BFT ???????????????????????????????????????????

[Hound]

Yep agree. And it’s a good point about Stam season 1. Everyone had a very clear and defined role. You could shut your eyes and tell someone pretty much where every player would be on the pitch. My memories of games that season are just a blur because every game was basically the same at home

When the ball is zipping about at 100mph, you haven’t got time to look up and see where your teammate is, it needs to be instinctive and ingrained. I suspect it’s one reason we are so slow moving the ball about, because we are having to do that

We also had two excellent crossers of the ball and targets to aim for in the box that year. And it works in the champ

[sandman]

Yep agree. And it’s a good point about Stam season 1. Everyone had a very clear and defined role. You could shut your eyes and tell someone pretty much where every player would be on the pitch. My memories of games that season are just a blur because every game was basically the same at home

When the ball is zipping about at 100mph, you haven’t got time to look up and see where your teammate is, it needs to be instinctive and ingrained. I suspect it’s one reason we are so slow moving the ball about, because we are having to do that

We also had two excellent crossers of the ball and targets to aim for in the box that year. And it works in the champ

"Ali, you make 20 saves and the rest of you try and cross it to Yann so we can sneak a win that we don't deserve"

[Old Man Andrews]

Yep agree. And it’s a good point about Stam season 1. Everyone had a very clear and defined role. You could shut your eyes and tell someone pretty much where every player would be on the pitch. My memories of games that season are just a blur because every game was basically the same at home

When the ball is zipping about at 100mph, you haven’t got time to look up and see where your teammate is, it needs to be instinctive and ingrained. I suspect it’s one reason we are so slow moving the ball about, because we are having to do that

We also had two excellent crossers of the ball and targets to aim for in the box that year. And it works in the champ

"Ali, you make 20 saves and the rest of you try and cross it to Yann so we can sneak a win that we don't deserve"

You don't come 3rd undeservedly or by accident. Ridiculous comment.

[Hound]

Yep agree. And it’s a good point about Stam season 1. Everyone had a very clear and defined role. You could shut your eyes and tell someone pretty much where every player would be on the pitch. My memories of games that season are just a blur because every game was basically the same at home

When the ball is zipping about at 100mph, you haven’t got time to look up and see where your teammate is, it needs to be instinctive and ingrained. I suspect it’s one reason we are so slow moving the ball about, because we are having to do that

We also had two excellent crossers of the ball and targets to aim for in the box that year. And it works in the champ

"Ali, you make 20 saves and the rest of you try and cross it to Yann so we can sneak a win that we don't deserve"

Ha. Worked though didn’t it?

other thing I'd add - is that when we got smashed at Fulham and Norwich, we went back and just doubled down on what we were already doing. No formation changes, panics, dropping players etc

[Denver Royal]

We rewarded last season’s best 2 players (Meite & Rino) with places on the bench - that can’t have done those players any good confidence wise.

Not really. It's fanspeak. It's more apt at youth level, but they are pro's. They need to be mentally tough, or find another living. If you get dropped, you should double down with renewed intensity and effort, and become a better player for it. They are well aware that getting dropped is part and parcel of the business, and they will have known that for many years, having played from very young ages. They'll get dropped again at some point by different managers. Who knows, for various reasons they may not have been quite ready to start the season anyway. It happens.

[muirinho]

Yep agree. And it’s a good point about Stam season 1. Everyone had a very clear and defined role. You could shut your eyes and tell someone pretty much where every player would be on the pitch. My memories of games that season are just a blur because every game was basically the same at home

When the ball is zipping about at 100mph, you haven’t got time to look up and see where your teammate is, it needs to be instinctive and ingrained. I suspect it’s one reason we are so slow moving the ball about, because we are having to do that

We also had two excellent crossers of the ball and targets to aim for in the box that year. And it works in the champ

"Ali, you make 20 saves and the rest of you try and cross it to Yann so we can sneak a win that we don't deserve"

Ha. Worked though didn’t it?

other thing I'd add - is that when we got smashed at Fulham and Norwich, we went back and just doubled down on what we were already doing. No formation changes, panics, dropping players etc

Agreed. Which also worked - after that 7-1 trashing at Norwich we won the next game at Villa 3-0

Also have seen comments after the Swansea and Wolves late draws of "you wouldn't have seen that under clement / stam /whoever". Which I reckon is horseshit. There have been limp displays under Gomes, and there were backs to the wall gutsy displays under Stam and Clement. It's just one of these cliches, like players not showing enough "passion".

Plenty witnesses to passion when we win, apparently there's none when we lose. But it's the same players.

[Millsy]

"Ali, you make 20 saves and the rest of you try and cross it to Yann so we can sneak a win that we don't deserve"

Ha. Worked though didn’t it?

other thing I'd add - is that when we got smashed at Fulham and Norwich, we went back and just doubled down on what we were already doing. No formation changes, panics, dropping players etc

Agreed. Which also worked - after that 7-1 trashing at Norwich we won the next game at Villa 3-0

Yeah very good point. Changing things when we lose is the easy way out. Oh it must have been the starting team or the formation it'll be ok if we just do this. No, how about stick to your gameplan and bollock some players into doing their job properly instead.

[Forbury Lion]

Stayed until the end..... but would have left early if I thought the park and ride buses were going to start departing before the end of the game.

[Hound]

There have been limp displays under Gomes, and there were backs to the wall gutsy displays under Stam and Clement. It's just one of these cliches, like players not showing enough "passion".

Plenty witnesses to passion when we win, apparently there's none when we lose. But it's the same players.

its a bit of a bugbear of mine that. Show more passion etc.

I cant claim to know any footballers, but I very much doubt they lose games due to lack of effort. Maybe very occasionally and odd individuals more than others. The one who I genuinely thought wasn't trying in recent times was Chris Martin, and then you find out about the fact he was in bits physically and it explains a lot

[Snowflake Royal]

There have been limp displays under Gomes, and there were backs to the wall gutsy displays under Stam and Clement. It's just one of these cliches, like players not showing enough "passion".

Plenty witnesses to passion when we win, apparently there's none when we lose. But it's the same players.

its a bit of a bugbear of mine that. Show more passion etc.

I cant claim to know any footballers, but I very much doubt they lose games due to lack of effort. Maybe very occasionally and odd individuals more than others. The one who I genuinely thought wasn't trying in recent times was Chris Martin, and then you find out about the fact he was in bits physically and it explains a lot

For the most part I agree, although a lot of our players regularly play within themselves or could easily give more, I wouldn't often say they aren't trying.

It's very hard to maintain intensity when it's all shit on the pitch.

There was very clear lack of effort on display against Charlton toward the end though. Pele in particular standing still doing nothing on the edge of the box rather than tracking or closing players in acres of space springs to mind.

[Millsy]

There have been limp displays under Gomes, and there were backs to the wall gutsy displays under Stam and Clement. It's just one of these cliches, like players not showing enough "passion".

Plenty witnesses to passion when we win, apparently there's none when we lose. But it's the same players.

its a bit of a bugbear of mine that. Show more passion etc.

I cant claim to know any footballers, but I very much doubt they lose games due to lack of effort. Maybe very occasionally and odd individuals more than others. The one who I genuinely thought wasn't trying in recent times was Chris Martin, and then you find out about the fact he was in bits physically and it explains a lot

Respectfully, I disagree. I'm sure all players try for personal pride and for love of the game if nothing else. But at this level often the difference is that extra 2-3% effort that makes you want to sprint that bit harder for the 50-50 ball. You can definitely tell when a player is just picking up a paycheque and doesn't want to risk injury, like Aluko who spent most of time standing around scratching his arse v the likes of Meite or Moore or (or Puscas v Fulham) battling like crazy. There's also what you DON'T see i.e all the training. It's not just about the 90mins on the pitch it's about the whole lifestyle diet, exercise, training attitude etc..

[URZZZZ]

There have been limp displays under Gomes, and there were backs to the wall gutsy displays under Stam and Clement. It's just one of these cliches, like players not showing enough "passion".

Plenty witnesses to passion when we win, apparently there's none when we lose. But it's the same players.

its a bit of a bugbear of mine that. Show more passion etc.

I cant claim to know any footballers, but I very much doubt they lose games due to lack of effort. Maybe very occasionally and odd individuals more than others. The one who I genuinely thought wasn't trying in recent times was Chris Martin, and then you find out about the fact he was in bits physically and it explains a lot

It’s an overused cliche but it’s still applicable. Do you think on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke people like Aluko, Barrow, Joao etc would be up for a fight as much as past players like Hunt, Mcanuff, Williams etc?

[genome]

No manager would ever resign in this day and age.

This aged well

[Old Man Andrews]

No manager would ever resign in this day and age.

This aged well

What did I miss?

[genome]

No manager would ever resign in this day and age.

This aged well

What did I miss?

Neil Harris resigned today

[Zip]

No manager would ever resign in this day and age.

This aged well

What did I miss?

Neil Harris has quit Millwall.

[Denver Royal]

This aged well

What did I miss?

Neil Harris resigned today

Cheeky bid?

[PremAddict]

We have employed a third successive manager who wants us to play out from the back when we don’t have the personnel to do it.
Rafael is a poor distributor of the ball. None of our defenders last night are good passers of the ball. They are so slow at moving the ball forward.
The problem is then compounded by our midfielders who often take far too long to release the ball and regularly cut back inside with momentum being lost. Compare this with how Fulham play. Quick, first time passes and excellent movement to go with it.

When you are at home on a poor run playing a footballing team surely you expect the players to press hard. Yet we stood back and allowed Fulham to play.

We need to go back to scratch. With Swift unavailable on Saturday Gomes can play Pele at CDM, Rinomhota as a CM and Ejaria at ACM. That should make us harder to break down but the whole style of play has to be addressed. We must move the ball forward more quickly and we should close down far more quickly and stop the ridiculous marking of space which leaves opposition players with loads of space at times.

Good point Zip. Even with Stamball or Gomeslottery at its best, playing it out at the back has always looked dodgy. Almost every game there are dodgy moments. What often happens is they press high, we try to play it out from the back , we panic hit it back to keeper who just smashes it up field anyway. Or one of our defenders decides to do that.

This is spot on. What is the purpose of playing from the back when you just give the ball away with a lump up the pitch anyway?

[Old Man Andrews]

This aged well

What did I miss?

Neil Harris resigned today

He's a head coach isn't he? Not a manager?

[Zip]

We have employed a third successive manager who wants us to play out from the back when we don’t have the personnel to do it.
Rafael is a poor distributor of the ball. None of our defenders last night are good passers of the ball. They are so slow at moving the ball forward.
The problem is then compounded by our midfielders who often take far too long to release the ball and regularly cut back inside with momentum being lost. Compare this with how Fulham play. Quick, first time passes and excellent movement to go with it.

When you are at home on a poor run playing a footballing team surely you expect the players to press hard. Yet we stood back and allowed Fulham to play.

We need to go back to scratch. With Swift unavailable on Saturday Gomes can play Pele at CDM, Rinomhota as a CM and Ejaria at ACM. That should make us harder to break down but the whole style of play has to be addressed. We must move the ball forward more quickly and we should close down far more quickly and stop the ridiculous marking of space which leaves opposition players with loads of space at times.

Good point Zip. Even with Stamball or Gomeslottery at its best, playing it out at the back has always looked dodgy. Almost every game there are dodgy moments. What often happens is they press high, we try to play it out from the back , we panic hit it back to keeper who just smashes it up field anyway. Or one of our defenders decides to do that.

This is spot on. What is the purpose of playing from the back when you just give the ball away with a lump up the pitch anyway?

It’s ridiculous. I don’t see any other team piddle around like we do. Yet we will carry on with this high risk low reward style of play