few who throw abuse at the opposition regardless of it's at the top or the bottom. Your arguement really doesn't hold up at all.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Sarah Star » 22 Sep 2011 00:06

Well, there clearly is a difference between those that want to stand and those that want to sit in that area, to put it bluntly, some want to sit and some want to stand. This probably causes a few arguments - probably more so in Y25/Y26 as out of the whole stadium that is where the most people try to stand more often. In my view safe-standing isn't just for those who want to stand but for those who don't.

Yes, you will always get people who try to abuse the opposition. This is a separate argument. There are those who deliberately wind-up the stewards. Not everyone who stands does it, but I've never seen anyone do it sitting down. I'm sorry if that makes it look like I'm arguing that those standing up are more badly behaved. That's not the case.

I'm trying to say that not everyone is the same.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by leicsRoyal » 22 Sep 2011 07:59

I tend to get to more away games than home games but know a few of the faces from Y25/26.
I don't think you can generalise between standing and taunting away fans, yes of course there is the banter between both sets of supporters, that happens at every single ground across the country.
Y25/26 are there for the same reason as anyone else in the stadium, they love their football, love Reading FC and want to enjoy the 90 minutes of football and all that comes with it. Every ground has an area that is considered to be more vocal, that's why people spend hundreds of pounds on season tickets for this specific area.
Much of the singing/chanting will start from this area, usually from the same dozen or so people. Whether that is singing for one of your own players or having banter with the oppo fans, it builds atmosphere and the players respond to this.

Yes I'm old school and will stand wherever I am but only with the consideration of others. I'm there to support my team and get behind them vocally, just for me I feel I can do this better whilst standing.

I've not read the full Taylor report but surely when you have paid for a designated seat there is no more of a Health and Safety concern whether you decide to stand and sing or sit down. Just have consideration for others, which I believe on the whole Y25/26 do.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by roadrunner » 22 Sep 2011 09:04

leicsRoyal I tend to get to more away games than home games but know a few of the faces from Y25/26.
I don't think you can generalise between standing and taunting away fans, yes of course there is the banter between both sets of supporters, that happens at every single ground across the country.
Y25/26 are there for the same reason as anyone else in the stadium, they love their football, love Reading FC and want to enjoy the 90 minutes of football and all that comes with it. Every ground has an area that is considered to be more vocal, that's why people spend hundreds of pounds on season tickets for this specific area.
Much of the singing/chanting will start from this area, usually from the same dozen or so people. Whether that is singing for one of your own players or having banter with the oppo fans, it builds atmosphere and the players respond to this.

Yes I'm old school and will stand wherever I am but only with the consideration of others. I'm there to support my team and get behind them vocally, just for me I feel I can do this better whilst standing.

I've not read the full Taylor report but surely when you have paid for a designated seat there is no more of a Health and Safety concern whether you decide to stand and sing or sit down. Just have consideration for others, which I believe on the whole Y25/26 do.


^^ This ^^


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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Svlad Cjelli » 22 Sep 2011 09:11

It's a simple fact that the arguments on standing/sitting are no longer anything to do with safety.

The accident statistics - obtained by FOI request - show this, and even the FLA have now acknowledged that safety is not an objection.

So please, don't get sidetracked on the safety question - standing at a football ground is categorically as safe as sitting at one, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise does not understand the arguments.

(in fact, the most likely time for there to be an injury when watching football is when leaving or entering the ground, and the most likely accident that you will encounter is "scalding by hot liquids.")

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by leicsRoyal » 22 Sep 2011 10:03

Sorry Svlad, didn't ask the question properly.

As far as I am aware it was a safety issue that brought about all seated stadiums in the first place. Now that it has been proven that there is no link between standing and being unsafe, why do the stewards insist on everyone sitting, even if you are on the back row?


A theatre is an all seated complex but you are actively encouraged to stand up at many shows.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Svlad Cjelli » 22 Sep 2011 10:16

leicsRoyal Sorry Svlad, didn't ask the question properly.

As far as I am aware it was a safety issue that brought about all seated stadiums in the first place. Now that it has been proven that there is no link between standing and being unsafe, why do the stewards insist on everyone sitting, even if you are on the back row?

A theatre is an all seated complex but you are actively encouraged to stand up at many shows.


Because "rules is rules" and the FLA representative and the local councils for some clubs are a lot more stringent about seeing those rules enforced than others. If you have the misfortune of supporting a club where there is such adherence to rules then the club has no option that to be seen to be enforcing them as much as possible. At Safety Advisory Group meetings the FLA inspector asks the club to demonstrate what steps they are taking to prevent standing.

Remember that the FLA exists primarily to enforce the standing regulations - so it would be suicide for them as an organisation (and as individuals) to be seen to be showing common-sense and flexibility.

In some areas there is a more common-sense approach, and some informal local arrangements, where standing is unofficially tolerated in certain areas - with zero-tolerance elsewhere. But these are unofficial and tend to be stamped down on as soon as the FLA find out about them, so I won't name them here.

To answer the actual question, though - yes, of course it's complete sense to have those who want to stand at the back and those who want to sit at the front, and some clubs do (again, unofficially) recognise this.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by Svlad Cjelli » 17 Oct 2011 12:37

The latest poll on safe standing shows 66.3% of football fans would support a return to standing. Only 17.3% opposed it, with the rest undecided.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/215957/Fans-make-their-stand/

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by ZacNaloen » 17 Oct 2011 12:48

How many were polled?

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by paultheroyal » 17 Oct 2011 12:52

1000 fans from 90 clubs - just LOL.

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Re: PLEA TO Y25/Y26

by melonhead » 17 Oct 2011 12:58

big enough sample size tbf

& anyone who didnt answer could be assumed to not mind either way

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