Gomes, Should he stay or should he go? Mk2

[royalp-we]

I don’t see how anyone can argue with any of that Ian. His record isn’t good at all, really.

In his post match interview Gomes said if we win one game, we can go on a long unbeaten run. He’s got absolutely nothing to back that up with.

[Denver Royal]

I don’t see how anyone can argue with any of that Ian.

Ha, someone just did. It was 23 games, not 26

[Zip]

When you are looking at a manager’s record you need to account what has gone on before. First half of last season pre Gomes 23 games and 19 points. So if he had failed to improve on that we would have gone down with 38 points or less.

So no one should expect impressive stats from such a low base. On the face of it 28 points from 23 games is very ordinary but set against the first half of last season it was a big improvement.

[Zip]

I don’t see how anyone can argue with any of that Ian.

Ha, someone just did. It was 23 games, not 26

Yep.

[krapmle]

we didn't stay up because of gomes, we stayed up because thankfully those around us were even worse.

For me its not about results. I saw my first Reading game in 1967. I have seen plenty of bad runs. I have also seen plenty of relegations.
What I don't see with this manager is any sign whatsoever of any improvement. We will be battling relegation again this season if this continues.

If there was even a small glimmer of something positive on the horizon I would give him time. There is nothing.
Relegation would be disastrous for this club. Stop the rot now while we still have a chance.

[Zip]

we didn't stay up because of gomes, we stayed up because thankfully those around us were even worse.

For me its not about results. I saw my first Reading game in 1967. I have seen plenty of bad runs. I have also seen plenty of relegations.
What I don't see with this manager is any sign whatsoever of any improvement. We will be battling relegation again this season if this continues.

If there was even a small glimmer of something positive on the horizon I would give him time. There is nothing.
Relegation would be disastrous for this club. Stop the rot now while we still have a chance.

Oh I see. So our PPG ratio considerably improved under Gomes last season but that is irrelevant

[krapmle]

considerably is a bit of an overstatement and even then its directly related to the opposition. All this statistical nonsense.
There is only one statistic that matters, goals scored more than goals conceded. Do that and you are on the right track

[Zip]

considerably is a bit of an overstatement and even then its directly related to the opposition. All this statistical nonsense.
There is only one statistic that matters, goals scored more than goals conceded. Do that and you are on the right track

9 points over half a season is considerable. The statistic that matters most of all is points gained.

[krapmle]

The statistic that matters most of all is points gained.

and how do you achieve that?

[Zip]

The statistic that matters most of all is points gained.

and how do you achieve that?

By doing what we did in the second half of last season. HTH.

[krapmle]

there is only one way. you need to score more often than the opposition.
something we are currently not very good at.

[Hound]

I think sacking the manager is both ineffective and not the sort of club I want us to be.

If we can get someone with a proven track record like Hughton or Hughes then that's one thing. But I suspect we'd just get another journeyman off the merry-go-round and be in the same position in 12 months. Stam was our chance to break the cycle but look what happened there.

Let's give someone a chance for once. Imagine if we'd sacked Coppell after that dreadful run in his second season?

That’s true of most clubs though. Doubt anyone wants to keep sacking managers - and personally was Stam in until it became untenable and likewise never called for Clarke, McD or Clement to go of the recent managers

With Gomes I just don’t think he’s the man. Terrible ppg now and I can’t see him turning it around. Nothing in his history suggests he will stay and evolve the club for the better

Obvs agree no point unless we’ve a proper experienced and solid manager lined up

If you don't want us to keep sacking managers, but do want us to sack the manager after every run of bad results, then you want us to keep sacking managers.

Not what I’m saying though

Don’t want us to keep sacking managers but no point keeping on someone imo who is clearly not up to the job. Or has any history of being up to the job

It’s not just one bad run, it’s nearly 40 games of underwhelming performances and results

But it’s not just that. It’s the naive comments in the press (we won’t lose another game), the constant chopping and changing of personnel and system without good reason, it’s the misuse of the players we do have

[Snowflake Royal]

So should we sack a manager every time we go on a bad run? This is his first bad run of results having done well to keep us up.

Depends on how bad the run is, how good we were before it and what the causes of the bad run are.

There's no mitigation for Gomes. He's been able to bring in a lot of players. He's had 20 odd games the previous season. There's no injury crisis. The problem isn't individual player errors, or a particularly weak individual.

It's not his first poor run either is it. He won 1 of his first 8 games last season.
He won 1 of his last 7 games of last season.

His Reading win rate across 37 games is under 25%

Let's face it, he didn't actually do that well in keeping us up in what you'd want to carry over into the next season did he. Yeah, he did it and it was a hard job, but he still only won 6 out of 26 odd games. And he's currently way off that level of performance.

If we say Gomes first match in charge was Millwall away on Boxing Day our record was W6, L7, D 10. So 28 points from 23 games which was a significant improvement on the first half of the season. We became a lot harder to beat.
So yeah he did do very well to keep us up. You had us as nailed on for relegation.

Apologies, I forgot to add Marshall's games in charge before taking Clement's away to get to Gomes.

6 in 23 as you say.

Let me rephrase it, Iveexpressed it badly. Forget about that being a good job to keep us up. Not disputed.

Would you be happy, going in to this season, with 1.2ppg and finishing on 56 points in about 17th?

I wouldn't really.

Now, baring in mind we are currently doing much worse than that, having had 23 games, a full pre-season and almost a dozen new signings, how do you feel 0.7 ppg, 34 points and finishing about 23rd?

We are currently doing worse, after much room for improvement, than narrowly surviving, when the target is at least lower mid table and the manager is talking about a target of 2 ppg. Is that acceptable? Does it show any reason to believe there will be significant improvement?

Gomes achieved what he did last season on feel good factor and 5 excellent loanees. The feel good factor is rapidly going, the tactics are worse and most of those loanees are gone.

Give me one good reason to have any faith Gomes won't take us down.

[Snowflake Royal]

Oh, and even more importantly, can do much better in L1 on mudbaths and against thuggish cloggers than he's did, let's say last season.

[Zip]

Depends on how bad the run is, how good we were before it and what the causes of the bad run are.

There's no mitigation for Gomes. He's been able to bring in a lot of players. He's had 20 odd games the previous season. There's no injury crisis. The problem isn't individual player errors, or a particularly weak individual.

It's not his first poor run either is it. He won 1 of his first 8 games last season.
He won 1 of his last 7 games of last season.

His Reading win rate across 37 games is under 25%

Let's face it, he didn't actually do that well in keeping us up in what you'd want to carry over into the next season did he. Yeah, he did it and it was a hard job, but he still only won 6 out of 26 odd games. And he's currently way off that level of performance.

If we say Gomes first match in charge was Millwall away on Boxing Day our record was W6, L7, D 10. So 28 points from 23 games which was a significant improvement on the first half of the season. We became a lot harder to beat.
So yeah he did do very well to keep us up. You had us as nailed on for relegation.

Apologies, I forgot to add Marshall's games in charge before taking Clement's away to get to Gomes.

6 in 23 as you say.

Let me rephrase it, Iveexpressed it badly. Forget about that being a good job to keep us up. Not disputed.

Would you be happy, going in to this season, with 1.2ppg and finishing on 56 points in about 17th?

I wouldn't really.

Now, baring in mind we are currently doing much worse than that, having had 23 games, a full pre-season and almost a dozen new signings, how do you feel 0.7 ppg, 34 points and finishing about 23rd?

We are currently doing worse, after much room for improvement, than narrowly surviving, when the target is at least lower mid table and the manager is talking about a target of 2 ppg. Is that acceptable? Does it show any reason to believe there will be significant improvement?

Gomes achieved what he did last season on feel good factor and 5 excellent loanees. The feel good factor is rapidly going, the tactics are worse and most of those loanees are gone.

Give me one good reason to have any faith Gomes won't take us down.

That’s a fair post. Don’t get me wrong I am very peed off with the team and tactics. Gomes should be doing considerably better although I’m not convinced the squad is anywhere near as good as some on here think.He is though to blame with his hopeless tactics.

Gomes has at least been involved in one previous relegation battle and came out of it on the right side so he is used to being under pressure.
He is not stupid. He will see why we keep failing.

I also think this constant cycle of sacking managers is taking us nowhere. I keep hearing Chris Hughton’s name being mentioned,. Yet we don’t know if the owners would want him or if he would want to come.

Perhaps we should look at Lee Johnson who was given time to turn things around after an appalling run.

[Hound]

Gomes is a short term fixer - last season was a relegation battle but the circumstances were different. He was given a team with some high quality loanees and managed to create a great spirit and do enough to see us through (we didn’t exactly smash it though did we? A few good away draws, some let’s be honest scraped home wins. And most of the things that we did well he’s binned off)

When it comes to actually creating a team and a long term game plan he’s fallen well short

[Snowflake Royal]

If the owners wouldn't want Hughton they're imbeciles.

I hate the cycle of manager sacking. But you can't stick with a failure just to break that cycle. You've got to have someone who can actually do it.

I can see an argument for sticking with Stam at the risk of relegation, he was a totally new manager.

I can see slim reason to stick with Clement. Results had and were slowly picking up.

Sacking McDermottv2 was a disgrace.

I think we pulled the trigger on Adkins too soon.

But all of these people either had a better track record, were more inexperienced, were showing some sign of improvement and / or had good mitigating factors like finances or injuries.

Rodgers had to go, and McDermottv1 proved why.

Clarke had to go, not only were results sliding hard, but he'd shown a lack of commitment to the club.

You can't let trying to avoid a managerial merrigoround be reason to hold onto someone who simply isn't good enough.

You don't sack the manager in February / March having been top six and sliding down to 15th. You do sack the manager who has never had a partucularly good run and is seeing you bottom three in October / November / December. Unless there are strong mitigating factors.

[Zip]

Gomes is a short term fixer - last season was a relegation battle but the circumstances were different. He was given a team with some high quality loanees and managed to create a great spirit and do enough to see us through (we didn’t exactly smash it though did we? A few good away draws, some let’s be honest scraped home wins)

When it comes to actually creating a team and a long term game plan he’s fallen well short

Oh come on Houndy. We got lucky against Wigan but we played well against the likes of Preston, Forest and Brentford. How on earth was Gomes expected to smash it from such a low base? We were five points away from safety on New Years Day yet ended seven points clear in the end. Let’s not rewrite history here.
He did well last season.

As for creating a team and having a long term game plan we are eleven games in FFS.

[URZZZZ]

Gomes' "philisophy" was nonsense last season. It was slow and dull to watch and we weren't winning games. It took a thrashing by Leeds for Gomes to realise it wasn't working and he changed his gameplay from possession based to counter football. Which worked. We beat Preston, we beat Brentford, we drew to Norwich, WBA and Bristol, Meite was scoring for fun

Yet for some reason, he's gone back to his old ways. We're aimlessly passing around the back, there's no penetration going forward and we only get one or two good chances a game. Whilst playing on the counter isn't the most exciting to watch, it helped us get results last season and if Gomes wants to keep his job, he may have to do it again

[URZZZZ]

If the owners wouldn't want Hughton they're imbeciles.

I hate the cycle of manager sacking. But you can't stick with a failure just to break that cycle. You've got to have someone who can actually do it.

I can see an argument for sticking with Stam at the risk of relegation, he was a totally new manager.

I can see slim reason to stick with Clement. Results had and were slowly picking up.

Sacking McDermottv2 was a disgrace.

I think we pulled the trigger on Adkins too soon.

But all of these people either had a better track record, were more inexperienced, were showing some sign of improvement and / or had good mitigating factors like finances or injuries.

Rodgers had to go, and McDermottv1 proved why.

Clarke had to go, not only were results sliding hard, but he'd shown a lack of commitment to the club.

You can't let trying to avoid a managerial merrigoround be reason to hold onto someone who simply isn't good enough.

You don't sack the manager in February / March having been top six and sliding down to 15th. You do sack the manager who has never had a partucularly good run and is seeing you bottom three in October / November / December. Unless there are strong mitigating factors.

Results were picking up with Rodgers tbf