Zingarevich Out!!!

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Roberts was a free that could have been done with SJM as owner, they have indeed invested bugger all and can't asking for results when they don't provide the resources they promised SJM and BM when SJM sold.

Exactly! Where's the oxf*rd money??? If "Invest nothing, then blame the manager" is our business model then we are bound to fail over and over.
This guy was supposed to have deep pockets, turns out all he has is empty pockets - with holes in them!

Once the managers available catch on to our owner's way of doing things, we won't be able to attract anyone of any sort of standing, only the castoffs will be interested.

Except JR wasn't on a free we had to pay. Interesting that AZ provided funds to keep Kebe & get Roberts & that helped us go up yet people are moaning about the supposed lack of money. Surely what has happened this week proves he had money & didn't use it?

I said elsewhere....maybe JM had too much influence in Aug & AZ should have forced the issue more? Or alternatively BM should have shown more balls & demanded more money rather than being a yes man?

[Caskeys Lovechild]

Except JR wasn't on a free we had to pay. Interesting that AZ provided funds to keep Kebe & get Roberts & that helped us go up yet people are moaning about the supposed lack of money. Surely what has happened this week proves he had money & didn't use it?

That's bollocks.

If I went to my wife, and said "I want to buy a Ferrari" - assuming we could afford it, then she'd go "OK, great, lets do it".

If I then said "The Ferrari has fallen through, but instead, I want to buy 4 middle of the road BMW's that will do half the job of the Ferrari, for the same outlay" - she'd tell me to oxf*rd off and stop wasting money.

This is exactly the same. With less engines.

Just because £10m was available for Sigurdsson, does NOT mean that £10million was in the transfer kitty - it means those in charge had seen their "Ferrari"

[P!ssed Off]

Except JR wasn't on a free we had to pay. Interesting that AZ provided funds to keep Kebe & get Roberts & that helped us go up yet people are moaning about the supposed lack of money. Surely what has happened this week proves he had money & didn't use it?

That's bollocks.

If I went to my wife, and said "I want to buy a Ferrari" - assuming we could afford it, then she'd go "OK, great, lets do it".

If I then said "The Ferrari has fallen through, but instead, I want to buy 4 middle of the road BMW's that will do half the job of the Ferrari, for the same outlay" - she'd tell me to oxf*rd off and stop wasting money.

This is exactly the same. With less engines.

Just because £10m was available for Sigurdsson, does NOT mean that £10million was in the transfer kitty - it means those in charge had seen their "Ferrari"

What a crap analogy. "exactly the same" = LOL. Why would one man need 4 cars? 11 + people are required for a football team, a man only needs one car.

Perhaps a better car analogy would be one man owns a fleet of 11 taxis. These taxis are all old bangers and lack any sort of class; subsequently no one wants to ride in the man's taxis, the business is failing.
The man has money to replace the taxis. He can either buy a ferrari to replace one taxi or he can buy four mid-range cars to replace 4 of his old bangers. He can do either, but what would be a stupid idea would be to do nothing and keep his fleet of bangers the same.

[Caskeys Lovechild]

Except those 4 new cars are still not cars which would make his business viable because he can't afford limousines - just a few Daewoos. So he would have spent all that money, and landed up where he started - whereas with the Ferrari, he could have at least had one incredible car to drive his customers around in, with a serious return, to subsidise his other old bangers.

I like car analogies.

[Caskeys Lovechild]

I am also not sure why anyone would use a Ferrari as a taxi... But ho hum

[Vision]

There are two kinds of teams that get promoted from the Championship. Teams that do the Championship thing better than the others, and teams who are too good for the Championship. The former (Watford, Burnley, Derby, Wolves, Hull, Birmingham, Reading) don't tend to prosper when they go up; the latter (Newcastle, West Brom, Swansea for example) are better equipped.

I think you'll find that under their new manager and with a partnership that is already paying dividends, Watford have moved across to the latter category.

I'm not sure that Watford fit ant category that's gone before the way they've gone about it this season. I'm also not convinced that Swansea were a too good for the Championship team either. They've made some very astute signings (and mainly non Premiership proven btw) since promotion nearly all of whom have come off to some degree. Norwich were similiar.

I'd also wonder where Southampton or QPR fit into this categorisation?

[Delboy]

Childish post

[melonhead]

The new (so-called) investors who haven't invested (a couple of million here and there is sweet FA for what's needed for the PL) can absolutely feck off. I want my club back. Of course MCD "wasted" some of that money. Name me a manager that has got every transfer decision right. Whar's happened to the millions from playing being in the PL. Even Madejski could have spent a few million with the influx of PL money. The so-called investors have done nothing for this club excelpt start to turn it into a Little Chelsea.

They also played a hugely significant role in getting us promoted last season. Without Roberts goals, and by all accounts he was on a hefty wage for the Championship, we would not be in the Premier League today.

Roberts was a free that could have been done with SJM as owner, they have indeed invested bugger all and can't asking for results when they don't provide the resources they promised SJM and BM when SJM sold.

invested about 15 million quid more into the team than SJM would have done

[P!ssed Off]

In fairness, iirc Zingarevich's main promise regarding transfers was not that he would buy good players, but that he would not sell our best players.

I think our most valuable players in the summer (assuming Pearce leaves on a free and Pog's got a get out clause), will be Le Fondre, Kebe, Mariappa, Morrison, Federici and McCarthy. These are the players that a Prem team might realistically want to buy.

If we go down Anton might be justified in selling one of our keepers (they are of similar quality, only need one). But if Anton sells more than one of: Le Fondre, Kebe, Mariappa and Morrison then he has gone back on his word and will rightly be considered untrustworthy in future transfer windows.

[Royalwaster]

Except JR wasn't on a free we had to pay. Interesting that AZ provided funds to keep Kebe & get Roberts & that helped us go up yet people are moaning about the supposed lack of money. Surely what has happened this week proves he had money & didn't use it?

That's bollocks.

If I went to my wife, and said "I want to buy a Ferrari" - assuming we could afford it, then she'd go "OK, great, lets do it".

If I then said "The Ferrari has fallen through, but instead, I want to buy 4 middle of the road BMW's that will do half the job of the Ferrari, for the same outlay" - she'd tell me to oxf*rd off and stop wasting money.

This is exactly the same. With less engines.

Just because £10m was available for Sigurdsson, does NOT mean that £10million was in the transfer kitty - it means those in charge had seen their "Ferrari"

What a crap analogy. "exactly the same" = LOL. Why would one man need 4 cars? 11 + people are required for a football team, a man only needs one car.

Perhaps a better car analogy would be one man owns a fleet of 11 taxis. These taxis are all old bangers and lack any sort of class; subsequently no one wants to ride in the man's taxis, the business is failing.
The man has money to replace the taxis. He can either buy a ferrari to replace one taxi or he can buy four mid-range cars to replace 4 of his old bangers. He can do either, but what would be a stupid idea would be to do nothing and keep his fleet of bangers the same.

So he buys a first class Portuguese taxi but just parks in the garage alongside a Geordie one ...

[Tilehurst End]

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/sou ... reading-fc

[Royal Lady]

LOL @ all this. Firstly, the money for Roberts was a LOAN - they didn't just throw money at us! But fair enough, in having that money up front we were able to get Roberts and afford his wages. Secondly, how much of the money spent on buying players has come out of TSI's own funds and how much is from the money given by going up, tv money etc etc....hmmmm?

[RoyalBlue]

LOL @ all this. Firstly, the money for Roberts was a LOAN - they didn't just throw money at us! But fair enough, in having that money up front we were able to get Roberts and afford his wages. Secondly, how much of the money spent on buying players has come out of TSI's own funds and how much is from the money given by going up, tv money etc etc....hmmmm?

How do you know it was a loan? And if it was, he is just taking a leaf out of the Madejski manual 'The Reading Way'!

What's more he was prepared to loan that money, and whatever was required to keep Kebe at the club, before he had bought the club and at a time when Madejski was unwilling to put any more money in (as a loan).

[melonhead]

defo a loan, said so at the time

that said, awfully kind of the bloke who didnt own the club at that point.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

defo a loan, said so at the time

that said, awfully kind of the bloke who didnt own the club at that point.

But has any money - any money at all - actually been put into the club since that initial loan that was talked about a year ago?

There's no proof any external funding whatsoever has been put in - and there's actually no need for it to have been - because the guaranteed revenue from this year in the Premier League is more than enough to pay for the increased expenditure of this season. We get the PL money at the end of the year, so at that stage will need to pay off overdrafts/loan notes secured on it which have been funding us through the season.

After that is the crunch time when we *will* need external funding, even after parachute money. If we don't get it then we will be in trouble ...

But the key point is that talk of "putting £15M in" is absolute bollocks - my understanding is that nothing external has been put in, and no-one has ever actually said anything has been.

[melonhead]

oh give it a rest!
i dont know what has happened to you dirk, but you have almost become the most negative bloke on here.

weve spent money we wouldnt have under JM. thats for sure.
whether thats from his pocket, or not, im happy that the purse strings have been released slightly.
the club and squad in my view has progressed in every transfer window since before he took over.
did it progress enough, not quite, but it definitely has.and im happy with that.

i see no evidence whatsoever of the downfall of the club youve been predicting since he took over.
when i do ill change my mind. but its silly doing the chicken licken when the sky hasnt even started falling in

[Alexander Litvinenko]

oh give it a rest!
i dont know what has happened to you dirk, but you have almost become the most negative bloke on here.

weve spent money we wouldnt have under JM. thats for sure.
whether thats from his pocket, or not, im happy that the purse strings have been released slightly.
the club and squad in my view has progressed in every transfer window since before he took over.
did it progress enough, not quite, but it definitely has.and im happy with that.

i see no evidence whatsoever of the downfall of the club youve been predicting since he took over.
when i do ill change my mind. but its silly doing the chicken licken when the sky hasnt even started falling in

Brendy, FFS stop seeing me as being negative and always knocking things - try reading what I've said and seeing what it says, rather than what you expect it to say.

I've just said that no external money has been paid in yet - and that there's been no need for external money to have been paid in yet.

I've not said the purse strings *haven't* been relaxed, I've not said any downfall is imminent, in fact I've deliberately not stated an opinion or made a prediction. There's no negativity in it - it's just a factual statement of how I understand the finances have been run this year.

The only point of yours that I'd argue with is the suggestion that anyone has "invested about 15 million quid more into the team than SJM would have done." Just how do you know that, or know what JM would have done?

Because the key point you seem to have missed that I'm trying to make - without being negative, just being factual - is that the extra expenditure that's been made this season is more than covered by the TV income that is guaranteed from a year in the Premier League - no-one is out of pocket by the extra that has been spent this season. No money needs to have been put in from outside for us to have spent what we have. So where does your £15M invested come from?

[melonhead]

tbf at no point had i said/meant it came out of his own pocket.
just that it had been spent.



i base it on the evidence to hand. last time we got to the premiere league, JM spent 1 million quid in the summer. and that was when he had money.
im just assuming that now he doesnt have money, and wont spend what he does have on the club that it would probably be less this time.
think thats pretty a fair assumption.

and tbf to TSI without their involvement lasrtr january we wouldnt have won the championship and wouldnt even be in the prem.

[Hoop Blah]

On the 'it was only a loan' front, I think it has to be done that way.

I'm not sure why but it seems all external injections of cash are done via a loan at whatever club you look at when an individual or owning company want to spunk more money on players etc. Perhaps one of the many bean counters on here could clarify or explain a bit more, but I believe even Abramovich's money is technically appearing as loans to Chelsea.

[winchester_royal]

Since when did 'investment' mean giving money away for free? As far I am aware investment has always implied an expectation of return, and has often taken the form of a loan.

There's not a single promise that Anton hasn't lived up regarding his vision, and last year's losses and reduced turnover shown just how much he was needed when he came along.

Quite frankly this is the most pathetic thread started up on the TB in a very long time.