MATCHWATCH : Aston Villa (a) sponsored by hoping it's 1959/1960 all over again

[Kingsley Junior]

I always keep in mind that Man Utd were a game away from being relegated under Ferguson.

Umm, no they weren't? They were 17th mid-season at one point but that's not a game away from relegation.

Get the point you're trying to make - Rome not built in a day etc. - but Ferguson had already performed wonders at Aberdeen by this point; not sure Clement has quite the managerial (not assistant) pedigree to take faith from Ferguson's later triumphs. I'm also not a dissenting voice on Clement either at this point so...

[CountryRoyal]

Another match without defeat!

3 games without defeat in all competitions, surely stopping the rot is important?

Must have imagined losing to Bolton. Come to think of it I did think it was a bad dream.

[RoyalJones]

Really happy with the point. Still see Paul Clement as more of a coach than a manager but that's not me calling for him to be sacked, think he could steady the ship, and some of the football we've played has been okay, but I don't think he'll take us to the next level (happy to be proved wrong), neither will most of this squad however. The Premier League seems a mile away considering we were at Wembley under two years ago.

[Snowflake Royal]

Constant managerial changes are necessary if you keep selecting duff candidates. Improvements so far since he's joined have been?

I always keep in mind that Man Utd were a game away from being relegated under Ferguson. Nor did they win anything for 3 years. Takes time to build a dynasty.

Sadly we didn't recruit him and, whilst I don't hate Clement, I honestly don't think he is going to proved to have that sort of Midas touch.

But anyway thank f*ck for a penalty - did we transfer McShane to Villa?!

He doesn't need to have a midas touch, you drama queen. He just needs to stabilise us and refresh the squad so it's no longer bloated with overpaid mediocrity. He's probably not going to be the manager to get us competing at the top of the table, but then nor is anyone else coming in whilst we're an absolute shambles. It is not get promotion or abject failure.

[windermereROYAL]

Fcuking amazing people are saying Clement can`t take us to the PL. what drugs are you lot on? we`ve finished 17th 19th and 20th in 3 of the last 4 seasons and you look to be pushing for the top spots.
It`s stability we needs give me mid table mediocrity any day for a few seasons, if he`s the guy to do it that`s fine by me.

[tmesis]

I always keep in mind that Man Utd were a game away from being relegated under Ferguson.

Umm, no they weren't? They were 17th mid-season at one point but that's not a game away from relegation.

Indeed. Ferguson was supposed to have been a game away from being sacked, but a cup win at Forest saved his job.

[RoyalBlue]

Listening to Liam Moore on BBC Berks now, boy am I even more glad that our owners insisted that he stayed. This guy has the character he is urging the rest of the team to display during games and is an out and out competitor. Don't think he has kids yet but, when he does, they will only win against him on merit!

[RoyalBlue]

Fcuking amazing people are saying Clement can`t take us to the PL. what drugs are you lot on? we`ve finished 17th 19th and 20th in 3 of the last 4 seasons and you look to be pushing for the top spots.
It`s stability we needs give me mid table mediocrity any day for a few seasons, if he`s the guy to do it that`s fine by me.

I thought the debate was more about whether he could achieve the relatively unambitious target you are talking about. Jury is still out.

[RoyalBlue]

I always keep in mind that Man Utd were a game away from being relegated under Ferguson. Nor did they win anything for 3 years. Takes time to build a dynasty.

Sadly we didn't recruit him and, whilst I don't hate Clement, I honestly don't think he is going to proved to have that sort of Midas touch.

But anyway thank f*ck for a penalty - did we transfer McShane to Villa?!

He doesn't need to have a midas touch, you drama queen. He just needs to stabilise us and refresh the squad so it's no longer bloated with overpaid mediocrity. He's probably not going to be the manager to get us competing at the top of the table, but then nor is anyone else coming in whilst we're an absolute shambles. It is not get promotion or abject failure.

You love to dish the abuse rather than debate things don't you! Perhaps your own arguments are somewhat lacking in strength and you feel you need to beef them up with some insults.

I didn't raise the (incorrect) Ferguson example. I was responding to the suggestion/justification that keeping Clement might result in him building a similar dynasty. That would require something of a Midas touch, as you yourself appear to suggest given your own, probably over dramatic, assessment of the current state of the club and squad.

As for having the ability to stabilise us, the jury is still out and awaiting further evidence.

[Hound]

That’s a cracking away point and just what we needed

But if spirit shown, not conceding a second etc

Now need to make up ground in the 3 very winnable looking home games we have coming up. Huge games already

[genome]

Don't think he has kids yet but, when he does, they will only win against him on merit!

He does.

[windermereROYAL]

Fair to say the Villains are not happy on their forums, they want Bruce out the door. and I thought it was just ours that were knee jerkers

[Zip]

Just seen the highlights and early on Villa looked good but thereafter we were the ones who should have scored with a couple of gilt edged chances. Baldock really should have buried his chance. The pen looked borderline and Sims really had no right to get to the ball in the first place.

[Snowflake Royal]

Sadly we didn't recruit him and, whilst I don't hate Clement, I honestly don't think he is going to proved to have that sort of Midas touch.

But anyway thank f*ck for a penalty - did we transfer McShane to Villa?!

He doesn't need to have a midas touch, you drama queen. He just needs to stabilise us and refresh the squad so it's no longer bloated with overpaid mediocrity. He's probably not going to be the manager to get us competing at the top of the table, but then nor is anyone else coming in whilst we're an absolute shambles. It is not get promotion or abject failure.

You love to dish the abuse rather than debate things don't you! Perhaps your own arguments are somewhat lacking in strength and you feel you need to beef them up with some insults.

I didn't raise the (incorrect) Ferguson example. I was responding to the suggestion/justification that keeping Clement might result in him building a similar dynasty. That would require something of a Midas touch, as you yourself appear to suggest given your own, probably over dramatic, assessment of the current state of the club and squad.

As for having the ability to stabilise us, the jury is still out and awaiting further evidence.

Wow. Talk about touchy. You get upset about being called a drama queen and think it's abuse? Get a grip.

Do I need to remind you that you were the one questioning his performance a stupendous 5 league games into the season, and suggesting that he should be sacked soon and was failing? And thinks constant managerial change is good?

Just how long does he need/expect to be given to improve things?!"

Constant managerial changes are necessary if you keep selecting duff candidates. Improvements so far since he's joined have been?

Any objective look at the situation can see clear improvements in performance, if not necessarily results, yet. Although again I'd point out that we lost the first three games and have just got two points out of two difficult away fixtures, one of which would have brought us the full three if it weren't for actions of one individual player. Or do you think it's Clement's fault that McShane lost his mind and committed the cardinal sin of lunging to ground inside the box for no good reason twice?

Our performance against Derby garnered a great deal of praise, we lost that unjustly thanks to a goalkeeping individual error and switching off with an absolute peach of a cross. Forest wasn't bad either. We are no longer pissing about with it at the back. We've gone more direct. The defence is tighter. He brought in strikers. He had a clear managerial plan with his signings, looking for experience and character. He's dropped players who've failed to perform.

Of course we're in a difficult place still, his decisions haven't been perfect. But if you can't even give him 10 games to see how his new signings bed in before running out of patience, it's you that has a bit of an issue.

No one suggested keeping Clement would see him building a similar dynasty to Ferguson. They merely pointed out that ditching a manager just because things don't always go well at the start means you miss out on the opportunity for them to do good things. The way you're talking, if you were in charge, Reading would never have made the Premier League, because you'd have sacked Coppell when he lost three games 3-0 over the winter period, and McDermott when we lost four of our first six league games (plus our first cup match).

Why you expect managers to just wave magic wands to fix deep seated and long running issues is beyond me. Sack Clement and it changes nothing. The club still has the same financial pressures - worse even because we'd have to compensate him. We still have the same owners, the same players, the same non-footballing management personnel, many of the same coaches.

We just picked up a good point. Live a little. Enjoy it. Go release your steam ranting to your family about Madejski.

[tee peg]

Subtle surgery on the squad will slowly pay dividends.

[Ascotexgunner]

How important is that goal? It may just be the turning point to not only the poor start to the season but the dreadful run we have been in since December. They have finally shown the backbone to fight back. It’s only a point but a bloody good one.
Now FFS Reading FC let’s start winning some League games.

Cmon Zip really? Just like at Leeds last season when everyone was saying "this will change our season". Every time we get a point or a win (and Christ they are rare) we keep hearing, " this will change our season" or "this will kick start the team" and every time nothing changes. Yeah we got a point today, so what, we threw 3 away in midweek. 3 wins in 30 still. Having to rely on dodgy penalty decisions just shows our desperation.

[Hound]

I know you’re no fan of Clement and respect that, but you have to accept a 1-1 at Villa is a decent result. Penalty looked as nailed on as McShane’s 2nd calamity on Wednesday

It may or may not kickstart our season but hopefully what it will do is restore some of the confidence we must have lost after Bolton

Obvs massive key now is to pick up a few wins in our home games - otherwise the effort today will have been a total waste

[Millsy]

Don't know what will happen.

The truth is the reason there are so many views on here as to whether or not we've played good teams or shit teams and who's better that who is because we're just so early in the season. We've either done well and could be high up the table was it not for bad luck and freak cockups or we are genuinely shit. We genuinely won't know until we play more games.

Perhaps Bod will turn out to be an absolute gem as his goal ratio is already suggesting. Baldock and McNulty will click with how we play. Barrow continues to terrorise, swift returns to form, bacuna finds the brilliant form we know he's capable of, Aluko suddenly decides to take his finger out his arse and live up to his price tag, Gunter comes in for an enviable fullback pairing of him and the impressive yiadom,.. Illori returns, walker turns out good or mannone solidifies.

The above is very possible and we could be looking at a team of playoff candidates we just don't know. It only took one player to turn things around when Roberts joined us and I think anything could happen here. A good win against villa honestly wouldn't surprise me. It's too early to tell.

The issue with comparisons to one player making a difference like Roberts, is back then we had a limited but exceptionally organised team who were used to going on winning streaks and toughing out harder times. They were fit, they played to the whistle, they knew their jobs, they worked as a unit. They just needed a bit more quality up top.

By contrast, this lot are disorganised, sloppy, confused, lost, used to losing and winning streaks are utterly alien to them.

Even look at the new signings (who I mostly like and approve of)
Yiadom - just got relegated so used to losing
O'Shea just fought four relegation battles losing the last two
Meyler - just fought a relegation battle and survived
Baldock - got promoted! But then barely played for a year

That's half our new signings either used to losing in the last year, or at least unfamiliar with winning in that time.

We're by no means even close to a good side. We've put in improved performances in three of our first four games this season, but we've picked up one point anyway. They don't have the mental fortitude to deal with that much longer before it destroys any hope of actual recovery. By game 10 the table has started to stabalise. By December it's pretty close to how it'll finish for most teams. If we don't pick up points soon we're forever playing catch up andfind ourselves in yet another relegation fight the players don't believe they're in.

Good points well made and I can't argue with any of that.

I don't disagree. My hunch is they're probably not that great but it is probably still too early to tell as you say. You're right, around 10 games is fair. One could say we got two solid away draws against good teams in the last two games, with 3 goals scored and that's a plus. The number of games is just too small and we can make almost any argument we want at the moment, but like you my hunch is this is probably a confused bunch at the moment. But then again they may gel over the next few games into something decent. The 1959 season started worse than this and we ended up 11th.

[Zip]

How important is that goal? It may just be the turning point to not only the poor start to the season but the dreadful run we have been in since December. They have finally shown the backbone to fight back. It’s only a point but a bloody good one.
Now FFS Reading FC let’s start winning some League games.

Cmon Zip really? Just like at Leeds last season when everyone was saying "this will change our season". Every time we get a point or a win (and Christ they are rare) we keep hearing, " this will change our season" or "this will kick start the team" and every time nothing changes. Yeah we got a point today, so what, we threw 3 away in midweek. 3 wins in 30 still. Having to rely on dodgy penalty decisions just shows our desperation.

It’s our first positive result of the season given that the Blavkburn game felt like a defeat on the end. It’s not like we are being hammered this season. All our games have been close affairs. We have made silly errors and lacked self belief so have failed to close the games out.

We are second bottom for a reason but at least it’s two games (both way) unbeaten and finally we have clawed back from being a goal behind. When was the last time we did that ? That’s what gives me a little bit of optimism. It will give the players a bit of a lift. However that chink of light will disappear if we fail to beat Sheff Weds. We need to win that one. So for Watford I hope we play our second string. We need our best available 11 next Saturday.

[windermereROYAL]

How important is that goal? It may just be the turning point to not only the poor start to the season but the dreadful run we have been in since December. They have finally shown the backbone to fight back. It’s only a point but a bloody good one.
Now FFS Reading FC let’s start winning some League games.

Cmon Zip really? Just like at Leeds last season when everyone was saying "this will change our season". Every time we get a point or a win (and Christ they are rare) we keep hearing, " this will change our season" or "this will kick start the team" and every time nothing changes. Yeah we got a point today, so what, we threw 3 away in midweek. 3 wins in 30 still. Having to rely on dodgy penalty decisions just shows our desperation.

Dodgy pens work both ways don`t they? didn`t a dodgy pen rob us of a win during the week?